Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1

    Default Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    I am wondering what makes pink grapefruit smell pink? Also like when you eat pink grapefruit.

    I'm not asking in a synthesia way. I'm saying if you have a formula for white grapefruit or a gcms for green grapefruit then what would you add to make it smell/taste pink?

    I have gcms of plenty of pink grapefruits and I still feel I'm missing something. I know pink grapefruit is closely related to orange. What is the pinkness? I'm thinking the sensation is a contrast of materials but I'm getting lost.

    Is it lemon, pine, sweet? Lemon berry pepper? Sulpher sweet lemon?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    This might help:

    White is absent of Ketones and Esters.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Wow that's a neat batch comparison!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Thanks so much for that document. The does indeed give me new avenues to find what I'm looking for!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Ok, so that document already helped me to see I'm not adding enough geranyl acetate or geraniol. Adding firascone to a paper tester was wow!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Quote Originally Posted by RSG View Post
    Wow that's a neat batch comparison!
    Amazing isn't it RSG. Such a huge variance in natural oils.
    .... and THAT"S why the big guys want to own the fields... so they have the greatest chance at consistency.

    "each thirty-millilitre bottle of Chanel No. 5 represents the afterlife of a thousand Pégomas jasmine flowers and twelve Pégomas roses."

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naia View Post
    Ok, so that document already helped me to see I'm not adding enough geranyl acetate or geraniol. Adding firascone to a paper tester was wow!

    Wonderful. I am happy it was useful Naia.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    By taste, I assume that you mean the flesh or juice. You may wish to try 4-mercapto-4-methylpentan-2-one (4MMP) - a thiol naturally found in grapefruit juice. While it's found in the white marsh grapefruit, it's descriptors ("blackcurrant", "pink grapefruit", etc.) suggest that it may be present at higher levels in some pink and red varieties.

    The typical sulfurous, grapefruit-like odor quality was mainly due to the catty, blackcurrant-like 4-mercapto-4-methylpentan-2-one...
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf001235x


    Scheurebe stakes out its identity with 4-mercapto-4-methylpentan-2-one (a molecule absent from Gewürztraminer wines), a sulfuric compound belonging to the thiol family, with a complex aroma reminiscent of boxwood, black currants, pink grapefruit, and passion fruit...
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false


    In a trial using New Zealand Sauvignon blanc (2017) wines made with Stimula
    Sauvignon blanc showed a 19% and 150% increase in 3MH and 4MMP, respec-
    tively, compared to no addition. These wines were described as having increase
    in thiol descriptors including pink grapefruit and passionfruit.
    http://www.lallemandwine.com/wp-cont...SB-NZ-2018.pdf


    If you can't get 4MMP (cat ketone), then 4-methoxy-2-methyl-2-butanethiol (blackcurrant mercaptan) and 8-thio-p-menthan-3-one (buchu mercaptan) may be suitable alternatives:

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...-3-one&f=false
    Last edited by Pears; 13th August 2018 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    I have currant base, a cassis base, and theaspirane. I'm hoping that by using these I will avoid buying the thiols but I will end up doing it if I need to.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Yes, use what you have first. At least you now know what to try if that doesn't work.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Grapefruit mercaptane is a naturally occouring character (with 4MMP) trace compound of grapefruit, lost on distillation of the oil (not present in GCMS like nootkatone, only GCO).
    But you can get it as 1% solution in grapefruit oil or limonene, thats really concentrated ;-) ... use level is 0.000001-0.00001 ppm... (!)

    Yes, trying the cassis notes would be interesting.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Yes, I purposefully didn't mention grapefruit mercaptan because one study showed that it was lower in some pink varieties than in white. But yes, she should still add some, just not specifically to enhance the sense of pinkness.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Yes I do have that. The only problem I'm having is everything turns out bitter white or green grapefruit. I'm specifically going for pinkness lol

  14. #14

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Hm, citrus-grapefruit= nootkatone+grapefruit mercaptane, fruity-grapefruit= neryl acetate+geranyl acetate?
    Synaesthetically, when I am thinking of pink I think raspberry ketone.

  15. #15
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,456

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    This is my Pink Grapefruit replacer accord:

    Methyl Pamplemousse 9.46gr 90.33%
    Alcohol C-9 0.02gr 0.19%
    Geranyl Acetate 0.02gr 0.14%
    Aldehyde C-10 Decanal neat 0.04gr 0.33%
    Geranium Terpeneless Ungerer 0.05gr 0.43%
    Acetate C-9 0.07gr 0.62%
    Ocimene PQ 0.08gr 0.76%
    Aldehyde C-8 neat 0.01gr 0.12%
    Lime Oxide 0.06gr 0.57%
    Orange Juice Distilled EO 0.18gr 1.72%
    Alpha Terpineol 0.02gr 0.19%
    Looks like I should take out the Terpineol 0.00%
    Citral 0.10gr 0.96%
    Tangerinol 0.11gr 1.05%
    Pollenal 0.03gr 0.29%
    Sweet Orange EO 0.24gr 2.29%
    0.00%
    Remove the Lime Oxide, and Terpineol 0.00%
    Reduce Ocimene 0.00%
    Add more sweet orange and tangerinol 0.00%
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    If it's what you use in your Red Leather fragrance, then I can confirm that it's a realistic replacer of the peel oil.

