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  1. #31

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    I spoke on this at length a while back, its quite easy to discern the truth once you start joining the dots:

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    Do we, collectively, know anything about the true identity of whoever made it as I don't believe for a moment that anyone at Creed is anywhere near as capable of making this and as such am firmly in the camp that this was a ghosted composition with its true author choosing to forego fame/recognition for this one in exchange for a quiet (and large) royalty cheque. Why do I think that? Simple, in 2003 Ralph Lauren dropped Purple Label and the scent is to Aventus what this outline is to the Mona Lisa:


    Its a very basic outline, work in progress sketch which by itself is nothing significant but once you've experienced this:


    All of a sudden you can spot the prototype in the first sketch and that is exactly what it smells like to me. A rough draft, work in progress, barebones version of Aventus that was captured, bottled and released to the public whilst the nose kept it on back burner and tinkered with it for another few years and then it was gifted to the world as Aventus. Inhaling the RL scent allows you to pick out the raw, basic character of Aventus and it seems blatantly obvious, to me at least, that whoever made that also made Aventus as you can always spot an artist in his output and it is coincidentally credited to Firmenich. So whoever the mystery nose was who made Aventus and chose to remain in the shadows for whatever reason, I salute thee.
    Also its pretty much an "open secret" amongst the creative types in the industry as to who actually made the scent but until they prove it by sending me a sample of the alleged original version of Aventus (which was never released as what we got was apparently downgraded and tweaked for various reasons before its initial production run) with its extra bells and whistles then I'll take it with a pinch of salt because said person has never confirmed or denied it which makes sense but still...

    Also, ghosting is super common in loads of industries from your favourite book being written by someone whose name isn't on the jacket to designs being made by some person per hour which are then rebranded as another as well as the well known music industry shenanigans. Girl... You know its true!




  2. #32

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    So what? People improve things over time by innovating an older product and turning a few knobs, people lip sync to sound better live, there's artificial ingredients in most candy and food you eat and now chemicals in perfume that smell just like the essential oils but with lasting performance. Nothing is sacred these days. Aventus wasn't some kind of miracle, it's a product of many prior perfumes, just as tvs and smart phones are improved over time.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    So what? People improve things over time by innovating an older product and turning a few knobs, people lip sync to sound better live, there's artificial ingredients in most candy and food you eat and now chemicals in perfume that smell just like the essential oils but with lasting performance. Nothing is sacred these days.


  4. #34

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    No, I get what you're saying I just don't believe people would take money to remain in the shadows over having a legacy, being remembered. I don't want to jump down the rabbit hole of what ifs, I will stand by my beliefs that things improve over time naturally and at lower cost. Yes this means that somebody will have a cheaper nearly identical copy of Aventus soon enough. I don't know when but likely within a decade, perhaps even an improvement. (As crazy as that seems)

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Of Course people take money to remain in the shadows...
    The Perfumers working for Roja Dove also do the same... They are sworn to secrecy... to keep their paycheck...

    I've just been told that my endowment of formulas given to me also includes the formula for Elizabeth Arden Red Door. Do you think anyone but a handful of people know who the perfumer was? Honestly, I didn't know it was in there, now I'll have to work out where the formula is...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Conversation over, I'm not going to argue my points anymore. Continue believing what you want to believe, I came here to learn about crafting Aventus from OP.
    Last edited by SharpLess; 6th August 2018 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    No, I get what you're saying I just don't believe people would take money to remain in the shadows over having a legacy, being remembered. I don't want to jump down the rabbit hole of what ifs, I will stand by my beliefs that things improve over time naturally and at lower cost. Yes this means that somebody will have a cheaper nearly identical copy of Aventus soon enough. I don't know when but likely within a decade, perhaps even an improvement. (As crazy as that seems)
    You'd be surprised... Especially in a game that is as image driven as niche fragrances, an aspect that Creed plays to the hilt with their stories. All you have to do is watch an interview with the Creeds and you'll see how they get when it comes to the creative process but all that is by the by because the whole "Creed don't make scents" thing had been trumpeted since way back (consider how almost all of their scents have a lower priced/quality equivalent sold by many different big name designers and do the math) but for me the smoking gun was smelling Purple Label as due to synesthesia my olfactive senses are wired differently to the usual and thus I can "see" the fragrance as well as smell it and PL contains the exact same "shape" as Aventus (which makes batch variations very interesting and all clones laughable in comparison as two perceptual modalities are better than one) but in a very rudimentary, basic structure hence my prototype comment.

