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  1. #1

    Default Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Hello,

    I am a very new here and this is my first post, so I am sorry if my question seems to simple, but I cannot crack it down.
    I've been creating a natural perfume for my mum with patchouli dominating. I want it to be fresh, elegant, floral and woody. I want to use only natural ingredients. So far I am very happy with the top note, but when it comes to the mid and base, they dont smell that well.

    What do you think I should change in my formula? As for now, the scent is too soapy and the patchouli note - alone so beautiful - is neither well visible nor open - but only closed.

    I will be enormously grateful for your remarks. Here is my formula:

    patchouli 8%
    amber accord 6%
    Frankincense olibanum 7%
    vetiver 3%
    cedarwood atlas 6%
    rose de mai 8%
    jasmin sambac 6%
    cassia 3%
    neroli 7%
    phenylethyl alcohol 6%
    geranium bourbon 5%
    mandarine 10%
    Bergamot 5%
    Coriander 3%
    Lemon 3%
    Geraniol 4%
    Linalool 6%
    Citronellol 3%

    Thank you again.
    Andreas

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Hard to evaluate without knowing the amber accord and quality of the naturals; but for a first glance i would think double or even tripple the top notes *). I can imagine it will become 'clogged' by the relative high amounts of base notes. Sounds contra-intuitive but your patchouli might open up whit a less dosage of base notes and even reduced by itself.

    *) for an easy start, take some of your ready composition, and add top notes only in a few different ratios, and evaluate (don't forget to take exact measurements and notes for reconstruction later!)

    Happy perfuming
    Please visit my blog for a listing of all my free formulas

  3. #3

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    The amber note is exactly Cistus ladaniferus Leaf. In terms of the quality of the materials I believe it's pretty high as I ordered them from Hermitage Oils.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    I agree with Jeroen. Try leaving off the vetiver altogether and decreasing the labdanum and see if the patchouli doesn't open up more.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    What they said... also, have you considered adding Firmenich's Clearwood (patchouli alcohol) to your formula? It is a 100% natural product (and I believe it's a green/sustainable synthesis method) and is a soft, clean, powdery patchouli note. Typical patchouli EO from Indonesia ranges from ~20-30% patchouli alcohol. I find that it lends an elegant touch to blends where you don't want the musty/dirty note that can come from typical patchouli oils.
    Last edited by runstile; 22nd October 2018 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Corrected descriptor


  6. #6

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    I would remove cedar atlas and see if it gets better.

  7. #7
    Basenotes Junkie

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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    absolutely lowers all those ingredients of the rose,halve
    (rose de mai 8%
    neroli 7%
    phenylethyl alcohol 6%
    geranium bourbon 5%
    Geraniol 4%
    Linalool 6%
    Citronellol 3%)
    ,this isn't a patchouli fragrance but a rose fragrance !
    Moreover:
    8% of E.O. of rose? Too much, halve.
    And 6% of cistus oil? Too much, halve
    6% Of Sambac? Halve
    To add some vanilla oil and benzoin (3/4%,about)
    To reverse bergamot and mandarin (10% berg and 5% mand)

  8. #8
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    If I were you, I would keep my base simple. Keep it more patchouli.
    patchouli 10%
    vetiver 1%
    amber 1%
    *vanillin 1-2%

    To the base I would add vanillin.
    Just to help marry the patchouli with the florals.

    I would keep the floral middle notes at around 1.5% each.
    That way, the florals won`t fight with the patchouli for attention.

    rose de mai 1.5%
    jasmin samba 1.5%
    geranium bourbon 1.5%

    Total florals = 4.5 %

    Maybe keep the Frankincense as at 7%
    Frank will help marry the top + middle notes together nicely.

    Neroli, and Cassia are strong stuff...
    Keep them at 1% each.


    Then, I would just up my citrus's as the guys above suggested.
    Try staying simple with bergamot. Bergamot and Frankincense blend nicely.

    I would`t include all the other natural you have listed in your formula.
    Or, if you DO decide to keep them, I would inject the other naturals in to the background at like .5% or less each. They will add complexity to your perfume, but if you keep them as a melange of background notes... they won`t interfere with your patchouli.

    *All JUST ideas, I too am a beginner.
    Matt
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  9. #9

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    I am not as experienced as above advice but wondering about these:

    geranium bourbon 5%
    Geraniol 4%
    Linalool 6%
    Citronellol 3%

    These are not really the most pleasant flower oils. While the tops of a geranium flower smells nice, the plant as a whole is kind of noxious. Linalool and citronel components are already in geranium so you are doubling up there, you have a total of 18% of natural pesticides there. That may be what you are finding not so enjoyable.
    Try a drop of each on your arm for an hour and see if that is it.
    They do smell good locked into lard and lye at pH 10 so you can use your formula to spray on soaps and gift that as well.

