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  1. #61

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by tuscaloosatanning View Post
    The top note blend is growing on me and has settled. I have solicited three other opinions and they were all positive. It may be the DHM that is influencing the blend as it is a bit "cleaner" like. I'm going to to try one iteration with the DHm backed down and another with the Lemonile and Pharaone removed then added slowly. Thanks for the help guys!
    Progress.
    Hedione HC is something you should look into, has a double bond with paridisone in it to get that smoother richer jasmine.
    Last edited by SharpLess; 15th August 2018 at 09:41 AM.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    I wonder how many "creative types" are going to read this thread and release another fragrance based on Tuscas work? You could call it Adentures because no doubt it will be toothless.... I keed, I keed


    Tusca - your formula seems really over complicated but if you had to compare Aventus on one hand and your creation on the other what would you give it in a marks out of ten style? Either way I really appreciate the effort that you've put into this and how you've documented your progress as I think cloning this scent is like pushing a boulder up a hill based on whats used in the original that can't be bought and how the shortcuts you've got to take to approximate erode into the limited space you've got to play with plus with modern restrictions even Creed can't create anything that is even close to 80% comparable to the fragrance in its heyday so that speaks volumes about the intrinsic challenge.

    That said its always fun to play, so enjoy!

  3. #63

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Right now Palm, I would rank it a 2. I have strayed to far from my initial accord. Im now removing ingredients for which I don't properly understand how they interact with other ingredients or I don't know their function. Im also going to remove ingredients for which I added because I like the way they smell, but I am unsure of their effect on the blend.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    It isn't fit for a "scrubber" right now. I'm going to simplify dramatically and then begin to add my ac's one at a time

  5. #65

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by tuscaloosatanning View Post
    Right now Palm, I would rank it a 2. I have strayed to far from my initial accord. Im now removing ingredients for which I don't properly understand how they interact with other ingredients or I don't know their function. Im also going to remove ingredients for which I added because I like the way they smell, but I am unsure of their effect on the blend.
    Thanks for your honesty, if I may suggest:

    Strip the formula right back to the essentials. I'm talking so far down that it smells pretty much like an outline and then take the components you are using and reduce those again until they too are at the point where you are using as little as possible to get the effect you desire and then create a list of everything else you had and rank it as a 1, 2 or 3 ranging from essential to superfluous and start adding back in the 1s using the same methodology outlined above and so on and so forth.

    I think you may be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Since I have parsed out the top note accord here are the ingredients I have removed to simplify:

    Top note accord 0.660 100 0.6600 0.5693%
    Tonalide 1.000 100 1.0000 0.8625%
    Muscone 0.500 100 0.5000 0.4313%
    Cashmeran 0.800 100 0.8000 0.6900%
    Precyclemone B 0.100 100 0.1000 0.0863%
    Cosmone 0.300 100 0.3000 0.2588%
    Amyl Salicylate 0.300 100 0.3000 0.2588%

  7. #67

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Got some stuff in the mail, most notably BERGAMOT (Givaudan) 104 is an absolute stunner, smells like the tart bergamot of Aventus (careful it's strong). Allyl Cyclohexyl Propionate is also a really good waxy pineapple characteristic, and Pharaone (Givaudan) is similar but has a more supple character to it. I am quite disappointed by Pyralone but I can see it being a good backbone for woody notes to bring up a leather accord, has an almost green bell pepper / nutty quality.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Just a thought but have you considered that Creed, wanting to keep their marketplace advantage, has held back an essential captive exclusively for themselves? Similar ingredients are made available to other companies but not the exact same. I don't think its by chance that Ferrari and Mercedes are currently dominating Formula 1 racing in both driver and constructors championships. Both manufacters provide engines to other teams but they aren't the same engines they use in their own team cars. They keep that advantage for themselves and its why they win as often as they do (the drivers obviously contribute Aventus is no different and unfortunately I foresee it being a long old time before someone gets close to their flagship scent. Keep them coming though as somewhere out there will be an amateur perfumer that sees the scent like 'The One' sees 'The Code' and constructs it molecule by molecule...and maybe even without any captives at all.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Troll somewhere else Sheik. Ive seen you copy and paste this elsewhere here. I'm unsure what you are even trying to say in your post. Does it offer value that I can't glean?

