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  1. #31
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pipistrello View Post
    This is just an opinion, perhaps instead of trying to find the answer through the missing people, would be more productive to analyze this world, what it is today in 2018, and what it was 10 or more years ago.

    They were niche brands trend as L'Artisan Parfumeur or Maitre Gantier et Parfumeur (both who became a true genius with Jean Laporte!), Etro, Goutal, Villoresi, etc ... Lutens hit hard, a newcomer Malle, etc. etc.

    It seems that we talked about 50 years ago, ladies and gentlemen, but not: 10-15 years ago, when you could buy a Malle and a Lutens with a minimum of artistry and commercial integrity for 60-80 euros bottle.

    I still remember the first time I smelled Dzing! or Passage D'Enfer, Ambre Sultan, Messe De Minuit ....

    Shortly thereafter, gurus began to emerge and more gurus, the fragrance gurus.


    niche market reached the 100% level of greed,

    Many independent "niche" brands tried to earn a place in the market waiting for a small piece of cake (many of them were just amateurs without any study in perfumery or anything like that, because when you are a smoke seller, you only have to be a good seller).

    I remember when Lutens launched his first L'Eau, the anti-perfume (lol): to the Lutens fans it seemed a "betrayal" -- You just had to smell Fumerie Turque


    The IFRA restrictions came,
    Yes, and I say it very loudly: I do not think it means any LIMITATION in the world of perfume, except the obvious.



    The perfumes became more recognizable and forgettable, the fringe dividing perfumes let's say mainstream with the niche became not only thinner but nonexistent: you could usually smell a niche perfume of 200 USD that was worse made and with worse materials that one of 40 USD

    Self-indulgence and more self-indulgence, higher prices and more price increases.
    Advertising.

    For example, Neroli Portofino? A masterpiece !! a masterpiece...
    The umpteenth "original" copy of a type of colony like 4711 that should be known since 200 years ago, they sell it to you in 2018 for 160 USD and it's a damn masterpiece, man!
    But before that what can be said? Before such a short look?

    And after all this miasma of self-indulgence, what's left?
    Every time more perfumes are made, similar, worse perfumes, and more expensive.

    If a brand was able to bottle Iso e Super in a horrible bottle without a cap and sell it for 120 USD, without anyone throwing one of those bottles at the head of the creative genius of that idea, there are few limits to pass.

    I just hope that these clumsy and hurried notes in a language that is not my native language can provide some interesting point to the OP questions.

    Regards, Pipi
    Quote Originally Posted by Bavard View Post
    I enjoyed the post.
    I enjoyed the post as well, mostly because I agree with it. I butchered it up to emphasize the bits that resonated with me, a bn'er back from a nine year absence.

    Past it, I tell you what I see. These regulations are irrelevant. There is nothing that can't be created in a fine chem lab. These past niche houses turning out junk are cashing in on their own tombstones, and I sincerely hope their founders made a mint on the sell-out for their own retirements.

    I am looking for the next generation of perfumers. Not the next perfumer who sold out his original name and adopted a new one to be "fresh." I mean the NEXT original thinker who never worked with real oakmoss so doesn't buy into replacing it with a single synthetic, or even five built into a standard issue 'accord.' The one who starts from scratch (-ish) and brings me something that widens my eyes. The one who brings beauty, development, complexity, and delight out of what he has at hand without whining out any mewling excuses.

    And please, God, the one who doesn't bring soap.
    A bull in a china shop doesn't take damage. She delivers it. It's The Great Shy Purge of 2019.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Regarding sales/swaps- I have noticed more members who do not have wardrobes. Over the years, it was much more common for members to look at other's wardrobes and offer to buy, sell or swap based on what they saw there. I think a suggestion and simple tutorial to all new members upon joining to create a wardrobe and to create offers there would help generate more interest. I have also seen more sellers asking top dollar, as opposed to us older members who would try to offer a "Basenotes friendly" price for those in our community, as this would pay it forward to you when you decided to buy.

