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  1. #1

    Default Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Just wondering where the best quality oak Moss/birch tar to get. I want to experiment, because I can't do these femmenine type Aventus batches of new. I want to add the masculinity in it. (Well some blow me awayike 15Y11, can't imagine how great it would be with a hint of smoke..)

    Thanks in advance, and I believe this is in the right spot because I'm not Creating a fragrance, I'm simply altering Aventus.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Get the oil or absolute. Oakmoss can be had at 10%. Cut to .01 or .05 with Everclear. I spray each place first.

    I have made a 5% pineapple I use to bring that back, but a LIGHT hit of I2P first will do that too.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sethr View Post
    Get the oil or absolute. Oakmoss can be had at 10%. Cut to .01 or .05 with Everclear. I spray each place first.

    I have made a 5% pineapple I use to bring that back, but a LIGHT hit of I2P first will do that too.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
    Oh ok thanks. I'm trying to bring back the 13Z01. Or atleast something like it? I smelled a 3ml of it and it is 100% amazing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    I got mine from piping rock, you only need a small amount unless you're doing alkaline washing.

    Dephenolized birch tar is basically the fractionated (alkaline washed) version of birch that creates the leathery essence (like treated tannery leather) it removes the inherent meaty phenolic smoke, I had a science experiment doing this with the help of a professional earlier last year on basenotes and conjured up a batch of the stuff, still experimenting with as I love leather scents. I recommend the betula alba birch tree bark tar. The guy I worked with also told me that cade fractionated down smells like pure sunlight, tried it myself but the cade I had wouldn't fraction off.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Here's an interesting website with an oil

    https://www.theflamingcandle.com/can...fragrance-oil/

    And here's another one

    http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com...rance-oil.aspx

    Don't know much about mixing etc, but I know you have to dilute the oils (Cade birch etc) with perfumers alcohol, and then add some to the throaway decant.

    Possibly more vanilla, you know come to think of it, 13Z01 has a big vanilla vibe going on almost immediately, (after a few minutes), next to the pineapple, this all blends perfectly with the smoke.
    And in the drydown, the vanilla is even more present with some woodiness?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lleblanc1986 View Post
    Here's an interesting website with an oil

    https://www.theflamingcandle.com/can...fragrance-oil/

    And here's another one

    http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com...rance-oil.aspx

    Don't know much about mixing etc, but I know you have to dilute the oils (Cade birch etc) with perfumers alcohol, and then add some to the throaway decant.

    Possibly more vanilla, you know come to think of it, 13Z01 has a big vanilla vibe going on almost immediately, (after a few minutes), next to the pineapple, this all blends perfectly with the smoke.
    And in the drydown, the vanilla is even more present with some woodiness?
    Ya you'll probably need to dilute the birch tar down to like 1%, even then it's pretty strong and the liquid will still be an amber color. I don't recommend buying those fragrance oils as they use the same ingredients like birch tar etc, and cedarwood is not what you're looking for imo.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    Ya you'll probably need to dilute the birch tar down to like 1%, even then it's pretty strong and the liquid will still be an amber color. I don't recommend buying those fragrance oils as they use the same ingredients like birch tar etc, and cedarwood is not what you're looking for imo.
    Oh ok. I'll just experiment with the Cade/Birch tar and perfumers alcohol. I already ruined a sample (2ml) of Aventus 15Y11 with birch tar lol. Even a pin drop was too much. It overpowered and took over. Which I was just experimenting on. The PA will be in tomorrow i hope, and I'll mix and add the Birch and Cade to it, (more Alcohol) and dilute it. Then I'll let it settle, and post the results.
    I might need to add more, Vanilla. Because the vanilla is strong within the 13Z01. I wore it today and am still blown away by it. They must have experimented different on 13Z01 because it is like no other in the same year. They must have decided to try Smoke, Vanilla, and pineapple, with a woody aromatic drydown.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    You don’t need to dilute the oils before with alcohol...

    Just add a needle pin drop of birch tar into 100ml of aventus, shake well and wait 2-3 days for it to be well blended together and here you go! You will have a nice smoky roasted pineapple vibe similar to vintage.
    KEEP
    CALM
    AND
    SMELL
    GOOD

  9. #9

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolce_Vita87 View Post
    You don’t need to dilute the oils before with alcohol...