  10. #70

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    The thing I feel the need to state here is that even if Aventus uses all these molecules and even if blueberry needs isovalerates. It's still possible to make a blueberry perfume without isovalerates that are perfectly characteristic fresh and charming that I quite enjoy. Which means that an Aventus inspired creation that will make someone happy is possible without every specific molecule.

    And even more so I want to argue that we should not aim to become ultra-commercial Aventus perfumers or ultra-professional Nascar drivers. There are reasons to be dissatisfied with them and limitations they suffer under and so we are attempting our own paths.

    Sometimes and especially, in the beginning, all you should be doing is pleasing yourself or even garnering a compliment from a stranger. That's it.

    I have a very high-end perfume I make for myself with the theme of Perry Ellis and oak wood and oakmoss. My wife was wearing a summery sweet citrus perfume I made her. At the Dr. office, 3 separate people complimented us on how our combined smells were so pleasant, clean and filled the room. I at first worried that we were nose blind sillage monsters accidentally. I was reassured no no it's just right and was also told I can only know I smell it by comparing to the other rooms I'm going in and out of.

    I'm a happy amateur nose

    And one day, not yet, I hope to make myself happy with my Aventus inspiration.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    @RSG Here here. I wish you best of luck on your creations.

    I am just looking to have fun and find an alternative way to enjoy a fragrance I probably shouldn't buy as often as I do. I probably won't be able to please myself as much as this masterpiece but knowing I can possibly come close is reassuring, let it be known I have already poured many hours into researching every aroma chemical I possibly can, and spending a handsome buck a few times a month on sets of aroma chemicals. And I know I am still not even close to being ready to create an Aventus inspiration, I will start with small apples combining two maybe three aroma chems to find a pleasing accord and work my way up. I think the trick for me will be messing with other perfumes and finding out what makes them tick better than they already do. Then maybe I can start a perfume from scratch, but by no means am I going for an exact duplicate of Aventus. I will likely focus on my favorite aspects of my favorite batches and try to weld them together. It will be a journey and I might fail, but it's just one of many hobbies of mine and some hobbies die hard. We will see

  12. #72

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    If it continues giving you problems keep in mind you could change your work method and make even more accords and bases and see if that gets you closer to all of the nuance you want.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by tuscaloosatanning View Post
    Troll somewhere else Sheik. Ive seen you copy and paste this elsewhere here. I'm unsure what you are even trying to say in your post. Does it offer value that I can't glean?

    I was merely stating that its not as though they are just using ingredients available to everyone. They use captives that others don't have access to. Maybe instead of going at the problem with brute force, some out the box thinking might be appropriate. For example there was a Ted talk by Luca Turin years ago where he talked about the way scent molecules are structured and a way to recreate them and the way we smell 'molecular vibrations'.

    You said 'I had copied and pasted this elsewhere here'. Where?

    The reason you posted was to overcome a problem that you thought someone could contribute toward finding a solution for. I didn't appreciate your flippant comment accusing me of trolling. I don't troll and am here to offer better understanding to those that know less and learn from and be grateful to those who know more and contribute. By discussing we all garner some understanding whether we realise it at the time or not. Without talking you don't know whether you will glean from the exchange or not. Did I say anything hateful or untrue in my previous post or have I been impolite? I have said all I have to say on the matter and won't comment in the thread again except to defend myself.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    You weren't being rude, it's just that speculating about captives and molecule manipulation/vibrations isn't what this thread was intended for, it's just out of place. There are plenty of threads for such a discussion. We aren't lab technicians or chemists, just bedroom perfumers using our wit and what is available to us plebeians to make accords that capture nuances of Aventus. All the talk about those things we cannot control just bogs down the excitement of the creators in here. C-ya on the batch discussion thread!

