Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Red apples?!

  1. #1

    Default Red apples?!

    I'm trying to make a really pretty red apple rose peony scent. It's just about done and it's nice. The only problem is in the center of the fragrance it smells "like a doll's head". I'm not sure what's causing the powder effect in the upper and middle notes but I do know what the ingredients to make it a red apple instead of a green one are part of it. Like red berry and strawberry ac's. But I do want that waxy red apple smell as opposed to green apple. So bouncing ideas off the wall my question is in order to counteract the doll smell do you think I should add more green apple or more exotic/pineapple notes?

  2. #2
    Basenotes Junkie

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    parma
    Posts
    566

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    ""... I should add more green apple or more exotic/pineapple notes?""
    Imho, the seconds. (isoamyl isovalerate,etc.etc.), a little bit..

  3. #3

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Quote Originally Posted by RSG View Post
    I'm trying to make a really pretty red apple rose peony scent. It's just about done and it's nice. The only problem is in the center of the fragrance it smells "like a doll's head". I'm not sure what's causing the powder effect in the upper and middle notes but I do know what the ingredients to make it a red apple instead of a green one are part of it. Like red berry and strawberry ac's. But I do want that waxy red apple smell as opposed to green apple. So bouncing ideas off the wall my question is in order to counteract the doll smell do you think I should add more green apple or more exotic/pineapple notes?
    Kind of difficult to say what the issue is without knowing what you have in there but I don't really get berry and strawberry in red apples unless you are going for a fantasy note. Alpha damascone could be helpful

  4. #4

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    What about carnuba oil for the fresh waxed scent?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Manzanate has a red apple cider vibe, Verdox HC can help smooth it out.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    It does have manzanate, fructone and verdox in it as well as many other green apple ingredients. I looked up a bunch of references on red apples and found that the scent of red is contributed to by pineapple type smells as well as strawberry glycidate and fructulate. I used many waxy ingredients but they are in the base notes so it's weird that it smells sooo much like doll head in the upper middle notes. However what I want is essentially there doll head and all. Just wandering is green apple the counteraction to doll head or is exotic pineapple??

  7. #7

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Well then keep doll head just as it is and call it doll head. Apparently people are looking for that. What do you use for peony smell?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    You should checkout Coniferan Pure, it has a pear-like aspect that is reminiscent of apples, I will try and make a concoction with Manzanate, Verdox HC and Coniferan Pure and see what I get.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    The main thing was peomosa, syringaldehyde but also materials that intersect rose, peony, and muguet florals. There's a lot in there and maybe that is part of what is contributing the powedery smell like cyclamen aldehyde maybe?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Yeah the foral aspects are possibly creating that powdery scent. On another note I surprisingly made a yellow apple accord with my above ingredients: 42dr ethanol, 8 dr Verdox HC, 12 dr Coniferan Pure, 1dr Manzanate 10%.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    I have no idea until I learn more, I thought powdery was a high Ph thing. Or lack of oils.
    You know this is similar to a Jo Malone peony, maybe you can sample it and see if it is powdery too.

    Meanwhile, as Barbie wanna-be in waiting room for plastic surgery, perusing web for this 'Dollhead' fragrance you speak of, to spray on their scalp!
    Just a thought.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Powdery has different meanings like powdery like face powder which is ionones and powder like cosmetics which is ionones and rose materials as well as a generic powder made from base note materials like vanilla, heliotropin, and musks.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    I wonder if anybody knows how Manzanate macerates over time. Does it lose that bitter cider aspect or does it get stronger when diluted with ethanol and other materials?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    I also am wondering... did you put Iso E Super in there at sometime.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    So I have figure out that in the 20-45hr range I have not put enough green or pineapple so I will be experimenting with adding more triplal, verdalia, hexalon, isopentyrate. This section that goes all doll headed is the worst. Everything else is fantastic. Estery explosion of peony apple from top to bottom. I could take things out but I have room to add

