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  1. #1
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    Benzyl Acetate is more diffusive than Benzyl Salicylate...
    Is this a general rule?

    Are Acetates generally more powerful than Salicylates?

    Thanks guys
    Matthew
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    It's not a matter of just diffusive. I don't even know what that word means. Most salicylates have low vapor pressures so they last a long time. Even if they have a somewhat flat smell or no smell neat they do change a mixture and have an effect that is sometimes quite noticeable.

    Most acetates are top notes with really high vapor pressures that leap off the skin. They are not more powerful as such but they are more like a pushy mob all trying to get through a single door.

    However, there are exceptions to every rule. Hexyl salicylate is a top/mid-note and rose acetate is a base note.

    I think I will tell you the same advice other noobies have received. Too much work on the theory and philosophy and not enough actual mixing, making formulas, comparisons, trials and actually getting to know your materials personally. Whatever theory you have now will be completely different once you try to use it to make a 35+ line item formula with national museum of art appeal.

    In my opinion, I hear you use a lot of words like diffusiveness or background that don't mean anything to me and imo aren't useful if they make you think hedione, iso e super and musks are anywhere in the same neighborhood. Also not useful to be conflating all acetates and salicylates.

    I also read a statement to the effect of conflating the quality of the materials to their usefulness. Dude quality is one thing in an aged patchouli or in an uncontaminated AC but other than that it is illusion of material snobbery. All materials fulfill a purpose for the perfumer who uses them for that purpose. A real artist doesn't hate brown. Brown is as special a friend as yellow since yellow can't do the job of brown.

    Hedione is a jasmine material that nevertheless can be used in many other ways. Iso e super is a cedar amber material that never the less lives in my cedar drawer. Great for masculine compositions but also feminine and chocolate and many other things.

    Experiment more hands on. Make a black musk, make an orchid, make a lotus reconstruction, make a vanilla reconstruction from a gcms, make an ivy accord, make a blood orange reconstruction, make a forest smell, make a snow smell, make a true to life lilac, find your favorite body soap and recreate the scent, find your favorite dryer sheet and recreate the scent, read a gcms of the drug opium and recreate it, make a children's perfume, pick a favorite food and recreate it, make a fresh edible strawberry, go to the store and smell samples and recreate a celebrity perfume, make a fantasy wisteria note, make something for every person you know. Make a metallic cherry scent that never the less doesn't smell like cough syrup or candy. Make a smell like cranberries dipped in the ocean, make a long lasting lavender recreation. Make the smell of an elderberry thicket on fire, make ink, books, salt.

    Night lady cactus only blooms for one night recreate that, make chai tea, make the fruit star apple, make a scent for the word argent. Make things, work on them until they are perfect, post formulas for us to pick apart so everyone can improve on composition.

    You are lost in the trees; I give you permission to fly over the forest with the wings you already have and make beautiful things!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    RSG - Materials discretion is the embodiment of fine artistry.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    Quote Originally Posted by RSG View Post
    It's not a matter of just diffusive. I don't even know what that word means. Most salicylates have low vapor pressures so they last a long time. Even if they have a somewhat flat smell or no smell neat they do change a mixture and have an effect that is sometimes quite noticeable.

    Most acetates are top notes with really high vapor pressures that leap off the skin. They are not more powerful as such but they are more like a pushy mob all trying to get through a single door.

    However, there are exceptions to every rule. Hexyl salicylate is a top/mid-note and rose acetate is a base note.

    I think I will tell you the same advice other noobies have received. Too much work on the theory and philosophy and not enough actual mixing, making formulas, comparisons, trials and actually getting to know your materials personally. Whatever theory you have now will be completely different once you try to use it to make a 35+ line item formula with national museum of art appeal.

    In my opinion, I hear you use a lot of words like diffusiveness or background that don't mean anything to me and imo aren't useful if they make you think hedione, iso e super and musks are anywhere in the same neighborhood. Also not useful to be conflating all acetates and salicylates.

    I also read a statement to the effect of conflating the quality of the materials to their usefulness. Dude quality is one thing in an aged patchouli or in an uncontaminated AC but other than that it is illusion of material snobbery. All materials fulfill a purpose for the perfumer who uses them for that purpose. A real artist doesn't hate brown. Brown is as special a friend as yellow since yellow can't do the job of brown.

    Hedione is a jasmine material that nevertheless can be used in many other ways. Iso e super is a cedar amber material that never the less lives in my cedar drawer. Great for masculine compositions but also feminine and chocolate and many other things.

    Experiment more hands on. Make a black musk, make an orchid, make a lotus reconstruction, make a vanilla reconstruction from a gcms, make an ivy accord, make a blood orange reconstruction, make a forest smell, make a snow smell, make a true to life lilac, find your favorite body soap and recreate the scent, find your favorite dryer sheet and recreate the scent, read a gcms of the drug opium and recreate it, make a children's perfume, pick a favorite food and recreate it, make a fresh edible strawberry, go to the store and smell samples and recreate a celebrity perfume, make a fantasy wisteria note, make something for every person you know. Make a metallic cherry scent that never the less doesn't smell like cough syrup or candy. Make a smell like cranberries dipped in the ocean, make a long lasting lavender recreation. Make the smell of an elderberry thicket on fire, make ink, books, salt.

    Night lady cactus only blooms for one night recreate that, make chai tea, make the fruit star apple, make a scent for the word argent. Make things, work on them until they are perfect, post formulas for us to pick apart so everyone can improve on composition.

    You are lost in the trees; I give you permission to fly over the forest with the wings you already have and make beautiful things!
    Yes, Benzyl Acetate certainly DOES leap off my paper testing strips!
    I love your experimental approach, and I love the unique and different ways each one of the base noters use in their developing relationships with their materials,
    Wonderful stuff! It`s all very good.
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  5. #5
    Basenotes Junkie mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thea in Fl View Post
    RSG - Materials discretion is the embodiment of fine artistry.

    Yes, I agree. I think RSG is saying the same thing as you, in different words..no? :-)
    “Candy is full of taste. But so is shit, because taste is full of smell.”
    - Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title

  6. #6

    Default Re: Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    I think it's just one of those paradoxes in all art forms. Like negative space being more important to one person than another. RSG would probably get mildly annoyed with something like "It's more about what you don't smell than what you do smell" ... yet that is the approach someone like me would take creating rain, for instance.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are acetates generally more powerful and diffusive than salicylate?

    I do like green a lot though..

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