    Just add a needle pin drop of birch tar into 100ml of aventus, shake well and wait 2-3 days for it to be well blended together and here you go! You will have a nice smoky roasted pineapple vibe similar to vintage.
    I don't have a 100ml of Aventus to blow just in case. Only a couple of 5ml -10ml samples. 16M01_17W01 and 18G02. And can order a few more, or whatever to experiment on. So I'll Have to dilute it. Also, possibly more vanilla, 13z01 supposedly the holy grail batch, an people are missing the fact that it's Vanilla heavy with smoke, and some pineapple. I could be ass backwards, but this is what my nose is picking up. Don't know why the most sought after batch isn't analyzed as much as others

  10. #10
    Dependent Dolce_Vita87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lleblanc1986 View Post
    I don't have a 100ml of Aventus to blow just in case. Only a couple of 5ml -10ml samples. 16M01_17W01 and 18G02. And can order a few more, or whatever to experiment on. So I'll Have to dilute it. Also, possibly more vanilla, 13z01 supposedly the holy grail batch, an people are missing the fact that it's Vanilla heavy with smoke, and some pineapple. I could be ass backwards, but this is what my nose is picking up. Don't know why the most sought after batch isn't analyzed as much as others
    You will never ruin 100ml with juste ONE needle drop

    Also, the supposedly holy batch is 11Z01 and not 13Z01
    KEEP
    CALM
    AND
    SMELL
    GOOD

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolce_Vita87 View Post
    You will never ruin 100ml with juste ONE needle drop

    Also, the supposedly holy batch is 11Z01 and not 13Z01
    Most people say it is both. I'm also (I know it's beside the point) going to add a smoke effect to Grand Soir, just to see what happens.
    I hear 11Z01 is a mostly pineapple batch, but if you look at most other batches lots are pineapple heavy, I just don't see that being a big deal. But the prices obviously say otherwise guess I would have to smell it myself.

  12. #12
    Dependent Dolce_Vita87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    11Z01 is a pineapple heavy batch but still with the smoke. Its just that the pineapple stand out more in this one instead of being more balanced or more smoky but you definitely smell the smoke in it. Not like the modern pineapple heavy batches.
    KEEP
    CALM
    AND
    SMELL
    GOOD

  13. #13

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Oh ok

  14. #14

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    How do you administer a 'pin head' of birch tar? Is it as simple as dipping the head of a needle into birch and then into your aventus or is there a more precise instrument that can be used?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    I highly advise anyone from spiking their Aventus bottles with birch tar, there's an older thread of people doing this same exact thing and ruining their bottles, always test on a smaller glass atomizer of 3-10ml, and I hope you're diluting the birch tar down to 1%. It's far cheaper to buy some atomizers, pipettes and 200 grain alcohol than to replace a 100ml Aventus that you ruined, don't underestimate what I'm saying here. Birch tar oil is extremely hard to work with and it likely won't turn out how you hoped the first few tries, never inject your bottles!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    I highly advise anyone from spiking their Aventus bottles with birch tar, there's an older thread of people doing this same exact thing and ruining their bottles, always test on a smaller glass atomizer of 3-10ml, and I hope you're diluting the birch tar down to 1%. It's far cheaper to buy some atomizers, pipettes and 200 grain alcohol than to replace a 100ml Aventus that you ruined, don't underestimate what I'm saying here. Birch tar oil is extremely hard to work with and it likely won't turn out how you hoped the first few tries, never inject your bottles!
    This is true. It HAS to be diluted with the grain alcohol, otherwise it will completely take over the scent and that's all you will smell.
    Diluted in alcohol should also help the projection of the smoke, than just putting in the Birch tar alone.
    The perfumers alcohol is taking a while to get here, but as soon as it does I will update. I will try Cade oil, and Birch tar....also, I smell a lot of Vanilla in 13Z01 and people say they smell blackcurrant in 13Z01, so I will possible buy some Vanilla essential oil, blackcurrant oil, (strong) and add some of that, and Birch tar , and or Cade (diluted) to the Aventus newer batches, and see if I can re create that 13,Z01 vibe. It's wrestling a giant, but to me, it might not be so far off..