  3. #33

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Perhaps it's a "natural development," at least in an Adam Smith sort of way. LOL. Seriously, there seemed to be a wave of certain types of enthusiasts around 10 years ago, then many of them left (some came back, though not necessarily as enthusiastic as before). They were replaced by what I call the Aventus Generation, who were thinking along different lines. And now we are in the post-Aventus Generation, for the most part. There are also a lot more non-BNers who are in the hobby, some of whom come here now and then. As to the swapping, I noticed how little there is now, and don't even bother bumping my pages. I'd rather just sell on ebay, for the most part (along with buying when the right deal comes along), though I do post on Fragrantica every month or so. There just isn't much that I want, and I'd rather spend the $10 or less that I often spend on a new bottle rather than on shipping for a swap (does anyone remember the days of USPS's "2 pounds for $2.90"? yes, the rise in shipping costs is a factor too). I do toss my list at some people who have something I'd like, on rare occasion, but those swaps hardly ever happen these days. So, my advice is, look for the great deals on ebay or at the major discounters, and then just sell what you don't want on ebay. If you have the time, you can bump your swap list, but don't expect much to come from it.

  4. #34

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpp214 View Post
    Here's my question for you guys and gals: why do you continue to come here to Basenotes, even after it's clear that no one (outside of those of us who continue to come here) cares about fragrances, outside of us?

    I've been a "member" since 2011 but I lurked around for at least a year before that. Back then, if you wanted to sell or swap a fragrance, it was no trouble whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the sale/swap threads were so busy that as soon as you posted your thread, whatever you had for sale/swap was gone within 24 hours at the very least (as long as you had it priced "reasonably"). Back then, you'd post a sale/swap thead, and it would be bumped to the 2nd page by the end of the day. Nowadays, you post a sale/swap thread and it stays on the first page for at least a week, until you can bump it again.

    So, here's the deal. I have my own theory as to why this has happened, and I'd like to hear other longstanding members chime in with their theories, but I'm sure we're all on the same page as to why this has happened: Reformulations due to IFRA regulations. In some ways, I feel like I got into this hobby at the worst possible time (2010), for this reason: I got to sample fragrances, as a beginner, before they got reformulated. I was a beginner at the time, so I didn't/couldn't appreciate fragrances like: vintage Dunhill Edition, vintage Chanel Egoiste, vintage Hermes Bel Ami, and on and on and on...

    At the time, I had no idea what I was doing, or smelling, or that this would become a long-term hobby. As a result, I let many fragrances go at that time due to swaps/sales here on this forum that I now regret.

    Can anyone else here identify with this? Does anyone else here remember when this forum was MUCH busier, and had MUCH more traffic? Do you also agree that the reason for the slowdown in the traffic on this website, and in this hobby in general, is due to IFRA regulations, and poor reformulations by "respected" houses?

    Discuss...

    PS:

    I stay here because I love fragrances, and always will
    I see the great reformulation debate to have actually enhanced the hobby, in terms of generating interest in not just the hobby, but also vintage scents in particular. Sure, a few people said it was an outrage and said they were leaving the hobby (some came back), but I think it's just like Creed with the batch code debates. Did people stop buying Creed? No, it just drew a lot of people into debates and sent some scrambling to obtain their "holy grail" batches. I still find great deals on vintage, but you do have to put the time in, which not everyone has. And most of us probably can sell the stuff we don't like or hardly ever use and then use that money to buy the few vintage we think we really want. The "good old days" had its positive aspects, but so does today!

  5. #35
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shycat View Post
    I enjoyed the post as well, mostly because I agree with it. I butchered it up to emphasize the bits that resonated with me, a bn'er back from a nine year absence.

    Past it, I tell you what I see. These regulations are irrelevant. There is nothing that can't be created in a fine chem lab. These past niche houses turning out junk are cashing in on their own tombstones, and I sincerely hope their founders made a mint on the sell-out for their own retirements.

    I am looking for the next generation of perfumers. Not the next perfumer who sold out his original name and adopted a new one to be "fresh." I mean the NEXT original thinker who never worked with real oakmoss so doesn't buy into replacing it with a single synthetic, or even five built into a standard issue 'accord.' The one who starts from scratch (-ish) and brings me something that widens my eyes. The one who brings beauty, development, complexity, and delight out of what he has at hand without whining out any mewling excuses.

    And please, God, the one who doesn't bring soap.
    Perfect delivery. I like that.

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  6. #36

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    A few years back people had a longer attention span, would be willing to put time into something. Optimism was also more in abundance. Nowadays the world spins on the same axis it did 100 years ago, a year is still about 365, but it moves faster than it ever has. People want everything right now preferably yesterday, mediums like ‘smart’phones and Facebook constantly interrupt natural trains of thought via incessant notifications, Twitter means thoughts are usually no shorter than a text message and patience is now also in short supply. The compounded effect is fundamentally a different type of mind from a decade ago which has led to a different kind of person.