  15. #75

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Sorry if I was rude. I just didn't understand what you were saying

  16. #76

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Apparently the ambrettolide we want is another version called Scentolide (Synarome) from Ventos used by niche houses and probably Creed.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    ^This is correct. You would want to use Dextro Helvetolide as well, but unfortunately it is unavailable. The Ambrox used is unavailable, the form of Hedione used is unavailable (I will not disclose its trademarked trivial name. It is slightly higher in cis isomers).

    I will help you guys out a bit more. Aventus has 0.15% of Ethyl Caproate 10%. Aventus also has many, many essential oils and absolutes making up the top note. Ones that will stick out the most are Neroli, Petitgrain, Fir Balsam Absolute, Clary Sage, obviously Orange Oil, Bergamot Oil, but very importantly Pink Pepper SFE.

    It has a base comprised of about 40 essential oils and absolutes. This base also has strict captives from more than one multinational, namely Symroxane (Symrise), Belambre (Givaudan), Pepperwood (Givaudan). There are 26 more captives in this base. There’s also some rather different and interesting molecules in the base as well, but I won’t get into them.

    You may want to add a trace of Costus root oil to mimic the odor of certain molecules used within the fragrance.

    The correct structure you should build off of is as follows:

    Ambrox - 11%
    Helvetolide - 14%
    Hedione - 22.40%
    Iso E Super - 14%
    Ambrettolide - 2%
    Coranol - 2%

    Good luck.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Thanks for the insight.
    I have Pink Pepper EO from Eden would that suffice?
    Also, I may not be trying a complete knock out copy of Aventus I am trying to carry over some of my favorite nuances from certain batches I have enjoyed in the past, particularly a 2014 batch (first sample I ever received 14C01) that had a metallic pineapple and smokey pepper woodsy accord that I have never smelled again in Aventus. It basically smelled like CDNIM w/pineapple but done right and luxurious with an aura about it. Ah if I could go back in time and buy 10 of those bottles. Oh well.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    Ambrox - 11%
    Helvetolide - 14%
    Hedione - 22.40%
    Iso E Super - 14%
    Ambrettolide - 2%
    Coranol - 2%
    Good luck.
    BAGreat, isn't virtually every recent perfume of any notice composed over a monolith such as this one? I don't enjoy these that much, they remind me of a throbbing ache of one sort or another. It appears fragrances must, foremost, perform.

    More to the point. Would you mind, tuscaloosatanning, breaking your formula into smaller bits? Or perhaps single out one or two main accords?

  20. #80

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Aventus is so nuanced, I am afraid only nature may know the answer to this ��. Lol well there is a reason for it of course, but would assume it was just the right combination of trace molecules from the naturals which caused this.

    I believe I have smelled this batch and it was very stark, vibrant and fruity. If comparing a sample of a 2018 batch I have right now, this new batch isn’t as “vibrant” and fruity. The difference isn’t night and day, but it’s just not the same. Hard to describe.

    Yes the EO will work, but I believe you may be able to secure a sample of Firmenich quality of Pink Pepper SFE from Christine of Perfumers Supply House. SFE would be the best choice in this case though.

    Aventus has within it a pineapple reconstituted flavor base as well. It’s in a small amount, but naturalizes the pineapple accord. So you may want to look for one online via TGSC. Be careful of buying a flavor that contains water though. The one used in Aventus contains only the concentrated molecules.

    The smokiness everyone talks about is from a leather base from Firmenich. It has dephenolized birch tar. Make sure you are using Isobutyl Quinolone Secondary (CAS# 93-19-6) not Pyralone (CAS# 65442-31-1) which is stronger and more invasive than IBQ-2. This could be a part of your problem. I am afraid I don’t know any other ingredients in this leather base.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Not exactly the same percentages, but there are a few fragrances which have this modernized Chypre structure. Adding Patchouli and Oakmoss to this block is vital of course.

