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  1. #1

    Default Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Hi everyone,

    So this is my first post. I've been a long time visitor of the diy forum during my two years of perfumery studies...after my many years of perfume addiction. 😊 I've come pretty far in these past two years and have loved every minute of it. I wanted to say thanks to the many regulars of the diy section like C. Bartlett, P. Kiler, D. Ruskin, J. Frater, Mumzy, etc, etc, etc. Your posts have answered quite a lot of my questions throughout the course of my studies, and I just wanted to officially say I appreciate it.

    Now, on to my question. I've tried for some time now to find any information on the methods of achieving the odor of tobacco blossom in perfume, with no success. Has anybody ever attempted a tobacco blossom accord? I have a feeling it's just a fantasy note that may not even be an accord in a finished perfume, but more of an idea for the person smelling to sense is there. Nonetheless, an actual accord for the blossom is just so enticing. I've attempted a few times... I just can't seem to find the right notes for the accord to sing. Any help would be appreciated. Again, thanks for everything.

    -Modest Mike

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Have you retrieved this report?

    Headspace compounds from flowers of Nicotiana tabacum and related species

    • February 1990
    • Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 38(2)



    • DOI
    • 10.1021/jf00092a027






    Abstract:

    Volatile compounds from flowers of four lines of tobacco, KY 14, TI 1068, TI 1112, and TI 1406, were entrained in air and trapped on Tenax. Each headspace sample was eluted with hexane and separated by capillary GC, and the components were analyzed by GC-MS. Total yields of volatiles ranged from approximately 600 to 900 ppb, which was 30-100 times greater than those from foliage of the corresponding plants. Caryophyllene was the predominant compound in three lines and a major component in the fourth, TI 1068. Studies of volatiles from five other Nicotiana species, Nicotiana alata, Nicotiana rustica, Nicotiana suaveolens, Nicotiana sylvestris, and Nicotiana tomentosiformis, showed that total volatile yields ranged from 88 ppb for N. rustica to 2424 ppb for N. sylvestris. There was wide diversity in the composition of compounds from the various species studied. N. tomentosiformis and N. sylvestris, which are putative male and female progenitors of tobacco, respectively, yielded several compounds also identified as tobacco flower headspace components
    Last edited by pkiler; 12th February 2018 at 11:07 PM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Hi there, so here are my thoughts. There is such a thing as a tobacco blossom. I have smelled tobacco flower before and it smells like a squash flower. Not much to write home about IMO. There is Nicotiana flowering tobacco which I have not smelled.
    However, fantasy wise this is a rich area. Tobacco blossom should smell like tobacco but also have a floral component. Since it is a nicotine plant you can argue that it has a narcotic leaning for your flower. Which kind of narcotic though? I'd vote something that stimulates the trigeminal nerve, something anisic, or something sensual, also maybe along the lines of orange flower. Indolic without using indole, but also indole. I'd avoid urinous or fecal notes for this. If you look at perfumes that have tobacco blossom as a note they frequently have vanilla and of course, the coumarinic tones are still there. But you don't want it to smell heavy. So maybe touches of methyl salicylate. Maybe, some green smell to it. I'm picturing something like ylang/hyacinth.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Arctander's description of the flower (not the absolute which is scarcely, if at all, available):

    "The fragrance of this flower [Nicotiana affinis] is extremely delicate, yet rich and sweet, spicy-floral, somewhat reminiscent of carnation with a fresher note, almost fruity. The white/pink phlox and the “sweet William”, well known garden perennials, may even better describe the main odor type of the tobacco flower."

    It sounds like you might start with a carnation accord.

    Interesting project; what has been your approach? (Only if you want to tell us.)

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    It might not be what you had in mind, but I’ve grown Nicotiana alata before and, on a warm summer evening, they have a very diffusive, though subtle scent. A strong impression of salicylates (i.e. benzyl, hexyl or cis-3-hexenyl-), sometimes with a cresylic undertone (like para cresyl phenyl acetate).

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    I have one fragrance with tobacco flower in the list of notes, and it’s the only one I’ve ever seen. It was put out by Tommy Bahama as a unisex fragrance back in 2010, but it didn’t last long and was discontinued. Now, it is probably one of the hardest fragrances to find.

    The name of the fragrance was Vintage Paradise. In addition to the tobacco flower, it also had orange blossom, patchouli, and honeysuckle...with clean and citrusy top notes of bergamot. Some reviews also list coffee bean as an ingredient.

