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  1. #1
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    Default Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Curious about this. Thank you.

    Noticed some newly opened bottles don’t project much. Maybe they mature from some exposure to air from being opened. Is that a thing?

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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Not an expert here. For some very complex perfumes, the perfume can change a bit over the first couple of years as materials mix. Not sure it has to do with opening or exposure to air. And I don't think it's true for most modern stuff which is mostly composed by a few main synthetics

    cacio

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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    I personally haven't experienced it, or if I have, I haven't noticed it.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    How do they get exposed to air? Only splash-ons will.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    very much like scotch - some oxidize well and some do not.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Both my Chanel No. 5 perfumes and my Caron En Avion perfumes improved with aging. Every time. Richer, rounder and with better longevity.

    It may be the jasmine that turns the perfumes darker in color,also. I really have no idea.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Some fragrances will experience maturation after exposure to oxygen, sprays included. As you pump liquid out through the sprayer, some measure of ambient air is allowed into the container (in modern sprayers) to prevent a vacuum from occurring within the container... which would eventually prohibit liquid from being pumped out. It must be relieved. Some old spray bottles would have an inert gas added to the bottle to provide positive pressure that 'pushes' product through the sprayer as it's opened (pressed). In such case, no air is introduced to the product containment since bottling and would also prohibit any maturation due to oxygen.

    With old pressurized containers, any 'maturation' is really a degradation of the product's top notes (due to exposure to sunlight or heat. Or even overtaken by other chemicals in the mixture.) and thus revealing the heart and base notes without any bright or even harsh top notes present to mask them. With modern natural sprayers, it's essentially the same result but via exposure to oxygen (and possibly the other reasons as well)... a degradation of the artists original concept that has a lessoning of top notes which reveals the heart and basenotes with less 'in the way'. In all cases, this 'maturation' is technically a degradation of sorts to the original chemical composition. In many cases, this is viewed as pleasant. Got a fragrance with the most beautiful sandalwood note ever, but is harsh in the opening? Give it time to 'mature' and witness how the sandalwood gets even better... since the harsh opening has died down. Whether this degradation of the product is loved or not will be up to the individual. But if you show me a fragrance that has gotten better with time, I'll think that what's happened is top (and even potentially heart) notes that have died down to reveal the fragrances finer qualities.

    I have yet to encounter empirical evidence of a fragrance gaining longevity or projection with maturation.

    But don't listen to me. I'm just some idiot on the internet.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    How do they get exposed to air? Only splash-ons will.
    Spray bottles as well as splash bottles replace sprayed or splashed fragrance with an equal volume of ambient air.
    Diapers and politicians should be changed often, and for the same reason..

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    In my experience, yes, almost with all bottles. For several (Ex Idolo Thirty-Three, La Fille de Berlin, Acqua di Gio Profumo or Christopher Street) the improvement is very marginal, almost imperceptible. For some others (Musc Ravageur, a bottle of Kouros circa 2011, Fahrenheit, New York Intense) I was shocked at the noticeable change. My bottle of Musc Ravageur has changed its colour from an off-white to amber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diddy View Post
    But don't listen to me. I'm just some idiot on the internet.
    Are you sure (not that it matters)? I was just going to invite myself to your house for a good, old-fashioned Southern dinner and drinks.
    Last edited by freewheelingvagabond; 19th March 2019 at 07:22 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    WIth today's synthetics and how much of those are used, no, it's just not going to happen, with rare exceptions (for certain fragrances that are more natural - ask a natural perfumer about this for more details). Perception, however, I've found can be radically different, even in the space of a week. One person called the phenomenon "olfactory familiarity," meaning you get used to certain notes/chemicals/accords, so that the next time it seems very different. This happens to me very often, even with highly synthetic fragrances that I bought new (100 ml) and are only missing one or two sprays after the first wearing, but then it smells very different the second time (and it's very common for me to want to try a new fragrance a second time within the space of two weeks).

