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  1. #1

    Default Massive Creed base.

    I'm probably not the first to ask this, but does anyone have any secrets to the massive base Creed has to all their fragrances? Their scents fill the entire nose, there's no other way to describe it other than a really "wide" smell - it's just incredible. I think mint has something to do with it although I could be wrong.

    Now I know people say it's ambergris but I have some and it smells nothing like creed - so what do they mix with it, what is the secret in the secret sauce?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Daddy101 View Post
    I'm probably not the first to ask this, but does anyone have any secrets to the massive base Creed has to all their fragrances? Their scents fill the entire nose, there's no other way to describe it other than a really "wide" smell - it's just incredible. I think mint has something to do with it although I could be wrong.

    Now I know people say it's ambergris but I have some and it smells nothing like creed - so what do they mix with it, what is the secret in the secret sauce?

    knock yourself out... LOL

    Jeroen's site

  3. #3

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Well, aside from Green Irish Tweed (which has Ambrox DL), Creed uses a special Ambrox which is called "Ambrox Classique" from Firmenich. I don't know the exact difference between this Ambrox, which has Ambrols (unsure of what these molecules are exactly), and regular Ambroxan which you can buy. It is NOT patented and therefore can be synthesized and used by anyone. However, Firmenich will not sell it, and Givaudan wont sell it either, so it must be something somewhat special (named Amberlyn Super from Givaudan).

    Ambrox Classique is creamier and smoother than Ambroxan. This is why Aventus can have 11% of Ambrox Classique, and no one claims it to be an Ambroxan bomb like Sauvage, which has only 9% of Ambroxan.

    I don't know for sure if Creeds actually did at one point have trace amounts of real Ambergris (highly doubtful), but I do know 100% (I have smelled the bases) that Creeds use reconstituted Ambergris Absolute bases. The Ambergris Absolute base in Green Irish Tweed has a mindbogglingly beautiful and sexy drydown, but the top note stinks of halitosis and poop. Erolfa has a different Ambergis base than GIT, but smell Erolfa on the blotter very closely and you will smell something off and stinky. This is the Ambergris Absolute base.

    A simplified key to creating a Creed like base is Ambrox-Evernyl (usually from colorless Oakmoss Absolute in Creeds)-Sandalwood (or like molecules)-Iso E Super-Hedione-Ambrettolide. Even waving these ingredients together on a blotter will remind you of the drydown of many Creeds, especially Millesime Imperial.

    To answer your question, Creeds are usually built off monolithic block structures then filled with traces of many materials and bases. Sometimes many bases. This is a key to their simple complexity. I know of one base in Millesime Imperial that has 300 ingredients in it. Keeping in mind this is only one ingredient in Millesime Imperial, which of course has many more ingredients. This explains their "3D" quality and as you put it "wide" smell. What I have explained is also the sole reason why any attempt at accurately recreating a Creed fragrance on a like for like basis in every aspect is a futile endeavor.

    Lastly Creed fragrances are indifferent towards IFRA and regulations in general. This is why Lyral is still in their fragrances (come 2019 I bet it will still be there!), and Millesime imperial has had 1.8% Alpha Damascone (90 times the IFRA "recommend limit") for 23 years and there is nothing the IFRA can do about it.

    With the above statement in mind, whatever is causing the Aventus issues with performance, purported reformulations, and variations is beyond me.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    Well, aside from Green Irish Tweed (which has Ambrox DL), Creed uses a special Ambrox which is called "Ambrox Classique" from Firmenich. I don't know the exact difference between this Ambrox, which has Ambrols (unsure of what these molecules are exactly), and regular Ambroxan which you can buy. It is NOT patented and therefore can be synthesized and used by anyone. However, Firmenich will not sell it, and Givaudan wont sell it either, so it must be something somewhat special (named Amberlyn Super from Givaudan).

    Ambrox Classique is creamier and smoother than Ambroxan. This is why Aventus can have 11% of Ambrox Classique, and no one claims it to be an Ambroxan bomb like Sauvage, which has only 9% of Ambroxan.

    I don't know for sure if Creeds actually did at one point have trace amounts of real Ambergris (highly doubtful), but I do know 100% (I have smelled the bases) that Creeds use reconstituted Ambergris Absolute bases. The Ambergris Absolute base in Green Irish Tweed has a mindbogglingly beautiful and sexy drydown, but the top note stinks of halitosis and poop. Erolfa has a different Ambergis base than GIT, but smell Erolfa on the blotter very closely and you will smell something off and stinky. This is the Ambergris Absolute base.

    A simplified key to creating a Creed like base is Ambrox-Evernyl (usually from colorless Oakmoss Absolute in Creeds)-Sandalwood (or like molecules)-Iso E Super-Hedione-Ambrettolide. Even waving these ingredients together on a blotter will remind you of the drydown of many Creeds, especially Millesime Imperial.

    To answer your question, Creeds are usually built off monolithic block structures then filled with traces of many materials and bases. Sometimes many bases. This is a key to their simple complexity. I know of one base in Millesime Imperial that has 300 ingredients in it. Keeping in mind this is only one ingredient in Millesime Imperial, which of course has many more ingredients. This explains their "3D" quality and as you put it "wide" smell. What I have explained is also the sole reason why any attempt at accurately recreating a Creed fragrance on a like for like basis in every aspect is a futile endeavor.

    Lastly Creed fragrances are indifferent towards IFRA and regulations in general. This is why Lyral is still in their fragrances (come 2019 I bet it will still be there!), and Millesime imperial has had 1.8% Alpha Damascone (90 times the IFRA "recommend limit") for 23 years and there is nothing the IFRA can do about it.

