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  1. #61

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Hey Paul ! I just bought a tea tree (osmanthus) a month ago. My husband put it in the ground last week. Any tips on growing it? I live in ne Florida and because we are neither here nor there it can be somewhat tricky and capricious growing anything! I can have something in the ground doing well for years only to succumb to weather or blight in a month, so any tips would be appreciated.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolieo View Post
    Hey Paul ! I just bought a tea tree (osmanthus) a month ago. My husband put it in the ground last week. Any tips on growing it? I live in ne Florida and because we are neither here nor there it can be somewhat tricky and capricious growing anything! I can have something in the ground doing well for years only to succumb to weather or blight in a month, so any tips would be appreciated.
    Osmanthus supposedly likes lots of sun. But here in the Hot Hot desert, the leaves got burnt in full sun, so my plants are on the north side of the house in 3/4 shade. Osmanthus goes by a couple of names, but "Tea Tree" is not one that I've heard... I've heard of Osmanthus being called sweet olive, tea olive, and fragrant olive... even though it does not fruit olives... The Tea Tree that I think of is a tree from Australia that is laden with 1,8-cineole, and oil is antiseptic.

    Good luck with your plants, I read that if they like their place, they can grow enormous...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  3. #63

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    I've never knowingly smelled the actual flower--just the absolute which I find divine.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    I'm working on an Osmanrthus accord and I'm having trouble getting an essential ingredient (i.e. hexanol) to retain its aroma. It forms the heart of my complex, but, alas, doesn't last long.
    My own Osmanthus base doesn't use Hexanol, but does use Cis-3-hexenol, at 2%.

    I was after a fresh flower accord, but I'd never smelled the fresh flowers before, either.
    After I did actually get fresh flowers, I was amazed how I had in fact nailed the fresh flowers, blind.

    In order of prominence, the top 5 materials of my formula are:
    Linalool
    Beta ionone
    PEA
    Dihydro beta ionone
    Sweet Orange EO

    All above are 8% of the formula, or higher.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  5. #65

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    That surprises me because I don't see anything that would give the flower that peculiar leather quality. I've been using suederal and castoreum which work fairly well.

  6. #66

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Ignore my last message. I see you add cis-hexanol. What is the difference between cis-hexanol and hexanol?

  7. #67

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Ignore my last message. I see you add cis-hexanol. What is the difference between cis-hexanol and hexanol?
    I think you most likely mean cis-3-hexenol. There is a double bond. Hexanol does not have one. They do have similar smells. But the former is more refined, more mushroom and leafy, and less paper plastic like (to my nose). It is also slightly less volatile. It is used much more extensively than the later; at least in perfumery.

  8. #68

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    I've never knowingly smelled the actual flower--just the absolute which I find divine.
    Personally, I don't find the absolute very representative of the real flower. There is a product you can buy in some Asian stores (called 桂花蜜, gui hua mi, in mandarin, at least) -- a honey which has osmanthus flowers infused in it. They are not fresh, of course; but if you can find some of this, give it a try in some tea. Once warmed, it does have vestiges of the fresh flower's scent.

    The absolute does indeed have a leather character. It reminds of me oud a bit. But I don't find that in the fresh flowers. And I don't think Hexanol is essential, either. More important are ionones (as Paul mentioned): beta, alpha, dihydro beta, beta epoxide. Also linalool oxide and farnesene. You could look at damasceonone, ctitral, benzyl acetate, various lacones and even benzaldehyde.

    You could also look at traces of 4 isopropyl 2 methyl thiazole. I don't know if it is found in the real flower (probably not); but it is found and peach and essential for that fuzzy like note. It could be interesting in reinterpreting the absolute. As could oakmoss.

  9. #69

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Thank you, fragrantregard. Yes, I snuck a little oud into the formula and it does work wonders. I'll experiment with your and Paul's suggestions. I do lack a few ingredients you mention (beta epoxide, isopropyl 2 methyl thiazole), but will plough ahead anyway.