  17. #17

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lleblanc1986 View Post
    This is true. It HAS to be diluted with the grain alcohol, otherwise it will completely take over the scent and that's all you will smell.
    Diluted in alcohol should also help the projection of the smoke, than just putting in the Birch tar alone.
    The perfumers alcohol is taking a while to get here, but as soon as it does I will update. I will try Cade oil, and Birch tar....also, I smell a lot of Vanilla in 13Z01 and people say they smell blackcurrant in 13Z01, so I will possible buy some Vanilla essential oil, blackcurrant oil, (strong) and add some of that, and Birch tar , and or Cade (diluted) to the Aventus newer batches, and see if I can re create that 13,Z01 vibe. It's wrestling a giant, but to me, it might not be so far off..
    Get cassis base from a perfumery retailer, it's the black currant that includes the bud and leaf and smells very sharp and fruity but also very potent so dilute it, I might suggest manzanate as well but that stuff is very strong and should be diluted to 10% minimum. Not sure how far you're planning to go but I luckily am already knee deep into perfumery and have many 1/2oz bottles of ingredients to mess with.
    IMG_20190103_204736146.jpg

  18. #18

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    Get cassis base from a perfumery retailer, it's the black currant that includes the bud and leaf and smells very sharp and fruity but also very potent so dilute it, I might suggest manzanate as well but that stuff is very strong and should be diluted to 10% minimum. Not sure how far you're planning to go but I luckily am already knee deep into perfumery and have many 1/2oz bottles of ingredients to mess with.
    IMG_20190103_204736146.jpg
    Nice! I would be having field day with all that. Are you on the path to bringing back some 13Z01, or Possibly 11Z01?
    Does cassis base have that vanilla vibe? I smell, like a fizzy vanilla with pineapple, with some smoke but not as heavy as in 2012 series. This is a different type of smoke..

  19. #19

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lleblanc1986 View Post
    Nice! I would be having field day with all that. Are you on the path to bringing back some 13Z01, or Possibly 11Z01?
    Does cassis base have that vanilla vibe? I smell, like a fizzy vanilla with pineapple, with some smoke but not as heavy as in 2012 series. This is a different type of smoke..
    No cassis has no vanilla it's just fruity, and be very careful with vanilla as it's one of the easiest to overdose in perfumery.
    I have tried but have had no success, I think I will need to learn far more about how chemicals interact and obtain even more ingredients but anyone could get lucky I guess. Nobody is even sure if it's birch oil that creates that smoky scent, although it's likely they used it, Creed has never admitted this. Most perfume companies aren't transparent about their ingredients for obvious reasons.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    No cassis has no vanilla it's just fruity, and be very careful with vanilla as it's one of the easiest to overdose in perfumery.
    I have tried but have had no success, I think I will need to learn far more about how chemicals interact and obtain even more ingredients but anyone could get lucky I guess. Nobody is even sure if it's birch oil that creates that smoky scent, although it's likely they used it, Creed has never admitted this. Most perfume companies aren't transparent about their ingredients for obvious reasons.
    Yeah I feel you. To bad idmt didn't work out, I know vanilla is easy to overcome, just the smell of that imitation vanilla flavoring... The Cade smells like BBQ sauce, I don't smell this in Aventus, so it is cancelled.
    You're right about the Birch, there is a different Type of smoke like a Roasted smoke in the earlier batches, 13Z01 is different though...almost gourmand? 11z01 I hear is mostly pineapple, but you can get that in mostly any batch, I remember a recent batch, 2017_ having a fruity pebbles vibe. (Or fruit loops) it was too sharp, but strong!
    There's Got to be a way to figure out what chemicals or not, that Creed used in their early batches of Aventus. There was a website I found that has a guy that charges to create Aventus, the price is pretty hefty and he names some chemicals and said it had been completely successful in recreating it.

    This was recent

  21. #21

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lleblanc1986 View Post
    Yeah I feel you. To bad idmt didn't work out, I know vanilla is easy to overcome, just the smell of that imitation vanilla flavoring... The Cade smells like BBQ sauce, I don't smell this in Aventus, so it is cancelled.
    You're right about the Birch, there is a different Type of smoke like a Roasted smoke in the earlier batches, 13Z01 is different though...almost gourmand? 11z01 I hear is mostly pineapple, but you can get that in mostly any batch, I remember a recent batch, 2017_ having a fruity pebbles vibe. (Or fruit loops) it was too sharp, but strong!
    There's Got to be a way to figure out what chemicals or not, that Creed used in their early batches of Aventus. There was a website I found that has a guy that charges to create Aventus, the price is pretty hefty and he names some chemicals and said it had been completely successful in recreating it.