    This was an unusual fragrance, indeed, but I love it.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Thanks for your response Paul. It’s kind of funny all the reading and searching I’ve done about your business and your thoughts on perfumery and it’s taken me this long to finally speak with you. I have seen that before but I could never find the study on a site where I can actually read it. I tried subscribing to ACS in hopes that I could read the article then, to no avail. I hoped I could find the information elsewhere without having to spend money to read the article. I especially didn’t want to rent the article and find out most of the volatiles aren’t available to the average guy. But thank you for taking the time to reply

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    RSG and Alysoun,
    Thanks for responding. I have read Arctander’s description on tobacco blossom and saved it in my notes, but I guess my biggest problem is I’ve never smelled the flower myself. I can see an isoeugenol/Eugenol, carnation note probably being present in the flowers given the dank, subtle spice in tobacco absolute. I’ve tried a few of the notes RSG mentioned such as the methyl salicylate, in minute amounts like I’d use in a tuberose accord, and coumarin, BCNLactone, koumalactone, and indolene instead of indole for its floral backbone. I just can’t seem to find that right balance. It may just take me some more tries and approaches, which is fine. As we know, perfume is all about time.

    I decided to ask everybody what they thought because I imagined I wasn’t the only person who admired the thought-aroma of this flower. Tobacco Vanille is supposed to have a tobacco blossom note, as well as Tobacco Nuit by Atelier. I haven’t smelled Vintage Paradise though. Renegade’s thoughts sounds promising. I recently got Sakura Salicylate (because who doesn’t love cherry blossom-I even have a pair of shoes with cherry blossom trees printed all over them) and paired it with Cis 3 hexenyl salicylate, Cis 3 hexenyl Tiglate and a narcisse base for the skeleton of a damp, green, dew soaked vegetal-floral accord. Just a start, but I can see where your coming from Renegade.

    Thanks for all the tips and suggestions so far guys. It’s nice to finally chat it up with all of you.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by ModestMike View Post
    Thanks for your response Paul. It’s kind of funny all the reading and searching I’ve done about your business and your thoughts on perfumery and it’s taken me this long to finally speak with you. I have seen that before but I could never find the study on a site where I can actually read it. I tried subscribing to ACS in hopes that I could read the article then, to no avail. I hoped I could find the information elsewhere without having to spend money to read the article. I especially didn’t want to rent the article and find out most of the volatiles aren’t available to the average guy. But thank you for taking the time to reply

    Often, these journals are available to read and download, from a University Library computer. (Free, usually, but for parking costs...)

    I keep a running Word file of these things, and then when I know I am heading towards the University, I print out my shopping list and take a Flash drive with me to download and bring them home... I've tried to ask some Univ friends to do this for me, but has not really worked out very well.
    While I'm on the Univ Computer, I often find more journal articles of interest as well, which is always fun.

    I do have another journal study, of comparative analysis of Tobacco Flowers GC results for nine separate coffee flower subspecies, for both night and day emissions. I think it is for moth pollination studies.

    It is very extensive, and rumbles on for seven pages of volatile emissions from all nine species. It's a bit of a chore to plow through.
    I have not really worked on it yet, I have just simply acquired it (8/2015) for future research.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    That’s actually a good method for the madness that is research, Paul. Perhaps I’ll follow suit and try my luck at the local university libraries and see what I can find. Do you have your email tied to a university like Researchgate states they need in order for verification that “you are indeed a researcher”? I mean, aren’t we all researchers in some regard?...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by ModestMike View Post
    That’s actually a good method for the madness that is research, Paul. Perhaps I’ll follow suit and try my luck at the local university libraries and see what I can find. Do you have your email tied to a university like Researchgate states they need in order for verification that “you are indeed a researcher”? I mean, aren’t we all researchers in some regard?...
    I use my wife's old Univ email to get docs on Researchgate, when I can...
    Paul Kiler
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    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by Alysoun View Post
    Arctander's description of the flower (not the absolute which is scarcely, if at all, available):

    "The fragrance of this flower [Nicotiana affinis] is extremely delicate, yet rich and sweet, spicy-floral, somewhat reminiscent of carnation with a fresher note, almost fruity. The white/pink phlox and the “sweet William”, well known garden perennials, may even better describe the main odor type of the tobacco flower."

    It sounds like you might start with a carnation accord.