    With the above statement in mind, whatever is causing the Aventus issues with performance, purported reformulations, and variations is beyond me.


    A great read - very interesting

  5. #5

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Wow! Thank you so much for your detailed reply! You have not only answered the question, you have gone above and beyond. I'm very happy to know some of the secrets...and a little sad that I won't be able to recreate that base.

    I have pretty much most of the ingredients you mentioned so I might have a play around with them. It's very frustrating - Im getting to the point where I can make a semi decent fragrance but it's so narrow, flat and 1 dimensional.

    Is there a simple way to add more dimension to my fragrances? So far, the only aroma chemical that adds width to my creations is ultrazur - the only downside to this chemical is that it smells like detergent

    Thanks again for your incredible answer!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Please read the aventus thread and do searches in this forum there is a lot more hints to be found.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/455...spired-formula

  7. #7

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    Well, aside from Green Irish Tweed (which has Ambrox DL), Creed uses a special Ambrox which is called "Ambrox Classique" from Firmenich. I don't know the exact difference between this Ambrox, which has Ambrols (unsure of what these molecules are exactly), and regular Ambroxan which you can buy. It is NOT patented and therefore can be synthesized and used by anyone. However, Firmenich will not sell it, and Givaudan wont sell it either, so it must be something somewhat special (named Amberlyn Super from Givaudan).

    Ambrox Classique is creamier and smoother than Ambroxan. This is why Aventus can have 11% of Ambrox Classique, and no one claims it to be an Ambroxan bomb like Sauvage, which has only 9% of Ambroxan.

    I don't know for sure if Creeds actually did at one point have trace amounts of real Ambergris (highly doubtful), but I do know 100% (I have smelled the bases) that Creeds use reconstituted Ambergris Absolute bases. The Ambergris Absolute base in Green Irish Tweed has a mindbogglingly beautiful and sexy drydown, but the top note stinks of halitosis and poop. Erolfa has a different Ambergis base than GIT, but smell Erolfa on the blotter very closely and you will smell something off and stinky. This is the Ambergris Absolute base.

    A simplified key to creating a Creed like base is Ambrox-Evernyl (usually from colorless Oakmoss Absolute in Creeds)-Sandalwood (or like molecules)-Iso E Super-Hedione-Ambrettolide. Even waving these ingredients together on a blotter will remind you of the drydown of many Creeds, especially Millesime Imperial.

    To answer your question, Creeds are usually built off monolithic block structures then filled with traces of many materials and bases. Sometimes many bases. This is a key to their simple complexity. I know of one base in Millesime Imperial that has 300 ingredients in it. Keeping in mind this is only one ingredient in Millesime Imperial, which of course has many more ingredients. This explains their "3D" quality and as you put it "wide" smell. What I have explained is also the sole reason why any attempt at accurately recreating a Creed fragrance on a like for like basis in every aspect is a futile endeavor.

    Lastly Creed fragrances are indifferent towards IFRA and regulations in general. This is why Lyral is still in their fragrances (come 2019 I bet it will still be there!), and Millesime imperial has had 1.8% Alpha Damascone (90 times the IFRA "recommend limit") for 23 years and there is nothing the IFRA can do about it.

    With the above statement in mind, whatever is causing the Aventus issues with performance, purported reformulations, and variations is beyond me.
    Is this based on your own GCs? Creed is a European company and cannot ignore EU restrictions without risking being shut down (as opposed to IFRA guidelines).
    Currently wearing: Le Vetiver by Carven

  8. #8

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    No, this information is straight from a very credible source. Let’s put it that way .

    Thankfully this proof is something everyone can see. Even in new 2018 batches, on the bottom of the box is listed “Hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde”, which is Lyral. We will see what happens in 2019 where there is no longer an excuse for its presence.

  9. #9

  10. #10

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    1.8% alpha damascone ? European regulations allow up to 0.02% of this substance... So maybe you are referring to the american juice
    From freedom came elegance:
    in the Finnish man we trust

  11. #11

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    I don’t believe Creed makes different batches of Millesime Imperial for different locations, or any fragrance for that matter. If any batch of Millesime Imperial is missing 1.8% Alpha Damascone, it wouldn’t smell like Millesime Imperial. Check it for yourself, Sober. I am sure you have smelled Alpha Damscone. You can’t miss it in MI if you know how it smells.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    No, this information is straight from a very credible source. Let’s put it that way . .

    Ahh, this "very credible source" rears his head again. It makes me laugh every time I hear reference to him - the talk of non-existent (and occasionally downright chemically impossible materials); the hyperinflated ego; the company without a website that seems to be in liquidation in Spain. It is a shame that you believe everything told to you by this individual, BA.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    I know of one base in Millesime Imperial that has 300 ingredients in it. Keeping in mind this is only one ingredient in Millesime Imperial, which of course has many more ingredients. This explains their "3D" quality and as you put it "wide" smell. .
    But many essential oils also contain around 300 aroma-active compounds. Rose for instance. So what exactly is so special about the mere inclusion of a base with that number?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Massive Creed base.

    Honestly, MI is less complex than Cool Water and essentially an anorexic version of Bourdon's GIT that largely consists of typical aromachemicals of the 90s. The notion of a complex base used in this creation is rather absurd, as opposed to assuming a De Laire resonance in a true vintage-style perfume such as Tabarôme Privée.
    Currently wearing: Le Vetiver by Carven

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