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by Diddy View Post
    Some fragrances will experience maturation after exposure to oxygen, sprays included. As you pump liquid out through the sprayer, some measure of ambient air is allowed into the container (in modern sprayers) to prevent a vacuum from occurring within the container... which would eventually prohibit liquid from being pumped out. It must be relieved. Some old spray bottles would have an inert gas added to the bottle to provide positive pressure that 'pushes' product through the sprayer as it's opened (pressed). In such case, no air is introduced to the product containment since bottling and would also prohibit any maturation due to oxygen.

    With old pressurized containers, any 'maturation' is really a degradation of the product's top notes (due to exposure to sunlight or heat. Or even overtaken by other chemicals in the mixture.) and thus revealing the heart and base notes without any bright or even harsh top notes present to mask them. With modern natural sprayers, it's essentially the same result but via exposure to oxygen (and possibly the other reasons as well)... a degradation of the artists original concept that has a lessoning of top notes which reveals the heart and basenotes with less 'in the way'. In all cases, this 'maturation' is technically a degradation of sorts to the original chemical composition. In many cases, this is viewed as pleasant. Got a fragrance with the most beautiful sandalwood note ever, but is harsh in the opening? Give it time to 'mature' and witness how the sandalwood gets even better... since the harsh opening has died down. Whether this degradation of the product is loved or not will be up to the individual. But if you show me a fragrance that has gotten better with time, I'll think that what's happened is top (and even potentially heart) notes that have died down to reveal the fragrances finer qualities.

    I have yet to encounter empirical evidence of a fragrance gaining longevity or projection with maturation.

    But don't listen to me. I'm just some idiot on the internet.
    Cannot upvote this answer enough, both from my experience as a perfume collector, and as a somewhat former scientist. I would have said almost the exact same thing, were I not lazy and genuinely tired of fighting the oversimplified dogmas of perfume culture.

    But as another idiot on the internet, I approve of this message!

    Seriously, perfume behavior needs to make chemical sense. This explanation is completely sensible, chemically. It also raises an interesting tangential point. Body sprays may be a nice archival format to resist oxidative degradation. Said by the guy with the frag fridge.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    WIth today's synthetics and how much of those are used, no, it's just not going to happen, with rare exceptions (for certain fragrances that are more natural - ask a natural perfumer about this for more details). Perception, however, I've found can be radically different, even in the space of a week. One person called the phenomenon "olfactory familiarity," meaning you get used to certain notes/chemicals/accords, so that the next time it seems very different. This happens to me very often, even with highly synthetic fragrances that I bought new (100 ml) and are only missing one or two sprays after the first wearing, but then it smells very different the second time.
    Very big agreement here on the importance of perception variation and perception training. Too often we just don't factor these in.
    There is no beauty / That cannot be more abused / To beauty's effect.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    In one example both my Iris Ganache and Spiritueuse Double Vanille have significantly darkened with age. They have nice red orange appearance from when they use to have been a golden orange at the time of original purchase.

    Another example, Ssme of my Creeds have changed, one being millesime imperial. The citrus note have degraded in the 8+ years since I owned the bottle.

    Oxygen does have a role of aging the scent.
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  14. #14
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    Default Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by freewheelingvagabond View Post

    Are you sure? I was just going to invite myself to your house for a good, old-fashioned Southern dinner and drinks.
    Well, crawfish are just starting to look right and the beer is always cold. Don’t like beer? There’s some vodka, bourbon, cognac and other goodies ‘round the house as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    Cannot upvote this answer enough, both from my experience as a perfume collector, and as a somewhat former scientist. I would have said almost the exact same thing, were I not lazy and genuinely tired of fighting the oversimplified dogmas of perfume culture.

    But as another idiot on the internet, I approve of this message!