    Interesting project; what has been your approach? (Only if you want to tell us.)
    There is a brand on my island that is working in all kind of Tobacco scents. We live surrounded by Tobacco, the description above is very close to the smell of this perfume https://www.instagram.com/p/BdjQs1Zn...mariamagdalena

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by ModestMike View Post
    RSG and Alysoun,
    Thanks for responding. I have read Arctander’s description on tobacco blossom and saved it in my notes, but I guess my biggest problem is I’ve never smelled the flower myself. I can see an isoeugenol/Eugenol, carnation note probably being present in the flowers given the dank, subtle spice in tobacco absolute. I’ve tried a few of the notes RSG mentioned such as the methyl salicylate, in minute amounts like I’d use in a tuberose accord, and coumarin, BCNLactone, koumalactone, and indolene instead of indole for its floral backbone. I just can’t seem to find that right balance. It may just take me some more tries and approaches, which is fine. As we know, perfume is all about time.

    I decided to ask everybody what they thought because I imagined I wasn’t the only person who admired the thought-aroma of this flower. Tobacco Vanille is supposed to have a tobacco blossom note, as well as Tobacco Nuit by Atelier. I haven’t smelled Vintage Paradise though. Renegade’s thoughts sounds promising. I recently got Sakura Salicylate (because who doesn’t love cherry blossom-I even have a pair of shoes with cherry blossom trees printed all over them) and paired it with Cis 3 hexenyl salicylate, Cis 3 hexenyl Tiglate and a narcisse base for the skeleton of a damp, green, dew soaked vegetal-floral accord. Just a start, but I can see where your coming from Renegade.

    Thanks for all the tips and suggestions so far guys. It’s nice to finally chat it up with all of you.
    It sounds like you really need to smell the flower. Would it be practicable to order some seeds and try to grow it?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    You can d/l Headspace Compounds from Flowers of Nicotiana tabacum and Related Species from HERE
    Last edited by julian35; 13th February 2018 at 04:18 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post
    You can d/l Headspace Compounds from Flowers of Nicotiana tabacum and Related Species from HERE
    Thanks Julian!
    Wow, that's gonna take some math to figure that out...!

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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Just an aside, but anyone who doesn't know Nicotiana affinis (alata) or Nicotiana sylvestris - both closely related to N. tabacum - should get their noses on some. Seeds and plugs are easy to come by and easy to grow. The scent, especially on warm summer evenings (the flowers close in direct sun), is pervasive and narcotic, sweet and spicy/peppery. N. alata is sometimes known as 'jasmine tobacco'.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    I'm inspired to give this a try also. Will download link. Keep in mind you can export pdf tables into excel or google sheets. Put the data into columns, clean it up, sum and median the numbers and have all the math done for you. Still a bit time consuming but not as much as doing it any other way! And as an aside I've been doing a lot of carb free baking so I went to save the file as tobacco flour :P

  18. #18

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by Alysoun View Post
    It sounds like you really need to smell the flower. Would it be practicable to order some seeds and try to grow it?
    Right now it’s winter here in Wisconsin but I could try an indoor grow. I know tobacco needs warm air and plenty of light which we sadly lack this time of year here. But it would be an interesting challenge

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post
    You can d/l Headspace Compounds from Flowers of Nicotiana tabacum and Related Species from HERE
    Wow thank you Julian! Great find!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Just an aside, but anyone who doesn't know Nicotiana affinis (alata) or Nicotiana sylvestris - both closely related to N. tabacum - should get their noses on some. Seeds and plugs are easy to come by and easy to grow. The scent, especially on warm summer evenings (the flowers close in direct sun), is pervasive and narcotic, sweet and spicy/peppery. N. alata is sometimes known as 'jasmine tobacco'.
    You make a good point...I need to definitely get my nose on some before I try to take on the challenge. Thanks for the description as well. It sounds beautiful

  21. #21

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Thanks Julian!
    Wow, that's gonna take some math to figure that out...!

    PK
    LOL, yes agreed Paul... but I am not surprised to see what I believe are large amounts of eugenol, (Z)-jasmone and methyl salicylate in there. It fits the Nicotiana odour profile I experience each year on warm summer evenings in our back yard.
    Also reminisent of the tiny purple flower of Night Scented Stock.

    These warm evening scents are narcotic, erotic and very unique.
    Last edited by julian35; 13th February 2018 at 11:24 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    I'm a fan of the "tobacco blossom" note. I have AC Tobacco Nuit and Bouddica Wode, and both are supposed to have a prominent tobacco blossom note.

    That said, in blind test (without being influenced by the name of a frag or its notes) it is clear that this Tobacco blossom note is simply coriander supported by cumin, rounded by a woody/resinous background.
    Other tips:
    - strawberry= sugar+truffle
    - coca-cola= cardamom+lemon+cinnamon
    - mango= pepper+apricot
    - church incense= pine+pepper

    Hope it helps!

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Tobacco blossom/Tobacco Flower

    Coriander is mostly Linalool.
    Paul Kiler
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    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.




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