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Thread: Iris vs violet

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    Default Iris vs violet

    What is really the difference in these notes? Are there some examples of any fragrances the combined them?

    This morning I was wearing a Volet focused fragrance and this evening An iris focused fragrance. They’re both wonderful. Not sure I understand the note difference yet

    Violette Sacree

    Iris Ghalia

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    I think that iris and violet do share some common components, and I'm sure some of our perfumers here can chime in explaining what chemicals are involved. In general, I think they both give an impression of powderiness and they both smell cold, so to speak. For this reason they were combined in things like Origan, Apres l'ondee, and others, and the effect trickled down to makeup-originating the typical "lipstick" perfume of old makeup (a recent example of this would be the very retro Chanel Misia).

    Violet has two components, though: violet flower, sweet and powdery, and violet leaf, green and sharp. Iris does not have the sharp violet leaf part, nor is it sweet. Iris instead (at least properly macerated iris) has a distinct rooty, dark, almost dark component, which violet lacks. This component is very long lasting, while violet tends to be fleeting.

    A very good way to smell violet on its own (mostly the sweet powdery part) are the Choward mints, which you might be able to find in certain stores. Not sure about the best iris-only perfume. Apart, I assume, from the resurrected $$$$$ Iris gris. Perhaps Le Labo iris? The old Lutens Iris Silver Mist?

    cacio

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    I think that iris and violet do share some common components, and I'm sure some of our perfumers here can chime in explaining what chemicals are involved. In general, I think they both give an impression of powderiness and they both smell cold, so to speak. For this reason they were combined in things like Origan, Apres l'ondee, and others, and the effect trickled down to makeup-originating the typical "lipstick" perfume of old makeup (a recent example of this would be the very retro Chanel Misia).

    Violet has two components, though: violet flower, sweet and powdery, and violet leaf, green and sharp. Iris does not have the sharp violet leaf part, nor is it sweet. Iris instead (at least properly macerated iris) has a distinct rooty, dark, almost dark component, which violet lacks. This component is very long lasting, while violet tends to be fleeting.

    A very good way to smell violet on its own (mostly the sweet powdery part) are the Choward mints, which you might be able to find in certain stores. Not sure about the best iris-only perfume. Apart, I assume, from the resurrected $$$$$ Iris gris. Perhaps Le Labo iris? The old Lutens Iris Silver Mist?

    cacio
    Thank you. Iris Ghalia maybe. Still cheaper than Iris Gris lol

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    I think that iris and violet do share some common components, and I'm sure some of our perfumers here can chime in explaining what chemicals are involved. In general, I think they both give an impression of powderiness and they both smell cold, so to speak. For this reason they were combined in things like Origan, Apres l'ondee, and others, and the effect trickled down to makeup-originating the typical "lipstick" perfume of old makeup (a recent example of this would be the very retro Chanel Misia).

    Violet has two components, though: violet flower, sweet and powdery, and violet leaf, green and sharp. Iris does not have the sharp violet leaf part, nor is it sweet. Iris instead (at least properly macerated iris) has a distinct rooty, dark, almost dark component, which violet lacks. This component is very long lasting, while violet tends to be fleeting.

    A very good way to smell violet on its own (mostly the sweet powdery part) are the Choward mints, which you might be able to find in certain stores. Not sure about the best iris-only perfume. Apart, I assume, from the resurrected $$$$$ Iris gris. Perhaps Le Labo iris? The old Lutens Iris Silver Mist?

    cacio
    More or less this .....

    You can get an idea by trying a bunch of iris frags (and noticing the commonalities ....).

    You can try a couple of violet perfumes (with no noticeable iris) for comparison, such as Violetta (Santa Maria Novella).

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    iris seems more dimensional, with upper and lower notes, maybe darker. Violet seems a bit more "just floral".

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    I definitely need to try Iris ghalia then...

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    I definitely need to try Iris ghalia then...
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/461...se-oud-release

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Of the two, I find I get along better with iris than with violet.
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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Doubtful whether EO’s Iris Ghalia is the best fragrance to spot the ‘iris’ note given the complexity of its blending with deep oud and animalic musks. One option I can vouch for is Abdessalam Attar’s Il Giglio di Firenze. Quite pricey though.

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Doubtful whether EO’s Iris Ghalia is the best fragrance to spot the ‘iris’ note given the complexity of its blending with deep oud and animalic musks. One option I can vouch for is Abdessalam Attar’s Il Giglio di Firenze. Quite pricey though.
    interesting point!

    Feu Secret from Bruno Fazzolari is iris note based...

    Dior Bois D'Argent has it prominent but not sure that it's really in front.

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Doubtful whether EO’s Iris Ghalia is the best fragrance to spot the ‘iris’ note given the complexity of its blending with deep oud and animalic musks. One option I can vouch for is Abdessalam Attar’s Il Giglio di Firenze. Quite pricey though.
    ahh, just connected with AbdesSalaam, duh....yes, I would love to try this one...