    This was recent
    Cade and birch have a grilled meat smell that can get somewhat tuned out when diluted, birch (betula alba) leans in a sweeter direction with less of the grilled smell. That guy recreating Aventus probably got an expensive mass spectrometry of an old batch with the a list of it's constituents, I doubt it shows every detail but still.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Yeah in going to dilute it and look for that website.


    I found it! https://sites.google.com/site/perfum...reed-s-aventus

  23. #23

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lleblanc1986 View Post
    Yeah in going to dilute it and look for that website.


    I found it! https://sites.google.com/site/perfum...reed-s-aventus
    Yeah I've seen this befor, still need a few more aroma chemicals before i begin it. The main problem is that Creed uses very high end ingredients, some naturals that are unlikely be matched so the quality may not be the same. Creed is also known to use things called 'captive ingredients' stuff that are unavailable to public.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Damn, yeah that's got to be true. Aventus is super luxury, and the ingredients are rare, plus the you know who had to get involved. Rogue Perfumery is one of the good company that does their own thing..
    I'VE emailed them to see if they were interested in recreating the Aventus of old Vibe, as well as asking another high end company.. Neither are up to the challenge, which I don't really blame them.
    If I can be of any help let me know, also I'll keep investigating


    Update.
    I emailed the guy, here was his response.

    Dear L***
    Thank you for your inquiry. I am afraid I can’t do any copies. Besides it’s considered unethical, it is not possible due to the captives used by Creed.
    Best regards,
    J*****
    But this isn't the only guy on the Planet, and sure isn't the last one.
    Last edited by lleblanc1986; 5th January 2019 at 05:32 PM.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Unethical is a fancy word for incapable, there are so many clones in perfumery ethics literally don't exist. If anyone had a smack clone they would probably be best off refilling empty bottles and reselling them than trying to push another 'Aventus killer'. And yes, the captives Creed use make it extremely hard for even another designer company with limitless money to make a good copy, perfumery is the safest space in the cosmetics market.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Aventus simply can't currently be cloned due to the captives at play.

    Imagine the fragrance is a bus and it has 48 seats and in Aventus 30 of those are filled with special captive molecules the clonesharks hit a brick wall here because they only have the same amount of seats to play with but the aromachems they are putting in them just aren't as powerful/sparkly/ooh inducing as what Creed has access to, case in point:

    The Aventus bus contains 4 seats of ISO Gamma Super. In order to get the same effect the bathtub perfumers have to use 12 seats filled with ISO Super E, Timbersilk and Sylvamber in order to try and approximate the Gammas effect but even then its nowhere close to the real deal plus they've already lost 8 extra seats just trying to copy one element. Extrapolate this further and the other 3 captives are handled in similar "close enough" substitute fashion and you start seeing where the problem lies. Each time they do this there is a compounded knock on effect that takes the end result further and further away from the original as they try and make do with what they've got.

    This is why all of the clones miss the mark. You have some that approximate the top notes quite well, others take a stab at the mids, some get the base almost halfway there and occasionally you get something that has bits of all three but the performance is piss poor, not to mention how the actual raw ingredients/skill of blending is often woeful in these wannabe efforts.

    Its all about the seats on the bus.

    Also for those of you that are remixing your scent at home you'll notice again and again as you ruin your Aventus that even the tiniest amount of an "adulterant" completely overpowers/screws up the whole scent and this is due to how basic/simple the modern formula of Aventus is these days with 4 major ingredients doing all of the heavy lifting that defines the scent. This is also the reason why the modern juice is so linear. I spoke on it at length a while back and stated it was now like an official simplified clone of what it used to be as most of the components are the same but proportions/composition has been totally rejigged and those all important microdoses are no more.

