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  1. #1
    Super Member Basehead's Avatar
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    Default Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    I asked Dior on their reformulation practices of Fahrenheit and I received this response. Thought it might interest some too.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Wow, surprised they bothered with this long answer!

    Whether it is true of course is a different matter.

    cacio

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    It's interesting that she said there was a major reformulation in 2011. I like how she describes the barrel note.

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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Thank you for providing the letter.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve my or other Basenoters' acknowledgement or respect.

  5. #5
    The Devil in the Details
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    I will say that smelling the petrol note in this stuff puts me over a barrel sometimes, and I like that.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Thanks for posting this. It’s crazy to think how many makers have their own ‘Fahrenheit barrels’ that get thrown out, to be forgotten to time, never to be experienced by another soul again.

  7. #7
    Super Member annetteo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Hats off to Dior for even bothering to answer! Doubt if you would have even got a response from Chanel,let alone a detailed one like that...

  8. #8
    Super Member Basehead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Yeah no problem!! I figured some others would like to hear what they had to say. I was very surprised to get such a detailed response as well. I was just sitting around thinking of driving back home to the US from Canada as a kid in the early 90’s, having just stopped at the duty free on the border when my uncle bought Fahrenheit. I fell in love with fragrances that day, specifically this scent. I couldn’t stop sniffing the nozzle the entire car ride home! It was amazing! And the fact that the scent matched the color of the bottle and the name of the fragrance so perfectly in my mind blew me away. I just started thinking about how many other people had a fragrance that was important to them, change over time to something different. It just gave me an urge to try and get a answer on this from Dior. That being said I’m not too disappointed in the latest version that is out now, but still was a bit curious on the matter.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    What a nice, thoughtful reply!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    What's driving me nuts is the temperature thing. 18-20C?! Who keeps their houses that cold, man? I keep mine on a lower end at 71, and my gf may find that too cold at times. Growing up in a different house, it was basically a constant 74 or so. That's considered normal where I live. 68 would be, I guess, kind of unheard of around here.

    A legit worry of mine is stuff spoiling, but I do basically the best I can in that I keep them in the dark/in their packages/in A/C. But 64 - 68 degrees constantly just isn't feasible nor reasonable where I live. Oh well.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    According to various sources, the tiny number written on the box at the end of the "formula" of each perfume could be used as a proof of the "variation" of the scent.
    MonsieurGuerlain wrote a very interesting article months ago, since Dior, Guerlain etc., are in the same big company.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by ILikePeeps View Post
    What's driving me nuts is the temperature thing. 18-20C?! Who keeps their houses that cold, man? I keep mine on a lower end at 71, and my gf may find that too cold at times. Growing up in a different house, it was basically a constant 74 or so. That's considered normal where I live. 68 would be, I guess, kind of unheard of around here.

    A legit worry of mine is stuff spoiling, but I do basically the best I can in that I keep them in the dark/in their packages/in A/C. But 64 - 68 degrees constantly just isn't feasible nor reasonable where I live. Oh well.
    I totally get what you're saying. Still, it's only a recommendation. Here (in Denmark) most older houses have a 'cool-room', a room with no windows usually in the cellar or next to the kitchen, where you store canned goods/foods, beverages etc and in my case vintage fragrances (except the ones I currently use for a period of time). I know such rooms aren't common in all countries, and I've even heard of people in hotter surroundings using thermo-boxes set to a certain temperature for perfume-storing, and others just having them in a bathroom cabinet at higher temps with no problems.

    /martin
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  13. #13
    Super Member Basehead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Yeah I’m not sure what most people keep their House at but mine is usually at 72F (22C). I just keep my frags in a closet that is always closed, but have really been contemplating buying a nice wine cooler soon. Also I agree that barrel note situation is fascinating if it really is true! Now that I think more about that May 2011 date, wasn’t DHI altered slightly around that time too? It seems right around 2011-2012 there were some major alterations to fragrances done, and not just Dior. The regulations really had an impact around that time. I wish I was aware of it beforehand so I could have stocked up on a few including Fahrenheit, DHI, Aventus and several others. Crazy stuff.... Loving the replies so far ppl.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Wow, thanks for this letter!

    I never knew that story about this change sunlight chemical reaction in an abandoned perfume barrel?!

    That makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Fahrenheit is such a totally unique world unto itself, sometimes copied but it's too out there to have spawned a genre. That's because it was a random smell where they happened to have a spectrometer, after all...

  15. #15

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Great stuff, I knew I'd seen that comment on Fahrenheit being a happy accident somewhere before but thought it was taken from that Dior coffee table book.