  10. #70

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Thank you, fragrantregard. Yes, I snuck a little oud into the formula and it does work wonders. I'll experiment with your and Paul's suggestions. I do lack a few ingredients you mention (beta epoxide, isopropyl 2 methyl thiazole), but will plough ahead anyway.
    The epoxide is not crucial. It doesn't smell strongly either, but it is found in the natural. The tiazole I am not sure is found, but it could fit the peachy skin fuzzy character. You could try another thiazole (though the others tend to be more nutty), or even galbazine (2-isobutyl-3-methoxypyrazine) -- which is found in orange flower.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    James, yes, I do use some leather materials, but I wasn't going to dictate my entire formula. I did give six of the materials, though.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  12. #72

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Thank you, fragrantregard. Yes, I snuck a little oud into the formula and it does work wonders. I'll experiment with your and Paul's suggestions. I do lack a few ingredients you mention (beta epoxide, isopropyl 2 methyl thiazole), but will plough ahead anyway.
    Incidentally I was just smelling a sample of beeswax. This could make a lovely addition to an osmanthus accord. Give this a try as well.

  13. #73

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Here's what I've used so far: Oud, 6-cis hexanol, Suederal, Hinoki, Cassie absolute, C-14, Nectaryl, Apritone, Beeswax absolute, castoreum, civet, linalool.
    Thank you, Paul and fragrantregard.

  14. #74

    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Here's what I've used so far: Oud, 6-cis hexanol, Suederal, Hinoki, Cassie absolute, C-14, Nectaryl, Apritone, Beeswax absolute, castoreum, civet, linalool.
    Thank you, Paul and fragrantregard.
    Without proper percentages it is hard to comment. But that strikes me as very animalic for a fresh flower which really doesn't smell animalic (in the way jonquille does, for example) and an absolute which only has a touch of something leathery.

    Apritone and Nectaryl are lactones, like C-14. The latter is quite stable and used in detergents, I think. But try to get some Jasmine Lactone if you can. That is what is found in the natural flower. Or Jasmolactone after that if you cannot find Jasmine.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Peterson View Post
    Here's what I've used so far: Oud, 6-cis hexanol, Suederal, Hinoki, Cassie absolute, C-14, Nectaryl, Apritone, Beeswax absolute, castoreum, civet, linalool.
    Thank you, Paul and fragrantregard.

    Hello James... :-)

    I think I need to ask you to make yourself a notation for the future.
    Please note the names, Hex-'a'-nol, and Hex-'e'-nol.
    You consistently use the a instead of the e, when naming the molecule, when it should use the e.
    But there are in fact cases that do use the a, instead of the e, it's just something that needs a bit more attention.
    The reason they use the e instead of the a, has to do with their chemical structure, which fragrantregard mentions.

    There are many many materials with similar names, so, I know it is sometimes difficult to keep them all straight...
    The enunciation of that syllable, and other syllables regarding alcohols' and aldehydes' pronunciations is one of those lessons that I usually need to give my apprentices when they come, because a failure to properly communicate cause failures in formulation and knowledge transfer between me and my apprentice.
    It's one of those communicational etiquetes that sometimes needs to be taught well to make communications go well.

    next, in your message above, I cannot find any cis-6-hexenol.
    You might have mistyped it as a 6, when you meant a 3.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    I am working on a perfume to give the impression of a warm Eucalyptus grove, and will have Eucalyptus absolute, a trio of Eucalyptus EO's, Blue Cyprus, Fir Balsam, Hay, Honey, Clover, Green Grass, Oak Moss, Cardamom, Frankincense, Mango/Tropical Fruit, Sandalwood notes.

    I am also dreaming of a rainy spring perfume, with Petrichor, green fresh cut grass/violet leaf, violet and watery hyacinth/lily of the valley notes. Nothing ground breaking, but I am currently spending a lot of time at ground level exploring spring with a toddler, and it is making me remember all the scents I first discovered playing in my families back yard when I was young.

    My holy grail perfume which I am always thinking dreaming and scheming about, is of warm winds carrying the scent of the ocean, salt and seaweeds, through a dry west coast island forest, with dry leaves, musky ferns, sun-baked overripe berries and wild rose bushes.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: What fragrances are you working on at the moment and the thoughts behind them?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    My winter project is going to be a matsutake in a pine Forest scent
    Your descriptions sound intoxicating! I have heard of people using dried mushrooms to make tinctures, have you ever tried this with Matsutake? I am sure it won't capture the fresh photorealism you seem to be going for, but it could be an interesting (and pricey) experiment




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