  10. #10
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Geco View Post
    absolutely lowers all those ingredients of the rose,halve
    (rose de mai 8%
    neroli 7%
    phenylethyl alcohol 6%
    geranium bourbon 5%
    Geraniol 4%
    Linalool 6%
    Citronellol 3%)
    ,this isn't a patchouli fragrance but a rose fragrance !
    Moreover:
    8% of E.O. of rose? Too much, halve.
    And 6% of cistus oil? Too much, halve
    6% Of Sambac? Halve
    To add some vanilla oil and benzoin (3/4%,about)
    To reverse bergamot and mandarin (10% berg and 5% mand)
    I completely agree. Too much rose material!
    Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol AND rosewood? Dear lord...way too much rose stuff in there!
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    There is no lavender in your formula, have you tried that?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Gardener View Post
    There is no lavender in your formula, have you tried that?
    No, I actually havent.
    I dont have vanillin, so decided to put 1% of myrtle to blend the florals with the base.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    I completely agree. Too much rose material!
    Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol AND rosewood? Dear lord...way too much rose stuff in there!
    You are absolutely right. Moreover, citronellol is destroying much in this formulation.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    If you are using 8% or so of real Rose de Mai then you don't need the rose alcohols otherwise I don't really see a problem. You can make your oen very nice rose note with Phenylethy Alcohol, Citronellol and Geraniol. Geranium EO, which smells nothing like the camphorous plant someone mentioned above, makes a nice addition to a rose accord as does linalool. Keep in mind also that these rose notes are heart notes and won't last all that long into your scent anyway, so if it is dominate it will be only for about a 1/4 of the scent.

    By the way, Clearwood is the camphorous part of patchouli and it a wonderful material on it's own or as part of a patchouli accord. It is massively diffusive and long-lived.

    In any case, mastering your materials will be the largest step as to getting these blends the way you want them.

  15. #15
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Thea in Fl View Post
    I am not as experienced as above advice but wondering about these:

    geranium bourbon 5%
    Geraniol 4%
    Linalool 6%
    Citronellol 3%

    These are not really the most pleasant flower oils. While the tops of a geranium flower smells nice, the plant as a whole is kind of noxious. Linalool and citronel components are already in geranium so you are doubling up there, you have a total of 18% of natural pesticides there. That may be what you are finding not so enjoyable.
    Try a drop of each on your arm for an hour and see if that is it.
    They do smell good locked into lard and lye at pH 10 so you can use your formula to spray on soaps and gift that as well.
    Thea,
    I accidentally stumbled upon a woody-rosey harmony, by putting Cedra Atlantica smell strip beside a Dorinia scent strip...
    Turns out the Cedra Atlantica does a nice job of blending with the rose.
    You might want to give a try out, if you haven`t already?

    I`ve haven't found too many uses for Atlantica, but seems nice with Dorinia/Rose type scents
    M
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  16. #16
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by pierpaolo72 View Post
    I would remove cedar atlas and see if it gets better.

    I accidentally stumbled upon a woody-rosey harmony, by putting Cedra Atlantica smell strip beside a Dorinia scent strip...
    Turns out the Cedra Atlantica does a nice job of blending with the rose.
    You might want to give a try out, if you haven`t already?

    I`ve haven't found too many uses for Atlantica, but seems nice with Dorinia/Rose type scents
    M
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  17. #17

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Well, the theme was Natural Patchouli Perfume, wasn't it?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    I accidentally stumbled upon a woody-rosey harmony, by putting Cedra Atlantica smell strip beside a Dorinia scent strip...
    Turns out the Cedra Atlantica does a nice job of blending with the rose.
    You might want to give a try out, if you haven`t already?

    M
    Of course I haven't I can't even get through shopping for a few synthetics. I do see that almost everyone uses geranium in a rose accord, I DO have to try. Maybe I am going to to look for that one, it is Firmenich and I have to go back and see who carries that... I have a deodar cedar bonsai that can be cut.!
    anyway yes back to the patchouli.....

    Did you make any changes Andreas?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Thea in Fl View Post
    Of course I haven't I can't even get through shopping for a few synthetics. I do see that almost everyone uses geranium in a rose accord, I DO have to try. Maybe I am going to to look for that one, it is Firmenich and I have to go back and see who carries that... I have a deodar cedar bonsai that can be cut.!
    anyway yes back to the patchouli.....

    Did you make any changes Andreas?
    Yes, I followed the suggestion from above. Increased Patchouli to about 10%, nearly tripled top notes and decreased florals. It does scent much better and patchouli opened up beautifully. It s still a bit too harsh in terms of the final Patchouli note and I ordered Clearwood by Firmenich to give it a try. I am also working on the relation of Patchouli, Amber and Frank. The way Frank and Bergamot play together is so beautiful.
    I will update soon and present the final formulation I went for.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by I.D.Adam View Post

    By the way, Clearwood is the camphorous part of patchouli and it a wonderful material on it's own or as part of a patchouli accord. It is massively diffusive and long-lived.
    Ah, sorry about the wrong descriptor (camphoraceous), changed it to musty/dirty. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Andreas, excited for your impressions of Clearwood, I think you will find it useful.


  21. #21

    Default Re: Natural Patchouli Perfume - problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 3210andreas View Post
    Yes, I followed the suggestion from above. Increased Patchouli to about 10%, nearly tripled top notes and decreased florals. It does scent much better and patchouli opened up beautifully. It s still a bit too harsh in terms of the final Patchouli note and I ordered Clearwood by Firmenich to give it a try. I am also working on the relation of Patchouli, Amber and Frank. The way Frank and Bergamot play together is so beautiful.
    I will update soon and present the final formulation I went for.
    One of the better ways to soften patchouli is by sweetening and the most typical and likely popular is vanillin or a vanilla analogue. That said, labdanum is a good patchouli tamer as well and I'll throw in benzoin and you now have an amber note to go with your patchouli. Of course you could shop for an aged patchouli as it softens over time. Commercially, 5 year old patchouli is pretty commonly available. I don't think you'll find Clearwood effective as a patchouli softener but rather an extender of one facet. Very useful and very common in modern perfumes but it may not be the right thing for your creation.

    In any case, good luck and keep giving updates.

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