    I played around with remixing this a while back and whilst it was fun and I created some interesting blends using my own accords it wasn't a patch on the vintage juice and frankly ruined all thats good about the modern one too because no matter how you go about adding the smoke back in (and smoke is a very complex accord however you make it due to how much is going on) its nigh on impossible to get the right balance which is essential in getting the old effect of shimmering transparency where the smoke acted as a filter that the rest of the scent shone through as thats what gave it its clean with a dirty edge effect like looking at a hot summers day from behind shades. Adding dark stuff into on the other hand just makes it smell like a dirty window thats had a tiny part of its filth washed away so the sun outside can shine through and that is in no way an approximation of the vintage and actually ruins the current version too because, going back to the bus, all of the seats are full and you're trying to paint go faster stripes on the outside whilst tying luggage to the roof.

    But hey, it is what it is. I'm no perfumer, I was just playing for fun and going off intuition, someone else may just crack the code and make it happen in which case I'd be interested in taking a sniff but it isn't something I'd hold my breath for due to the reasons outlined above and my own experience.

    Good luck!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Nice post Palm, that's up there with your Mona Lisa one...

  28. #28

    Default Re: Hi guys. Wanting to add birch tar and Oakmoss to Aventus. Anyone know where to get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    Aventus simply can't currently be cloned due to the captives at play.

    Imagine the fragrance is a bus and it has 48 seats and in Aventus 30 of those are filled with special captive molecules the clonesharks hit a brick wall here because they only have the same amount of seats to play with but the aromachems they are putting in them just aren't as powerful/sparkly/ooh inducing as what Creed has access to, case in point:

    The Aventus bus contains 4 seats of ISO Gamma Super. In order to get the same effect the bathtub perfumers have to use 12 seats filled with ISO Super E, Timbersilk and Sylvamber in order to try and approximate the Gammas effect but even then its nowhere close to the real deal plus they've already lost 8 extra seats just trying to copy one element. Extrapolate this further and the other 3 captives are handled in similar "close enough" substitute fashion and you start seeing where the problem lies. Each time they do this there is a compounded knock on effect that takes the end result further and further away from the original as they try and make do with what they've got.

    This is why all of the clones miss the mark. You have some that approximate the top notes quite well, others take a stab at the mids, some get the base almost halfway there and occasionally you get something that has bits of all three but the performance is piss poor, not to mention how the actual raw ingredients/skill of blending is often woeful in these wannabe efforts.

    Its all about the seats on the bus.

    Also for those of you that are remixing your scent at home you'll notice again and again as you ruin your Aventus that even the tiniest amount of an "adulterant" completely overpowers/screws up the whole scent and this is due to how basic/simple the modern formula of Aventus is these days with 4 major ingredients doing all of the heavy lifting that defines the scent. This is also the reason why the modern juice is so linear. I spoke on it at length a while back and stated it was now like an official simplified clone of what it used to be as most of the components are the same but proportions/composition has been totally rejigged and those all important microdoses are no more.

    I played around with remixing this a while back and whilst it was fun and I created some interesting blends using my own accords it wasn't a patch on the vintage juice and frankly ruined all thats good about the modern one too because no matter how you go about adding the smoke back in (and smoke is a very complex accord however you make it due to how much is going on) its nigh on impossible to get the right balance which is essential in getting the old effect of shimmering transparency where the smoke acted as a filter that the rest of the scent shone through as thats what gave it its clean with a dirty edge effect like looking at a hot summers day from behind shades. Adding dark stuff into on the other hand just makes it smell like a dirty window thats had a tiny part of its filth washed away so the sun outside can shine through and that is in no way an approximation of the vintage and actually ruins the current version too because, going back to the bus, all of the seats are full and you're trying to paint go faster stripes on the outside whilst tying luggage to the roof.

    But hey, it is what it is. I'm no perfumer, I was just playing for fun and going off intuition, someone else may just crack the code and make it happen in which case I'd be interested in taking a sniff but it isn't something I'd hold my breath for due to the reasons outlined above and my own experience.

    Good luck!
    Wow well said. It still is possible though, also, the people that ruined their Aventus obviously did not Dilute their birch tar etc.. The new Aventus to me is moslty the same as the old, minus the blackcurrant, and birch/ and vanilla.
    We're not trying to RECREATE Aventus so much as just trying to add something to bring back that awesome vibe of the older batches.

    The guy website that I posted above has ingredients/chemicals to get that opening of Aventus, the rest surely can't be that hard. Of course that just me saying that.




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