    Obviously she'd need to take a slightly different approach for a grapefruit flesh accord, but perhaps she wants both.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Thanks so much, Paul I will give this a go!

  18. #18
    Super Member mattmeleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    vancouver
    Posts
    491

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post
    This might help:

    White is absent of Ketones and Esters.
    My goodness,
    there`s such a vast quality difference from batch to batch...
    Such variations.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    You may find the demonstration formula in the patent below of some use:

    Perfume Oil D: Oriental Scent for Women D/Perfume Oil P: Pink Grapefruit Scent

    Perfume oil D Perfume oil P Component/Fragrance(s) (inventive) (inventive) Agrunitril 30.0 Aldehyde C8 (n-octanal) 4.0 Aldehyde C12 (n-dodecanal) 2.0 Aldehyde C14 so-called, 10% in TEC 2.0 8.0 Allyl amyl glycolate, 10% in TEC 20.0 15.0 Allyl capronate 15.0 Allyl cyclohexyl propionate 15.0 Abrin, 10% in DPG 10.0 Benzyl acetate 2.0 Bergamot oil 25.0 Cashmeran ®, 10% in DPG 6.0 Cedar wood oil 3.0 Citral, 10% in DPG 2.0 Citronellol 3.0 Lemon oil, Italian 2.0 Citrylal 25.0 Claritone ® 35.0 Coumarin 12.0 Cyclamen aldehyde 2.0 p-cymol 5.0 Damascenone, 10% in DPG 2.0 Beta-damascone, 10% in DPG 5.0 Davana oil, 10% in DPG 5.0 Gamma-decalactone, 10% in DPG 4.0 Trans-2-decenal, 1% in DPG 5.0 Dihydromyrceol 25.0 Dipropylene glycol (DPG) To 1,000 Trans-2-dodecenal, 10% in TEC 95.0 Ebanol ®, 10% in DPG 4.0 Ethyl butyrate, 10% in DPG 2.0 Ethyl maltol 6.0 Ethyl vanillin, 10% in DPG 12.0 1.0 Exaltenone, 10% in DPG 2.0 Galaxolid ®, 50% in DEP 38.0 Geranium oil 4.0 Grapefruit base 7.0 35.0 Methyl dihydrojasmonate (Hedion ®) 44.0 Cis-3-hexenol, 10% in TEC 2.0 Cis-3-hexenyl acetate, 10% in DPG 2.0 Cis-3-hexenyl salicylate 2.0 Alpha-hexyl cinamaldehyde 5.0 Iso E Super ® 3.0 Natural spearmint oil, USA, 10% in 5.0 TEC Ligustral ®, 10% in DPG 6.0 Lilial ® 24.0 Lime oil 10.0 Linalool 10.0 Linalyl acetate 12.0 Lyral 2.0 I-menthol 30.0 Nutmeg oil, 10% in DPG 12.0 Nootkatone 1.0 Brazilian orange oil 8.0 Indonesian patchouli oil 75.0 Resedafol 7.0 Rose oxide, high-cis 4.0 Sandalwood oil 25.0 Styryl acetate 5.0 3.0 Terpineol 3.0 Terpinyl acetate 5.0 Thiocineol, 10% in TEC 3.0 8,3-thiomenthanone, 10% in TEC 5.0 Thymol, 10% in TEC 5.0 Tonalid ® 27.0 Trans-2-tridecenal 1.0 Triethyl citrate (TEC) To 1,000 Vanillin 9.0 Vetikol acetate 25.0 Mixture X, 1% in TEC 1.0 0.3 TOTAL: 1,000.0 1,000.0
    https://patents.justia.com/patent/20100310479


    If you look carefully, you'll notice that it is actually two formulas - one for an Oriental Scent and the other for a Pink Grapefruit Scent. Where one ends and the other begins isn't so easy to spot.

    Those components in the Pink Grapefruit Scent that would most obviously contribute to the pink quality are: ethyl maltol and 8,3-thiomenthanone (buchu mercaptan).

    I hope this helps.
    Last edited by Pears; 13th August 2018 at 08:07 PM.

  20. #20
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,456

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Hi Pears, thanks for pointing this patent out.
    Unfortunately, that reading of the formula is a comingled formula for both scents, and Ethyl Maltol does not appear in the Grapefruit bit, but the Oriental bit.

    This is the original patent graphic, compiled into a cogent readable format.

    Oriental formula - Pink Grapefruit Formula.jpg
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?

    Well spotted, Paul. Yes, they have clearly cut and pasted the table contents in the other publication, thereby mixing up the orders. I'll now remove the dividing slash that I added, as it can't help to fix their hack job.

    So, I would say that 8,3-thiomenthanone (buchu mercaptan) is the primary component that they've used to add a pink quality. This fits with the information that I posted in post #8, regarding the blackcurrant-like quality of 4-methoxy-2-methyl-2-butanethiol.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Pink grapefruit VS. other?


Similar Threads

  1. Pink grapefruit
    By perfectscent in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 22nd April 2018, 08:02 PM
  2. Article: 4711 launches Pink Pepper & Grapefruit
    By Grant in forum Article Comments
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 3rd March 2013, 01:15 AM
  3. Demeter launch Pink Grapefruit cologne
    By Grant in forum Basenotes Articles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 9th September 2009, 03:00 PM
  4. Bath & Body Works - Pink Grapefruit
    By oolong in forum No longer missing fragrances
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 15th April 2007, 05:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000