    The fact that it was credited to Firmenich and on the market 7 years before Aventus is proof enough to me that there was one nose behind both of them and given how close Creeds relationship with Firmenich is it makes perfect sense that they'd find someone to front a company whilst they did all the work on the back end, ala Milli Vaniili, in exchange for an easy cheque.

    People not in the business often can't understand this aspect at all because the average Joe clamors for fame, recognition and the acclaim of strangers but once you've been around the block a couple of times you realize that whilst those in front of the camera change with the times those behind it always remain the same and thus what better way for someone older, more experienced and capable to capitalize on their talent (which given that Aventus is made from a handful of ingredients that are expertly arranged is another facet that eludes to it being created by someone who knows their way around a lab and has decades of experience composing perfumes - and thus already has a legacy - as getting complicated is easy, simplicity takes skill) than by giving someone else a head start in a profit sharing arrangement that allows both parties to win, especially if they're old friends

    Strange as it may sound I've seen it happen time and time again in the music industry as at one point in the 90s/00s there was one guy producing pretty much everyones tunes and the vast majority of so called "producers" were paying him handsomely to make their tracks so they could front in the videos, score with the chicks and land lucrative placements for songs they couldn't create in a lifetime that my man was knocking out in 15 minutes. It is what it is.

    You most likely will not see something that betters Aventus within a decade, consider Acqua di Gio which was its equivalent in the 90s but still hasn't been cloned successfully to this day and ask yourself why and you'll discover the answers so I'll sign off now by saying you're free to your own opinion and I have no intent to browbeat you with mine as scent is the most subjective sense ever and even though I know a little bit about a little bit when it comes to fragrances I know a heck of a lot about a heck of lot when it comes to business and to me the picture is clear as a sniff as to what actually goes on behind the image when it comes to the reality of this fragrance for the above outlined and many other little reasons that all align to point toward my perspective, none of which prevent or impede my enjoyment of the fragrance as it is - whoever made it.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    Conversation over, I'm not going to argue my points anymore. Continue believing what you want to believe, I came here to learn about crafting Aventus from OP.
    Just read this after I'd posted my reply and it sounds like you've thrown your toys out of the pram because of what PK said. Maybe you should step back and ask yourself why you're so invested in the Creed image, psychologically speaking? Oh, yes - thats why:

    Because thats what it was created to do.

    Shame that the conversations over as I could've easily told you what they did to create their birch accord but hey, be a man and stick to your word

  9. #39

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    Just read this after I'd posted my reply and it sounds like you've thrown your toys out of the pram because of what PK said. Maybe you should step back and ask yourself why you're so invested in the Creed image, psychologically speaking? Oh, yes - thats why:

    Because thats what it was created to do.

    Shame that the conversations over as I could've easily told you what they did to create their birch accord but hey, be a man and stick to your word
    That's rich. You had an ulterior motive to prove me wrong not impart wisdom upon thee.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    That's rich.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    Shame that the conversations over as I could've easily told you what they did to create their birch accord but hey, be a man and stick to your word
    Not that I WANT to step in this conversation, but I'll happily listen if you're talking about the birch accord.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbchi33 View Post
    Not that I WANT to step in this conversation, but I'll happily listen if you're talking about the birch accord.

    Seeing as you asked so nicely I'll share a private email I received from Olivier:

    Quote Originally Posted by masterperfumer86@creed.eu
    "First you must carefully pluck the bark from the sacred grove of birch trees in Buenaventura on a moonless night as you're dressed totally in white spandex whilst reciting the appropriate verse from the Necronomicon backwards and in Swahili and then, after twirling around thrice with closed open eyes you must delicately place this fine specimen within the confines of a mill made of solid gold and Valerian steel that is powered by not one, not two but three unicorns (pink preferable as used on our best batches but we have occasionally used other hues on an ad hoc basis) that have been raised on a diet of nothing but the finest Vril and sired directly from the seed of Pegasus in an unbroken lineage for a period of not less than 96 hours at which point you must introduce it into an aqueous solution formed with 4 parts Henri IV Dudognon Heritage and a generous slug of cheap cola per gram of birch and allow the slurry to develop until at least 3 leap years have passed at which point you simply make an offering to the gods, old and new, using said solution, remove the excess, dilute down to your desired ratio and then place directly into your fragrance to generate an unforgettable "dirty yet clean" je ne sais quoi. Now don't tell anyone I told you, OK?"
    It must be true because Creed said so!