    The world has gradually drifted (or been coerced) into an immature state of instant gratification and life-hacking is the order of the day. People don’t sign up to forums for the same reasons they did 10 or 15 years ago and there’s a definite wham-bam-thank-you-mam attitude at play.

    Basenoters that come and stay are in some form serious fragrance hobbyists, or at the very least are passionate about scents. A contributory culture has got to be nurtured to get the best out of the forum even if it means an occasional disagreement and someone getting their knuckles rapped. The alternative is a limp-wristed place where everyone just agrees with everyone else and knowledge remains in reluctant lurkers minds.

    Its a great platform and it can be better with some tweaks. There’s absolutely no reason why disagreements can’t lead to better insights as long as the exchanges are civil.

    There is probably also something to be said about the price to quality ratio that has been moving in the wrong direction for some time. The accessibility due to price of good quality fragrances for your average Joe Blow compared to 20 years ago is certainly a factor.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Facebook dilutes things a lot. There it is easier to catch attention with your last $500 purchase and you'll become a member of the elite when if you show you have some expensive stuff, even if you don't know sh** about perfumes. BTW, idiots that know nothing about perfumes is what fills that groups.
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Why not? This is very polite place where frag. knowledge is top notch and helpfully shared by very experiences members. Furthermore other interesting topics are discussed in intelligent and interesting manner as well

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  9. #39
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Initially I came to Basenotes for the directory, in addition to Fragrantica, but the forum is what got me hooked. I believe that the buy/sell/trade section here is not as active or I get the same results as with Facebook forums in which I always sell/swap/trade my postings, again not so much here. Also I like the fact that the wardrobe allows me to follow my constant growing collection.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    I use both fragrantica and basenotes. I am new to this, but do not see these as particularily inactive. Fragrantica seems to be better for labeling and showing off your wardrobe, basenotes better for nuanced discussion involving frags. I find myself looking at fragrantica for notes and performance polls, and then going to basenotes for discussion. I feel like fragranticas forums are pretty active, but less informative, informed, or meaningful. I prefer basenotes, and would say greater than 50 percent of my daily frag time is spent reading old basenotes forums. I dont know anyone in real life who cares one bit about colognes, and i think only know a few who own one bottle. This is the only place i find others who enjoy the hobby to converse, corroberate, or learn from. I am thankful for those who have previously contributed, and those who remain.

  11. #41

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    I have read a lot of old basenotes forums, too. Perhaps a lot of the 2000 lurkers everyday are doing that, too. I use the search engine a lot. A lot of things that could be said have already been said. And yet some people moan when a topic is started that is too familiar. There is always something new to learn here if you browse and join in the discussions.
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Is it possible simply that the longtime members have seen and discussed almost every topic other than new releases, and just now come on the site less frequently? While newer fragrance enthusiasts use Facebook etc.more? A combination of the two...

  13. #43

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by wood&leather View Post
    I literally lol'd in real life.

    Is this the only forum you've actively participated in? I've been in a couple fitness, language learning, and snowboarding forums and everyone talks about "the good ol days" 2009 - 2013. It's because of the explosion of Facebook/Instagram. They existed before but they really blew up back then and that sucked more and more people from the forums as social media platforms are vastly more efficient at sharing ideas with likeminded people. I still like browsing forums though because they're not as obnoxious as social media platforms.

    Forum traffic down due to IFRA regulations... just lmao.
    If you seriously think that people just left this forum, en masse, because "social media platforms are more efficient" then I don't know how to converse with that kind of naivety. So, human beings, anything but efficient, decided to become efficient roughly around the time that IFRA regulations began effecting fragrances on a large scale? Interesting! Why didn't I think of that?
    Last edited by cpp214; 3rd October 2018 at 07:00 AM.

  14. #44

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuigi View Post
    Is it possible simply that the longtime members have seen and discussed almost every topic other than new releases, and just now come on the site less frequently? While newer fragrance enthusiasts use Facebook etc.more? A combination of the two...
    Valid points I think. The 'seen it all before' syndrome.

    Maybe the site needs to be a bit more dynamic -- the ability to register 'likes' on certain posts for instance. This has been discussed before though and tends to polarise opinions.