    Seriously, perfume behavior needs to make chemical sense. This explanation is completely sensible, chemically. It also raises an interesting tangential point. Body sprays may be a nice archival format to resist oxidative degradation. Said by the guy with the frag fridge.
    First off, I’m completely honored by your comment. Thank you. Sincerely. It was off the cuff and somewhat hurried, so I’m happy it made any sense at all. BTW, YOU are the reason a frag fridge has entered by life. Not neurotic enough? How about... take the old Coty Chypre (and others, yes others), top it off with N2 and seal it before putting it in the fridge. What is wrong with me??? I’m not the Osmotheque! Thanks again.

    (Edit: I work at a chemical plant, and thus cheat on learning how to store chemicals and how to obtain the materials to do so. I don’t mind borrowing knowledge cause I’d never figure it out. I’m still way to close to ‘ape’ on the spectrum.)
    Sent from the bayou, using homing gators.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    your responses are very intelligent and I thank you.

    It makes sense that there is "perception training" and that is why we sense a scent more and more, with more wearings...

    I never realized that. It makes a lot of sense.

    I'm getting into listening to Bach's sacred music and now I have a listening ear for things that just sounded like "church music" before. I think it's similar. Training to perceive notes and collections of notes takes time and is learned at some level.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by Diddy View Post
    Well, crawfish are just starting to look right and the beer is always cold. Don’t like beer? There’s some vodka, bourbon, cognac and other goodies ‘round the house as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    somewhat former scientist
    Uh oh, what happened now? Finally realised that everything is God's will?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    I'd add that if a company tells you that you need to let your new bottle sit for a month, I"d ask them to hold the bottle for you until it is actually ready to be used, and then you will buy it. LOL.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    In my experience this has happened with 100% of my Creeds, all 8 bottles including 2 grey caps. Also happened to 2 bottles of Kouros.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by HankHarvey View Post
    In my experience this has happened with 100% of my Creeds, all 8 bottles including 2 grey caps. Also happened to 2 bottles of Kouros.
    They got better after opening?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by thrilledchilled View Post
    They got better after opening?
    If by "opening" you mean using the atomizer a dozen times and then letting the air in the bottle oxidize and macerate the scent after 4 or 5 months of sitting, then yes.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    I have definitely had some fragrances that blossomed in the bottle after being sprayed. There is no "maybe" about it for me. Two that come to mind were both Creeds. Green Irish Tweed changed (improved) the most, but my current bottle of Aventus also improved with a little time.

    Olivier Creed is also on record as saying the clock doesn't start ticking on a fragrance until it has been sprayed. l know of no reason he would make such a statement unless he thought it to be true.

    I don't know if he was mainly talking about the shelf life of a fragrance before it starts to degrade, or if he was also suggesting that time can enhance a fragrance after it has been sprayed. Or if it was a little of both.

    But to be sure, he thought the fragrance itself definitely changed over time after being sprayed.
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    This is one of those subjects that I've seen debated over the years where I just shake my head in resignation. At least 20 basenotes members have regularly attested in the last ten yrs to Creeds strengthening in their bottles, but people doubt it and get into all kinds of chemistry arguments and some just say it's impossible without actually basing their comments in personal experience. When it comes to Creed, all I can say is they definitely get stronger. YSL used a very sparse ambergris note in Kouros, and Kouros is the only non-Creed frag that ever acted like a Creed in this regard. Is ambergris causing this phenomenon? Don't know. But this definitely happens with these frags, and possibly others in the wider world of perfume.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    There’s maturation, maceration and degradation. You can’t argue ( some try to) with the laws of physics or chemistry. Each process will impact on the scent whether significantly noticeable or not depends a lot on the nose and to a certain extent your beliefs. This is where things get muddled. And why we get into these ‘interesting’ debates.
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    No debate at all for me. I have personally experianced this with several bottles. One in particular a newer formulation bottle of Cool Water. It was basically alcohol water at first and now it is strong and deep. Not like vintage cool water, dont get me wrong, but it improved greatly.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by Diddy View Post
    ...First off, I’m completely honored by your comment. Thank you. Sincerely. It was off the cuff and somewhat hurried, so I’m happy it made any sense at all. BTW, YOU are the reason a frag fridge has entered by life. Not neurotic enough? How about... take the old Coty Chypre (and others, yes others), top it off with N2 and seal it before putting it in the fridge. What is wrong with me??? I’m not the Osmotheque! Thanks again.