    In the range of BDC, Sauvage EDT and EDP, Prada Luna Ross’s Carbon, they all have similarities to Aventus. You can’t have these accords without a form of Ambrox (either Cetalox, Ambroxan, etc) and Patchouli. I would say these are the two most important ingredients in the olfactory block.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    It has a base comprised of about 40 essential oils and absolutes. This base also has strict captives from more than one multinational, namely Symroxane (Symrise), Belambre (Givaudan), Pepperwood (Givaudan). There are 26 more captives in this base. There’s also some rather different and interesting molecules in the base as well, but I won’t get into them.
    The only Pepperwood here would be your peppering of your replies with dubiousness and falsehoods. Symroxane is no longer a captive, and the whole point about captives is that they are only used by one house. That's part of what makes a captive a captive, and it makes little sense financially for houses to loan out the use of their greatest secrets to third-party perfumers whose companies seem to have gone into liquidation.

  23. #83

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    The smokiness everyone talks about is from a leather base from Firmenich. It has dephenolized birch tar. Make sure you are using Isobutyl Quinolone Secondary (CAS# 93-19-6) not Pyralone (CAS# 65442-31-1) which is stronger and more invasive than IBQ-2. This could be a part of your problem. I am afraid I don’t know any other ingredients in this leather base.
    Interesting. Yeah I've done some searching for the 2-IBQ and the only place to purchase it is from a giant supplier in kg (why not just use less Pyralone?). Also, could the gc of ambroxan actually be the molecule from cetalox or a combination of the two? I find it scary that incredible birch aroma could be so elusive, either the parts that make it whole and or the single aroma chem that makes up most of it's dna is practically unknown. Or 'birch' is under the guise of another aroma chem(s) that could be readily available. I see some houses using Juniper or Juniper berries in their Aventus clones so perhaps they were onto something in this regard, or not. Creed painted a wide brush over this 'birch' aspect and I think I know why. Dua has gotten the closest in 13ZZ and the whole birch tar oil factory in Barcelona thing just seems like another false-hood, it constitutes almost all of the unique dna in their formula, so they need to protect their golden egg. (They claim to get all of their oils imported from the Middle East on Linked-In).

  24. #84
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    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Still more Lies from DUA. DUA gets their oils from here:
    https://www.luzi.ch/?lang=en-gb

    As validated by Hany Hafez.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Excuse my ignorance ... Who is DUA?
    From freedom came elegance:
    in the Finnish man we trust

  26. #86

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by perfumum View Post
    The only Pepperwood here would be your peppering of your replies with dubiousness and falsehoods. Symroxane is no longer a captive, and the whole point about captives is that they are only used by one house. That's part of what makes a captive a captive, and it makes little sense financially for houses to loan out the use of their greatest secrets to third-party perfumers whose companies seem to have gone into liquidation.
    Are you sure that creed has gone into liquidation?
    From freedom came elegance:
    in the Finnish man we trust

  27. #87

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    delete
    Last edited by SharpLess; 19th August 2018 at 05:24 AM.

  28. #88

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Sober View Post
    Excuse my ignorance ... Who is DUA?
    DUA is a clone house, but a pricey one compared to most. They do use high end ingredients though.

  29. #89

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    I removed my to-buy list. I see people are already trying stuff from that list and from now on I won't suggest anything until it I know it works in a blend to prevent being wrong or yelled at in private.
    Last edited by SharpLess; 17th August 2018 at 12:08 PM.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Yes... its an Aventus inspired formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Sober View Post
    Are you sure that creed has gone into liquidation?
    No, Creed hasn't, but the company of the perfumer who keeps telling BA impossible things about Aventus seems to be in liquidation.




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