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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    Of the two, I find I get along better with iris than with violet.
    I'm definitely an iris person as well.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Both of these notes are very multifaceted in fragrances, but in natural raw floral form, they both smell powdery to me. I have sniffed both natural organic iris and violets and they are kind of similar, but that is irrelevant in perfume, as the fragrances come from oils, and often times the oils aren't even entirely made up of just that flower, or ingredient (unless you make your own oils and know exactly what goes into them). That's why I learned, it's never really good to compare natural ingredients to what we perceive as natural in frags. There are lots of floral powdery fragrances that may smell exactly like violets, they may not contain any violet at all.

    I very much agree with cacio's descriptions. I would like to add, that to me, iris often smells like a combination of woods, and pepper, specifically sandalwood, cedar, and black pepper. Usually, this is more the root (better known as orris root). The iris flower is perceived as more floral and powdery, and has that "makeup smell". I also think that iris gets mislabeled for iris root, and vice versa more often than I'd like to see. So what you're perceiving as iris, may just be iris/orris root, which is an entirely different smell.

    As the same goes for violet and violet leaf. Both come from the same plant, but smell entirely different. A good example would be Fahrenheit, which gets mislabeled sometimes for having violet, when it is violet leaf. I dunno if it's easier for fragrance brands, to try to lure in consumers with more familiar words.. to be honest, I doubt the average Joe even cares about fragrance notes or reads them. If I knew nothing, I would be more likely to buy a fragrance with a note that sounded familiar and common, like iris, rather than something like orris root.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    I think that iris and violet do share some common components, and I'm sure some of our perfumers here can chime in explaining what chemicals are involved. In general, I think they both give an impression of powderiness and they both smell cold, so to speak. For this reason they were combined in things like Origan, Apres l'ondee, and others, and the effect trickled down to makeup-originating the typical "lipstick" perfume of old makeup (a recent example of this would be the very retro Chanel Misia).

    Violet has two components, though: violet flower, sweet and powdery, and violet leaf, green and sharp. Iris does not have the sharp violet leaf part, nor is it sweet. Iris instead (at least properly macerated iris) has a distinct rooty, dark, almost dark component, which violet lacks. This component is very long lasting, while violet tends to be fleeting.

    A very good way to smell violet on its own (mostly the sweet powdery part) are the Choward mints, which you might be able to find in certain stores. Not sure about the best iris-only perfume. Apart, I assume, from the resurrected $$$$$ Iris gris. Perhaps Le Labo iris? The old Lutens Iris Silver Mist?

    cacio

    Tending to agree very much with these particular descriptions: iris has the rather powdery, "lipstick like" note and development to it, whereas violat, still quite powdery on its own, can have a slightly darker, earthier aspect

  15. #15

    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    From Dior, try to compare Fahrenheit and Dior Homme. Two woody leather chypres, the former based on violet and the latter based on iris.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    While they are sometimes used to complimentary effect, I find them quite different. As mentioned by Cacio and The_Cologneist, the raw materials come from different plants, and different parts of the plant in each case. In the case of orris (iris), for example, the material is actually extracted from the root of the plant, which is rich in rhizomes. It’s the irones content that is responsible for the scent unique to orris. It’s a unique material, and people respond to it quite strongly. Interestingly, I recall reading an article some years ago that likened the smell of orris to the scent of a newborn baby’s head. It’s highly prized for its scent, is an excellent fixative, and has has a long history of use in perfumery.

    The best way to sample orris would be from a good vintage perfume with a prominent iris note, or by purchasing a small sample from a reputable supplier. Most notes listed on perfume descriptions are impressions, or accords built from other materials, and don’t reflect the actual ingredients used. By weight it’s one of the most, if not the most, expensive raw material used in perfumery. Unless you’re purchasing a perfume from someone who is transparent about the materials they are using, and who specifically lists orris, it’s unlikely you’re getting the real thing, and if you are it’s probably not in sufficient quantity to evaluate it as a note (though the effect might be present). The real stuff is still used of course, and tends to command a higher price when you can find it.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Just noticed you were trying Iris Ghalia. I haven’t tried this one, but Ensar lists orris butter and I would have no reason to doubt its authenticity here. It might be quite difficult to evaluate with that many animalics, plus oud, though!
    It’s not the case that everybody was Kung-Fu fighting...

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    I can get mixed up and think something has iris, but the listed notes and other people tell me it's violet.

    I think a lot can be done with the violet note that is similar to iris.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Iris vs violet

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    I think that iris and violet do share some common components, and I'm sure some of our perfumers here can chime in explaining what chemicals are involved. In general, I think they both give an impression of powderiness and they both smell cold, so to speak. For this reason they were combined in things like Origan, Apres l'ondee, and others, and the effect trickled down to makeup-originating the typical "lipstick" perfume of old makeup (a recent example of this would be the very retro Chanel Misia).

    Violet has two components, though: violet flower, sweet and powdery, and violet leaf, green and sharp. Iris does not have the sharp violet leaf part, nor is it sweet. Iris instead (at least properly macerated iris) has a distinct rooty, dark, almost dark component, which violet lacks. This component is very long lasting, while violet tends to be fleeting.
    This response (the first one!) is pretty much perfect.

    Adding my mental "shortcut" version: Iris = white-powdery and sometimes earthy/rooty; violet = green-powdery and sometimes leafy/vegetal.
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