  15. #45

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpp214 View Post
    If you seriously think that people just left this forum, en masse, because "social media platforms are more efficient" then I don't know how to converse with that kind of naivety. So, human beings, anything but efficient, decided to become efficient roughly around the time that IFRA regulations began effecting fragrances on a large scale? Interesting! Why didn't I think of that?
    multiple people seemed to agree with me. stay mad though.
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  16. #46

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    I have noticed a slowdown on the forums. I think that was inevitable. There have been some extremely active posters over the years who have started some threads which started discussions that drove a great deal of traffic. However, in the world we live in today, any passionate discussion leaves people feeling butt-hurt, which means people need to be banned from this site. So, the active and edgy discussions have been slowly eradicated from the site. And what we are left with is the "help me pick between these", "is this a fake", and "has this been reformulated"...
    I can see what you mean, there certainly seemed to be more handbags out around 2010 (which, considering that it's all about perfume, is quite funny really), but on the other hand this might also be one of the site's biggest strengths, it's civilised and friendly (even if it has to be enforced by a troop of mods ;-p). I enjoyed non-pc, everything goes troll sites in the past but it's also nice to have sites where there are no political topics and the usual trolling and baiting. Considering that Basenoters generally don't seem to be youngsters it seems quite appropriate. A relaxed safespace for fragrance users that offers information.

    I'd think many discover the site, go through a phase of perfume exploration, then they realise that they only can wear so much perfume before they expire and slow down.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Different generations pass the torch, mods enforce some moderation, the place is much more civilised than other forums.... psychos and trolls are quickly banned... there are times when threads are more interesting others when not..I relax coming here and sometimes you can have interesting exchanges of ideas and inspirations...

  18. #48
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    I like the forum format because it's not rushed or pressurizing - as Francolino says above, it's relaxing and so much more gracious than rapid-fire back-and-forths. Compared to other forums I've belonged to, Basenotes is quite active and engaging; any time of the day or night, clicking on New Posts brings up a host of threads about facets of that passion for fragrance that we all share. I don't know anything about the trading aspect of Basenotes or how it has developed or receded, as that has never been my focus; I just like sharing thoughts and experiences about a world that is both tangible and delicate as gossamer - in a word, magical. When life is stressful and current events wear me down, Basenotes is here to remind me that beauty still lives, and still matters.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnette View Post
    I like the forum format because it's not rushed or pressurizing - as Francolino says above, it's relaxing and so much more gracious than rapid-fire back-and-forths. Compared to other forums I've belonged to, Basenotes is quite active and engaging; any time of the day or night, clicking on New Posts brings up a host of threads about facets of that passion for fragrance that we all share. I don't know anything about the trading aspect of Basenotes or how it has developed or receded, as that has never been my focus; I just like sharing thoughts and experiences about a world that is both tangible and delicate as gossamer - in a word, magical. When life is stressful and current events wear me down, Basenotes is here to remind me that beauty still lives, and still matters.
    Amen to that!

  20. #50

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpp214 View Post
    If you seriously think that people just left this forum, en masse, because "social media platforms are more efficient" then I don't know how to converse with that kind of naivety. So, human beings, anything but efficient, decided to become efficient roughly around the time that IFRA regulations began effecting fragrances on a large scale? Interesting! Why didn't I think of that?
    The IFRA certainly had a part to play in shaping the way fragrances are today, however, many fragrance companies have also gone far beyond cutting out banned or reducing restricted ingredients. Cost cutting to this extent has homogenised designer fragrances into a generation of lacklustre chemical soups and real gems are few and far between. How much this has to do with the downtown in forum traffic is anyone’s guess but Big Social Media has almost certainly had an affect on the way all forums are used now and while a lot of us are still inclined to enjoy the forum platform, many younger peeps are probably just bypassing forums in favour of instasnapface.

    The good news is there are loads of people, myself included, who appreciate the interactions and knowledge sharing fostered by a forum environment. Even the reformulation pendulum is swinging back in the right direction for many companies/houses so I’m optimistic.

    Basenotes is a great forum and sure it’s not perfect, but neither are we.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    What percentage of the overall membership do you believe has cut back their participation here due to IFRA regs? I would think maybe 5%, and those would still want to discuss "vintage" frags and want to buy or swap for the now harder to get ones.