    I do like it when companies are this honest and transparent.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    That sounds like an honest response from Dior, most other companies’ responses are that they never reformulate even in cases that reformulations are like almost totally different from the original.
    In my opinion they are telling the truth, from personal experience I have go thru over 10 bottles of Fahrenheit over the years, and testing whatever is in stores few times a year and it was around 2011-2012 when testing in store I was like W. the F. do I smell vanilla?
    I am pretty sure up to that point the juice in the bottles between 1988 - 2011/2012 was never reformulated it was same as the first one.
    Currently I have:
    100 ml. of rare batch from 1987 this was the very first batches, made in 1987 and shipped to stores for launch in spring 1988.
    200 ml. from 2005
    50 ml. from 2006
    They all smell exactly the same, and I have confirmed that with few more people all 3 on paper smell the same and last the same.

    IMG_2744.jpg
    1976 - Yatagan Caron
    1977 - Snuff by Schiaparelli
    1981 - Kouros YSL
    1988 - Fahrenheit Dior
    1980 - Patou Pour Homme
    1987 - Lapidus Pour Homme
    1981 - Quorum Antonio Puig
    1985 - Derby de Guerlain
    2014 - Dior Homme Parfum
    1987 - Ho Hang Club Balenciaga

  17. #17

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    To me a good eyeball marker is the rounded cap and Christian Dior on the bottom of the bottle as those two always point toward the real deal.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Reformulated once in May 2011?. That's hard to believe.
    In his year 2008 Guide, Luca Turin describes Fahrenheit as "unrecognizable" from the original,
    not to mention all changes occurred since then (i.e after 2008)

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by Akragas View Post
    Reformulated once in May 2011?. That's hard to believe.
    In his year 2008 Guide, Luca Turin describes Fahrenheit as "unrecognizable" from the original,
    not to mention all changes occurred since then (i.e after 2008)
    There definitely have been tweaks over the years, but I think "unrecognizable" is more of an emotional response because I have samples of 1988 and 2011 productions, with the biggest noticeable change being the (slight) reduction of the "barrel note" in newer, plus reduced performance (but still acceptable). However, I will agree that deep vintage is nuclear strong gasoline and violet + leather.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by peter4ptv View Post
    Currently I have:
    100 ml. of rare batch from 1987 this was the very first batches, made in 1987 and shipped to stores for launch in spring 1988.
    200 ml. from 2005
    50 ml. from 2006
    wow, lovely Peter! My earlier bottle is from '94
    Currently wearing: Quorum by Antonio Puig

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by sproaty View Post
    wow, lovely Peter! My earlier bottle is from '94
    94 is nice, did you notice any differences between 94 with anything up until 2010/2011? i did not find any or if any it must be really small tweaks of the juice.
    i totally agreed with Palmolive: eyeball marker is the rounded cap and Christian Dior on the bottom of the bottle as those two always point toward the real deal.
    as long as you have any rounded cap and Christian Dior on the bottom you are all set with best version of Fahrenheit, not need to seek any super vintage edition.
    1976 - Yatagan Caron
    1977 - Snuff by Schiaparelli
    1981 - Kouros YSL
    1988 - Fahrenheit Dior
    1980 - Patou Pour Homme
    1987 - Lapidus Pour Homme
    1981 - Quorum Antonio Puig
    1985 - Derby de Guerlain
    2014 - Dior Homme Parfum
    1987 - Ho Hang Club Balenciaga

  22. #22

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    You do have to wonder though how many times these cries of "reformulation!" are just changes to the materials over time/temp changes/light changes, etc..

  23. #23

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by masonjarjar View Post
    You do have to wonder though how many times these cries of "reformulation!" are just changes to the materials over time/temp changes/light changes, etc..
    Spot on! Fragrance age is the main factor of difference between an old and new batch, but reformulation nerds want to believe differently. Seeing these reformulation talks is just funny imo, but if that makes them happy, why not? Poor Mankind....

  24. #24

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by Akragas View Post
    Reformulated once in May 2011?. That's hard to believe.
    In his year 2008 Guide, Luca Turin describes Fahrenheit as "unrecognizable" from the original,
    not to mention all changes occurred since then (i.e after 2008)
    Luca Turin may good at wrtiting books, but not better at smelling fragrances compared to the average Joe. Furthermore, he was initially a chemist that have been called out by his peers for publishing fake results, and had to put an end to his research career for this reason. Fragrance reviewing is just a business for him, it's in his own interest to create a buzz about his book by writing sharp/controversial reviews, so that people cite him and he sells. I don't rely at all on this guy's opinion, it's just one opinion over a billion.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    There definitely have been tweaks over the years, but I think "unrecognizable" is more of an emotional response because I have samples of 1988 and 2011 productions, with the biggest noticeable change being the (slight) reduction of the "barrel note" in newer, plus reduced performance (but still acceptable). However, I will agree that deep vintage is nuclear strong gasoline and violet + leather.
    "unrecognizable" is more of an emotional response": Agreed.