  16. #16

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Yeah I think when working with strong fruity notes it's best to wait a few days to see how they react with the blend.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Manzanate stays very tart and smells similar to nail polish remover but it is a lot softer. Definitely has the peeling a green apple or just biting into one note. It's fantastic! I have mine diluted to 10%

  18. #18

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Make it more pineapple.. and call it Dole head

  19. #19

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Quote Originally Posted by julian35 View Post
    Make it more pineapple.. and call it Dole head
    love it!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Maybe a small amount of ethyl safranate?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    I added both green and pineapple and it fixed the flat waxy powdery part. It's really fantastic. Smells like walking into a cooler full of waxy, red, ripe, rose-scented apples at Costco. The apple scent continues unchanged for about an hour and then starts getting softer, rosier, and then petering out into peony. Thanks for everyone's suggestions!
    Last edited by RSG; 24th November 2018 at 08:04 AM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Sounds awesome, congratulations on getting that exactly as you wished. I saw in another post you talked about selling. Do you sell at markets, or online?

  23. #23

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    RSG- post is buried now but I ended up buying those things you recommended for ozone - PRECYCLEMONE B , HELIONAL. Have not tried much with the helional because it seemed too similar to the other and did not last, but precyclemone really is so strong, and locked everything in ozone and lasted for 24 hours. I think I recognized it in some samples I have, a cologne named UOMO. Same smell after 24hrs, same 'can't wash it off' even with bar soap.
    Spot on, thanks!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    You might use just a hint of raspberry ketone.

    Ethyl butyrate may be another important one for red apple aroma.

    Here's some information about the aroma differences of different apple varieties:
    Apple volatile production has been categorised according to: type and quantity of esters or alcohols (Dirinck & Schamp 1989; Paillard 1990), aroma production pattern (Dirinck & Schamp 1989), skin colour (Paillard 1979), or C6 aldehydes (Paillard 1990). Ester type cultivars are categorised according to types of esters: acetate ester types ('Calville Blanc', 'Golden Delicious'), butanoate ester types ('Belle de Boskoop', 'Canada Blanc', 'Richared'), propanoate ester types ('Reinette du Mans', 'Richared', 'Starking'), and ethanolic ester types ('Starking') (Paillard 1990). Yellow-skinned cultivars have been reported to produce mainly acetic acid esters and red-skinned cultivars mostly butyric acid esters (Paillard 1979). High concentrations of hexyl acetate and butyl acetate were considered to characterise 'Cox's Orange Pippin', 'Elstar', 'Golden Delicious', 'Jonagold' and 'Jublie Delbar', with 'Granny Smith', 'Nico', 'Paulared', and 'Summerred' being characterised by high concentrations of ethyl butanoate and hexan-1 ol and 'Boskoop' and 'Jacques Lebel' characterised by a-famesene and hexyl 2-methyl butanoate (Dirinck & Schamp 1989). Concentration of C6 aldehydes for 'Cox's Orange Pippin' and 'Jonathan' apples was 4— 5 times that of ' Golden Delicious ' for hexanal and 100fold more for /ra/w-2-hexenal (Paillard 1990). Apple cultivars also differ in concentrations of other volatiles such as 4-methoxyllylbenzene (a spice-like aroma compound, according to an English sensory panel) which can constitute up to 0.27% of headspace volatiles in some cultivars (Williams et al. 1977).

  25. #25

    Default Re: Red apples?!

    Helional is like salicylates. Weak but also surprisingly strong. A great thing is to make really good accords of both helional and precyclemone. A few ratios to try.
    10:1
    1:1
    2:1
    1:.5




Similar Threads

  1. Apples to Pears ? - 24 Gold and One Million
    By TurnerIII in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 8th August 2018, 08:52 PM
  2. Who does apples the best?
    By romeocasido in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 31st July 2014, 01:23 PM
  3. Caramelized red apples
    By MikeDropIt in forum Just Starting Out
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11th December 2012, 02:47 AM
  4. Non cloying apples & cinnamon fragrance?
    By irrbloss in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 21st November 2008, 11:48 AM
  5. Fragrance that smells like spiced apples?
    By makor in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10th October 2007, 09:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000