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  1. #1

    Default need help with Civettone

    Im new to site and forum so please excuse me if this question has been asked. I recently purchased Civettone (Firmenich), sadly I am anosmic to it, odd as I can smell other musks. With that being said, how would I use this product in a blend? I know the dilution is .1-.3, would that mean I have to put 1 drop of Civettone to 300 drops of alcohol to get it to .3? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    Honestly, Dilution is not necessary. It is not that strong.

    If you predilute all of your other materials to a standard dilution, then you can dilute this to similar percent.

    It is one of the longest lasting materials commonly available. I know one Perfumer (Who has not too many budget constraints) that says he puts a little bit in everything, to make them last longer.

    I suppose that you must adopt some strategy to use it, if you can't smell it.
    If you bought more than you wanted, It is possible that I might be interested in a little bit, (more than just the small sample that I have now...)..
    PK

  3. #3

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    PK,
    thank you for the reply, I have a 15ml, but I believe I am going to keep it all for now. Budget wise it was a fair price as I believe that 15ml will last some time, and allow for mess ups lol. The fact I can not smell it will be a bit of an issue but Im wanting to work with it either way. Do you suggest adding just 1 drop per 10ml blend, to give it some staying power? I have a friend who smells it and says its a very pleasant musk aroma but not very strong of an aroma. I know this question is a hard one but any suggestions would be appreciated.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    Is that i drop pure to 10ml of diluted concentrate?

    If you are adding to diluted concentrate, you could be diluting to 20%, which would make 1 drop pure be about 1/40 of the concentrate. I think that might be too much...

  5. #5

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    so im adding 1 drop pure civettone to a 10ml. the civettone is right from the 15ml not diluted at all. im adding into ethol for a perfume blend

  6. #6
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    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTheWaterboy View Post
    so im adding 1 drop pure civettone to a 10ml. the civettone is right from the 15ml not diluted at all. im adding into ethol for a perfume blend

    As I mention, that's about 2.25% of the concentrate, I think that's too much.

  7. #7

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    sorry im confused, when you first replied you said not to dilute i (Honestly, Dilution is not necessary. It is not that strong.), now you're saying that adding it undiluted is going to be too strong. am i mis understanding something here?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    The whole question revolves around the scale of your trials.

    If you blend all your materials, together, before dilution, and dilute all materials first, or not, do the same with this.

    But, If your scale of development is merely some small amount of drops, then use undiluted is likely too much, for a helping use. And you would likely need to dilute to 10%, first.
    Your scale of development has to be sufficiently large, undiluted, so that 1 drop is not equal to 1% of your experiment.

    If you use only 40 drops / 2ml / 2g of undiluted concentrate, and then dilute to 20% to make your 10ml bottle, then one drop of Civettone in those 40 drops is likely too much.

    If you are making 50g of undiluted concentrate, then that is about 1000 drops, then 1 drop will not likely be enough, because the scale of your development is sufficiently large for 1 drop to be { ~ about } 0.04% of the total concentrate.

    You've not given enough parameters for me to help you specifically. I am trying to offer some examples, and you need to do the calculations.

  9. #9

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    What is the % we are shooting for? Saying 1% would be too much. I plan to use 10ml bottles (200) drops, from that I plan to make a 20% oil, 80% alcohol. So I will use the civettone mixed with a few other oils and the rest being alcohol. In this case would adding the civettone pure make sense or should i make a 10% or even 3% dilution and then add it to the mix? When you say 0.04% is not enough, what is the number I want to shoot for? I really appreciate your insight

  10. #10
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    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    If each fragrance is only blended to a 2g qty, then dilute your Civettone to a 5% rate, and add in for the effect you wish. Since this whole question/effect is to seek a longevity enhancer type effect. If you wish to use it as a musky note, then higher percentages would be more appropriate.
    Last edited by pkiler; 31st March 2019 at 03:09 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    This thread is a good lesson in quantity vs nuance. Thanks, Paul.

  12. #12

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    PK, thank you, I understand it now. It makes sense. Ill keep you posted, I also notice you are located in Socal, as am I. Where about? If i decide to part with some oil Im sure we could meet up to avoid shipping. Thank you again for the info as it has opened my eyes to the dilution side of things.

  13. #13

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    Deleted
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 22nd June 2019 at 02:46 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: need help with Civettone

    I posted some too-wordy general advice about how Fragrance Demo Formulas at TGSC can be a way to get a handle on typical use ranges for materials new to us or for which we're having doubts on our use. Deleted because unnecessary as general advice, not necessarily helpful on this question, and I didn't personally have civettone itself so what was I doing posting anything at all, even if presented as general.

    One reason commercial formulators might always use less than what could be a great higher-amount use is cost.

    In this instance, from a set of three formulas on TGSC all at about 3 ppt, the reason they don't use more could be cost rather than getting too strong.

    On previous experience with civet tincture, the amount of civettone couldn't have been any great amount either. So the 3 ppt value seemed consistent with experience

    That said, civettone arrived, and I would now encourage you to experiment with higher amounts if you like. As always, though, when going beyond norms, verify how others perceive it.

    EDIT: I'm sorry, on re-reading your original post you said you are anosmic to it. And I did know originally you had said that but forgot. What I said at the end makes no sense when anosmic unless relying exclusively on the judgment of test subjects for your use of that ingredient.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 26th June 2019 at 03:44 PM.




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