    "deep vintage is nuclear strong gasoline and violet + leather": there is no way to tell if the difference between 1988 and 2011 samples are because of formulas, or (more probably) because the 1988 sample became stronger with time and oxidation. Maybe you'll smell the same strong gasoline and violet smell you smell today in the 1988 sample, in the 2011 sample when you'll smell it in 2041...

  26. #26

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
    Thanks for posting this. It’s crazy to think how many makers have their own ‘Fahrenheit barrels’ that get thrown out, to be forgotten to time, never to be experienced by another soul again.
    It is all made up, like for the JFK story of Eight&Bob. People do not want to buy only a smell anymore, they also want to pay for an anecdote they can tell their friends about. I think you missed the beginning of the sentence in the letter: "It is said that..."

  27. #27
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    Default Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by masonjarjar View Post
    You do have to wonder though how many times these cries of "reformulation!" are just changes to the materials over time/temp changes/light changes, etc..
    Spot on. A 40- or even 10-year old frag does not smell the same today as it did then. That's just not possible. A good example is Grey Flannel which only gets better with time, imo. Current version is good but kinda harsh. Let it sit a couple years and it smells very good. Older bottles are even better, but they haven't always smelled that way. So when someone compares current to vtg and screams 'reformulation!' is just wrong. It probably just smells like a brand new one did back in the '80s or so. Just my 2 cents
    The factors you describe in your post are right as rain and should be considered more often when comparing.
    Nobody puts POLO in the corner!

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by Marand75 View Post
    Spot on. A 40- or even 10-year old frag does not smell the same today as it did then. That's just not possible. A good example is Grey Flannel which only gets better with time, imo. Current version is good but kinda harsh. Let it sit a couple years and it smells very good. Older bottles are even better, but they haven't always smelled that way. So when someone compares current to vtg and screams 'reformulation!' is just wrong. It probably just smells like a brand new one did back in the '80s or so. Just my 2 cents
    The factors you describe in your post are right as rain and should be considered more often when comparing.
    What matters is vintage smells better than current. If I want to wear Polo now I can't buy one from Sephora and wait 20 years, I have to get a vintage one from eBay
    Beauty needs no morality or righteousness.
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by epapsiou View Post
    What matters is vintage smells better than current. If I want to wear Polo now I can't buy one from Sephora and wait 20 years, I have to get a vintage one from eBay
    Absolutely! He's just underlining that it is wrong to state with certainty that it smells better because of an hypothetical old formulation, like some people do on forum/reviews. The vintage smells better now because it has aged, and the juice has opened (not really like a wine, but still, some air in the bottle helps).
    That doesn't mean that there is no reformulation, but that may happen once every 10-15 years, or when new regulations appears, not every 2 years like some "batch hunters" who spread their 2 cents expertise want people to think.
    For Aventus though, it is a commercial technique they use: they voluntarily slightly modify some batches to make the buzz. But Fahrenheit? Oh please... It's even more worrying (or funny, it depends the points of view) that now many people start doing that for each and every frag they encounter....

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Fahrenheit reformulation response from Dior

    Quote Originally Posted by epapsiou View Post
    What matters is vintage smells better than current. If I want to wear Polo now I can't buy one from Sephora and wait 20 years, I have to get a vintage one from eBay
    I hear ya, papsi, vtg Fahrenheit should smell better than current, allthough I haven't smelled it since 1990 so I don't know what better is. It's a subjective matter anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy the frenchy View Post
    Absolutely! He's just underlining that it is wrong to state with certainty that it smells better because of an hypothetical old formulation, like some people do on forum/reviews. The vintage smells better now because it has aged, and the juice has opened (not really like a wine, but still, some air in the bottle helps).
    That doesn't mean that there is no reformulation, but that may happen once every 10-15 years, or when new regulations appears, not every 2 years like some "batch hunters" who spread their 2 cents expertise want people to think.
    For Aventus though, it is a commercial technique they use: they voluntarily slightly modify some batches to make the buzz. But Fahrenheit? Oh please... It's even more worrying (or funny, it depends the points of view) that now many people start doing that for each and every frag they encounter....
    Excactly, that's what I was aiming at: Claiming vtg is better in general just because it's vtg, is just snobbery. Claiming a particular vintage is better because of, say, storage or aeration/oxidation or other is, imo, the correct approach.
    I also aknowledge that now and then, a reformulation can pretty much ruin a classic, but I also aknowledge that a reform can be an improvement.
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