    (Edit: I work at a chemical plant, and thus cheat on learning how to store chemicals and how to obtain the materials to do so. I don’t mind borrowing knowledge cause I’d never figure it out. I’m still way to close to ‘ape’ on the spectrum.)
    If I did in fact spread the good news of refrigeration to one more collector, then my job is done!

    Quote Originally Posted by freewheelingvagabond View Post

    Uh oh, what happened now? Finally realised that everything is God's will?
    I'll explain some time when I've sprayed enough Kouros and drunk enough beer to risk getting banned!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider430 View Post
    I have definitely had some fragrances that blossomed in the bottle after being sprayed. There is no "maybe" about it for me. Two that come to mind were both Creeds. Green Irish Tweed changed (improved) the most, but my current bottle of Aventus also improved with a little time.

    Olivier Creed is also on record as saying the clock doesn't start ticking on a fragrance until it has been sprayed. l know of no reason he would make such a statement unless he thought it to be true.

    I don't know if he was mainly talking about the shelf life of a fragrance before it starts to degrade, or if he was also suggesting that time can enhance a fragrance after it has been sprayed. Or if it was a little of both.

    But to be sure, he thought the fragrance itself definitely changed over time after being sprayed.
    GIT improved over time for me for sure. I was really disappointed in my fresh bottle - the key accord was flat and dull, with a kind of "new car" vibe - cheap and plastic-like. Just gets better all the time, now - the way it should be.
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post



    GIT improved over time for me for sure. I was really disappointed in my fresh bottle - the key accord was flat and dull, with a kind of "new car" vibe - cheap and plastic-like. Just gets better all the time, now - the way it should be.
    My 2011 bottle smells wonderful. I'm fearful about the more recent bottles, so I'm leaning towards a replacement bottle similar that of my 2011 bottle.
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    I can say that Aubepine Acacia smells great after nearly 15 years (green flacon) of age. Sadly I notice some differences with my Vintage Tabarome and Bois de Santal in the opening that effected the scent negatively. Some of the magic I felt was lost.
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    I bought a new bottle of Guerlain L'Heure Bleue last year, sprayed and thought I had got a mislabeled bottle, it was more like Chamade in the opening. Checked the bar code and it was a brand new bottle only made early last year. Put it away for months then decided to wear it and from the first spray, it was L'Heure Bleue when I first used it took nearly 30 minutes before it smelt like L'Heure Bleue.

    Another one I had the same experience with was MPG Secrete Datura, I had a nymph bottle and loved then the brand became hard to find. Les Senteurs started putting their stock in the sale and I decided to buy another bottle as it was a great price. Arrived in the post and I sprayed it actually smelt like Lemon Pledge(furniture polish), took ages to dry down to how Secrete Datura should smell. Again put it away for must have been nearly a year, the juice had darkened and from the first spray, it was how it should be, no Lemon Pledge anywhere.
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRaider430 View Post
    Olivier Creed is also on record as saying the clock doesn't start ticking on a fragrance until it has been sprayed. l know of no reason he would make such a statement unless he thought it to be true.
    The clue is in the surname, lol
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  30. #30

    Default Re: Is it true: do bottles once opened mature and project better after a time

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    Spray bottles as well as splash bottles replace sprayed or splashed fragrance with an equal volume of ambient air.
    Air is being expelled when sprayed but then the opening closes so how does it drag air in?

    I figure that the liquid is never actually in a 'vacuum' and that a little air is already in an unopened bottle.Otherwise, it would be impossible to spray for the very first time?

    This maybe the answer but it's just a punt




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