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Thread: Petitgrain

  1. #1

    Default Petitgrain

    I have a Petitgrain EO and dislike an aspect of it, it's diluted to 15% but there's an almost rancid sharp floral note in the background that I can't mask, not sure how to describe it. I'm not sure if I have to use even less in a higher dilution, perhaps I need to find another material or synthetic with similar effects. I know it's not Neroli as I love my Neroli, but it doesn't seem to have the bright lively aspect of Petitgrain.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    I have a Petitgrain EO and dislike an aspect of it, it's diluted to 15% but there's an almost rancid sharp floral note in the background that I can't mask, not sure how to describe it. I'm not sure if I have to use even less in a higher dilution, perhaps I need to find another material or synthetic with similar effects. I know it's not Neroli as I love my Neroli, but it doesn't seem to have the bright lively aspect of Petitgrain.
    Try petitgrain bergamotier or bigarade (the first is nicer, the second is more popular and widespread).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    SharpLess, where did you get your petitgrain? I have CAS# 8014-17-3 from Perfumer's Apprentice. It's quite nice. I can see where you're getting a floral component but the one I have I wouldn't describe as sharp or rancid. It's pretty smooth. I haven't diluted it though.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by jfrater View Post
    Try petitgrain bergamotier
    I haven't seen that word before, Bergamotier, were you thinking of this? Bigaradier?

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    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    I haven't seen that word before, Bergamotier, were you thinking of this? Bigaradier?

    https://perfumersupplyhouse.com/prod...heart-natural/
    https://hermitageoils.com/product/pe...essential-oil/

  6. #6

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    It's Petitgrain Bigarade from sweeders on eBay I got it back in October, I added some vitamin E, IPM and Glucam-p20 to my bottle at 15% dilution to soften the edges and preserve it, seems to have worked so far a bit, i'll see how it blends over time.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Thanks, I don't really visit that website...
    But reading around about that word, I wonder if it isn't just an Italian word for Bergamot...

    But, Reading the Albert Vielle PDF that mentions this two word phrase, it translates as:

    petitgrain bergamotier for the distillation of leaves, twigs and small green fruits.

    It'a a little hard, since it is a combination of French and Italian, but, it seems that it is a Petitgrain + distillation, with added fruit.
    Similar to the Petitgrain + distillation, Petitgrain sur fleurs, with added flowers

    Learned something new today... WOOHOO!

    http://www.albertvieille.com/upload/...L_P8R9UKAR.pdf
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Just to add to Paul's insightful post, the components of Petitgrain bigarade are: Linalyl acetate(45%), Linalool(20%), β-Pinene(<10%), α-Terpineol(6%), Geranyl acetate(<5%), cis-β-Ocimene(<5%

    it must be the Geranyl acetate that I don't have a liking to. I guess I just have be very carefully as I love this stuff in blends but it's easy to overdose.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Just to mention that bergamotier is not Italian. Much more likely to be French .

    Pierpaolo

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    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by pierpaolo72 View Post
    Just to mention that bergamotier is not Italian. Much more likely to be French .

    Pierpaolo

    Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk
    I was mentioning the seeming doubled language entanglement from the Vielle document... and the sentence about what goes into it, but alas, both my French and Italian are very poor, so I can be wrong in so many ways... ;-)
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Thanks, I don't really visit that website...
    But reading around about that word, I wonder if it isn't just an Italian word for Bergamot...

    But, Reading the Albert Vielle PDF that mentions this two word phrase, it translates as:

    petitgrain bergamotier for the distillation of leaves, twigs and small green fruits.

    It'a a little hard, since it is a combination of French and Italian, but, it seems that it is a Petitgrain + distillation, with added fruit.
    Similar to the Petitgrain + distillation, Petitgrain sur fleurs, with added flowers

    Learned something new today... WOOHOO!

    http://www.albertvieille.com/upload/...L_P8R9UKAR.pdf
    Petitgrain taken from bergamot trees - whereas bigarade is taken from bitter orange trees.

    Bergamot petitgrain is more beautiful. It is used (in combination with bergamot citronnier) in Green Irish Tweed.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by jfrater View Post
    Petitgrain taken from bergamot trees - whereas bigarade is taken from bitter orange trees.

    Bergamot petitgrain is more beautiful. It is used (in combination with bergamot citronnier) in Green Irish Tweed.
    Mmm, OK, THANKS!
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    Just to add to Paul's insightful post, the components of Petitgrain bigarade are: Linalyl acetate(45%), Linalool(20%), β-Pinene(<10%), α-Terpineol(6%), Geranyl acetate(<5%), cis-β-Ocimene(<5%

    it must be the Geranyl acetate that I don't have a liking to. I guess I just have be very carefully as I love this stuff in blends but it's easy to overdose.
    The Geranyl acetate I have is neither rancid nor particularly sharp. I'd describe it as fresh, somewhat fruity (I just used it in a plum ackord with good effect) with a grassy nuance - a bit like really fine olive oil.

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    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbchi33 View Post
    SharpLess, where did you get your petitgrain? I have CAS# 8014-17-3 from Perfumer's Apprentice. It's quite nice. I can see where you're getting a floral component but the one I have I wouldn't describe as sharp or rancid. It's pretty smooth. I haven't diluted it though.
    FYI CAS 8014-17-3 is simply the Chemical Abstract Services (CAS) number for petitgrain oils in general not the Perfumer's Apprentice catalog number.... although PA only uses a CAS number to refer to their "generic" Paraguay petitgrain oil and give no CAS number (which would be the same number) for their other petitgrain oils from different citrus sources.

    CAS doesn't appear to have different CAS numbers to differentiate between the different types of petitgrain oil such as lemon, lime, mandarin or bergamot petitgrain oil that PA offer.

    CAS numbers also often don't differentiate between different manufacturers or versions of perfume AC's such as Polysantol and Mysantol or Iso E Super and Timbersilk that clearly smell different to sensitive noses.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    ajsanch, I’m aware that’s not the PA catalog number. Thanks for the info.

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    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbchi33 View Post
    ajsanch, Iím aware thatís not the PA catalog number. Thanks for the info.
    Sorry if I am explaining the obvious. Some people reading may not be aware of this and I wanted to help reduce any possible confusion among others.

    As a chemist I am almost reflexively used to explaining terms.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Petitgrain

    Quote Originally Posted by ajsanch View Post
    Sorry if I am explaining the obvious. Some people reading may not be aware of this and I wanted to help reduce any possible confusion among others.

    As a chemist I am almost reflexively used to explaining terms.
    No worries. I appreciate all the info this forum provides.




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