  22. #52

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    I can see what you mean, there certainly seemed to be more handbags out around 2010 (which, considering that it's all about perfume, is quite funny really), but on the other hand this might also be one of the site's biggest strengths, it's civilised and friendly (even if it has to be enforced by a troop of mods ;-p). I enjoyed non-pc, everything goes troll sites in the past but it's also nice to have sites where there are no political topics and the usual trolling and baiting. Considering that Basenoters generally don't seem to be youngsters it seems quite appropriate. A relaxed safespace for fragrance users that offers information.

    I'd think many discover the site, go through a phase of perfume exploration, then they realise that they only can wear so much perfume before they expire and slow down.
    Right. Having stepped away from forums for so long I can't help but think of all the things that came with the territory that are strangely absent from Basenotes. Every forum had a degree of hazing... new members were treated like crap, lurkers were treated like crap, anyone without paid status was treated like crap, from paid to non-paid... treated like crap. It was an aspirational thing to get your post count up to not be treated like crap. And I think today's generation has it right in realizing how stupid all of that was. But as is their right... they've brought their own new and stupid things to the table.

    I can definitely appreciate the older crowd minus all the drama that made forums what they were. It's funny at times, but I can also appreciate how eloquent some of you can be. It raises the baseline for what passes muster. As for the seen it all done it all (or seen enough) I'd say that's very much a thing too. I'm like that with my music. I like what I like. I can't be bought or sold and there's nothing I even want to say about it good or bad. And it's nothing personal if you turn your music on and I leave the room it's just that I've found myself and anything else is a waste of time. I can respect that sentiment in any hobby.

  23. #53

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Could you please explain to newbie, what IFRA did and how it affected basenotes?

  24. #54
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by GioB89 View Post
    Could you please explain to newbie, what IFRA did and how it affected basenotes?
    My understanding is that IFRA restricted ingredients, and made it harder for currently-available perfumes to compare favorably to perfumes from the past, which made it less fun to discuss and get excited about the current market and new releases.

  25. #55
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bavard View Post
    My understanding is that IFRA restricted ingredients, and made it harder for currently-available perfumes to compare favorably to perfumes from the past, which made it less fun to discuss and get excited about the current market and new releases.
    While we are on this topic I have always wondered why all the perfumers and perfume brands out there have never thought of a way round this?? I mean they must read the thousands of comments about how numerous fragrances have lost their strength/depth/character or no longer really smell like what they used to?? I understand IFRA but surely they have the skill and know how to create chemical substitutes for certain notes??
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  26. #56
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Man Of The World View Post
    While we are on this topic I have always wondered why all the perfumers and perfume brands out there have never thought of a way round this?? I mean they must read the thousands of comments about how numerous fragrances have lost their strength/depth/character or no longer really smell like what they used to?? I understand IFRA but surely they have the skill and know how to create chemical substitutes for certain notes??
    I guess they don't really care, a SA in a Dior boutique and several other shop owners told me that just 5% of their costumers knew about scents, most of the others only want to know what is new...at a local Sephora they ordered only one flacon of Antaeus for me because I was the only one person purchasing it... so I guess they keep bland formulas just for their classics but as soon as the novelty effect has vanished the scent will be discontinued...

  27. #57
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    +1
    Also:
    One small but possible turn off is the fact that "Scent of the Day" appears as the topic on the home Forum page for the male and female forums seemingly 90% of the time. So anyone quickly looking for an interesting discussion may be turned off, thinking that the chat on those forums is not very interesting and that all members want to do is just name what they are wearing. Can't there be a separate forum or section for that?

  28. #58

    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    Quote Originally Posted by stuigi View Post
    +1
    Also:
    One small but possible turn off is the fact that "Scent of the Day" appears as the topic on the home Forum page for the male and female forums seemingly 90% of the time. So anyone quickly looking for an interesting discussion may be turned off, thinking that the chat on those forums is not very interesting and that all members want to do is just name what they are wearing. Can't there be a separate forum or section for that?
    It also shows up as the top conversations in Tapatalk too. Usually the top two constantly. Kind of annoying.


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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    I, too, have wondered why Scent of the Day does not have a dedicated area of the forum.

  30. #60
    Basenotes Plus

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
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    Default Re: So...what happened to Basenotes? And why do you stay here?

    I guess I am not alone. Anyone else?




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