  13. #43

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    I'll be here to discuss the original topic but I'm not discussing anything about ghost perfumers and Creed free masons.

  14. #44

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    Seeing as you asked so nicely I'll share a private email I received from Olivier:



    It must be true because Creed said so!
    Who HASN’T done it that way?

  15. #45

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Original aventus contains a lot of patchoulol and more than 10% ambrox.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by jfrater View Post
    Original aventus contains a lot of patchoulol and more than 10% ambrox.
    Cool how did you find that out?

  17. #47

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    Cool how did you find that out?
    I know the perfumer who created it—not a Creed family member

  18. #48

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Ive parsed out the top note accord of apple, pineapple, bergamot and lemon to make it easier. Here is where I am and it is actually pretty well balanced:
    DHM 4.500 100
    Lemon Oil 2.200 100
    Bergamot 4.000 100
    Dynascone 2.000 10
    Manzanate 1.000 100
    aag 0.200 100
    limonene 65 2.000 10
    Allyl Heptoanate 0.200 100
    Ethyl Butyrate 1.000 10
    verdox 1.000 10
    Lemonile 2.000 10
    Citral 0.200 10
    Pharaone 0.330 10

  19. #49

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    Cool how did you find that out?

    This forum has a really useful search feature... and most if not all of this has been covered before, and there are more answers there too.


  20. #50

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Hey tuscaloosatanning, is there a particular Aventus batch you are using as a reference?

  21. #51

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by jfrater View Post
    I know the perfumer who created it—not a Creed family member

  22. #52

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by runstile View Post
    This forum has a really useful search feature... and most if not all of this has been covered before, and there are more answers there too.
    Thanks I will dig a little deeper

  23. #53

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    I don't know the batch code of the Aventus I had as it is was a decant. It is definitely a fruitier batch. Smoke is not really perceptible,

  24. #54

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Nope! I feel like Edison...There are 1000 ways to not make a good smelling fragrance

  25. #55

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Too much Lemonile or Pharaone possibly. Its agregic. Ill add slowly

  26. #56

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Good luck, let us know what has worked the best so far. What's the successful starting framework etc. I'll be joining you pretty soon once I get my necessary ingredients and the money involved, I already have a plan in place kind of. You should checkout the ingredient SYLVAMBER (ISO E and Timbersilk blend according to one reviewer on creatingperfume) apparently it has more depth and is more detectable. VANILLIN ACETATE is a nice vanilla, really creamy reminds me of Aventus (powder form only I believe). Ethyl Vanillin has a bit too much caramel and is more gourmand leaning. Also CETALOX is apparently a big part of the picture 9% or so according to pkiler's GC. And lastly 2-isobutyl quinoline is considered an older smelling woody leather chem that some say could be the missing piece, I can't find any small quantities available for sale though.

  27. #57

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    The top note blend is growing on me and has settled. I have solicited three other opinions and they were all positive. It may be the DHM that is influencing the blend as it is a bit "cleaner" like. I'm going to to try one iteration with the DHm backed down and another with the Lemonile and Pharaone removed then added slowly. Thanks for the help guys!

  28. #58
    Super Member MNX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    That's a massive list (=expensive) for a fragrance that is not particularly complex or sophisticated.
    "Perfume is a form of writing, an ink, a choice made in the first person, the dot on the i, a weapon, a courteous gesture, part of the instant, a consequence." ...

  29. #59

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    The top note blend is growing on me and has settled. I have solicited three other opinions and they were all positive. It may be the DHM that is influencing the blend as it is a bit "cleaner" like. I'm going to to try one iteration with the DHm backed down and another with the Lemonile and Pharaone removed then added slowly. Thanks for the help guys!

  30. #60

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by MNX View Post
    That's a massive list (=expensive) for a fragrance that is not particularly complex or sophisticated.
    I agree it might be a pretty simple blend, but simple in perfumery terms is around 30 ingredients so I would say he's in the lower middle end of the spectrum at around 40 ish. Hardly massive. Not sophisticated? Aventus is probably the most sophisticated chypre fruity scent in the game, quite the feat.




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