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Thread: Ambroxan %

  1. #1
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    Default Ambroxan %

    Hi all, I'm trying to work with Ambroxan in a formula and wondering how to calculate the total vs given working with it in a dilution. I've sampled a 10% dilution of it and I love the smell of it (who wouldn't), but when working with the crystals in an undiluted form, am I to calculate the crystals the same way in which I would for an aroma chemical in liquid form? In other words, if I have 1 gr of crystals, does that account to 1 ml in the context of a formula?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    You'll be excused from having me yell at you.
    Always work by weight, then there's no issue, anytime, anywhere, any how.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeli View Post
    Hi all, I'm trying to work with Ambroxan in a formula and wondering how to calculate the total vs given working with it in a dilution. I've sampled a 10% dilution of it and I love the smell of it (who wouldn't), but when working with the crystals in an undiluted form, am I to calculate the crystals the same way in which I would for an aroma chemical in liquid form? In other words, if I have 1 gr of crystals, does that account to 1 ml in the context of a formula?
    1 gr of Ambroxan does not equal 1 ml in a formula.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Purchase a scale
    M
    Know your "why," and the how is there.

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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    I hope you're well! It's the crystal form that dissuades me. My formula has been based on a 10% Ambroxan dilution in ml, any thoughts on how to convert that into gr in a precise manner?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeli View Post
    I hope you're well! It's the crystal form that dissuades me. My formula has been based on a 10% Ambroxan dilution in ml, any thoughts on how to convert that into gr in a precise manner?
    10% of any given weight will be the amount of Ambroxan contained
    Currently wearing: Dunhill Icon by Dunhill

  7. #7
    Dependent mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    put the crystal directly into the formula at 100%
    use a scale
    Know your "why," and the how is there.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Buy some scales and measure out 1ml of 10% ambroxan and weigh it out. Whatever the weight comes to divide that by 10 and you will get the weight of ambroxan.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeli View Post
    I hope you're well! It's the crystal form that dissuades me. My formula has been based on a 10% Ambroxan dilution in ml, any thoughts on how to convert that into gr in a precise manner?
    Not without knowing what the diluent was.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurn View Post
    10% of any given weight will be the amount of Ambroxan contained
    NO. It won't.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    NO. It won't.
    I trust that, Paul, I appreciate the clarity Since my formula was worked on in dilution @10% and in ml, how do I get to a 100% with the Ambroxan in crystal form. Any direction that's clear is welcome. Of course I work with a scale and weigh things out, I am just unsure how to do the conversation with crystals.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeli View Post
    I trust that, Paul, I appreciate the clarity Since my formula was worked on in dilution @10% and in ml, how do I get to a 100% with the Ambroxan in crystal form. Any direction that's clear is welcome. Of course I work with a scale and weigh things out, I am just unsure how to do the conversation with crystals.
    So, if you measure out 1ml of dry crystals, and then add 9ml of alcohol, this won't get you a 10% dilution, because you are mixing wet and dry measurements.

    BUT, if you weigh out 1 gram of dry crystals, and add 9 gram alcohol, then yes, at any given amount of diluted material you will have 10% of that as dissolved crystals.

    But only when working by weight.
    ALWAYS work by weight, and then these inconsistencies are ironed out.

    Since, for the most part, that I do not work diluted, I simply add the crystals to my other materials, in their concentrate form, very seldom will the crystals not just go into solution with the rest of its friends. if they don't, a five second burst in the microwave usually heats the solution up just enough with a bump of heat, and they go right into solution...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Coeli View Post
    I trust that, Paul, I appreciate the clarity Since my formula was worked on in dilution @10% and in ml, how do I get to a 100% with the Ambroxan in crystal form. Any direction that's clear is welcome. Of course I work with a scale and weigh things out, I am just unsure how to do the conversation with crystals.

    Multiple the dilution % by the mass (Divide by 10) to get the mass at 100%... Do you understand how basic math works?

    10g Ambrox 10% = 1g Ambrox 100%

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    As I understood it the problem is you mixed 10% ambroxan in something as of volume and not weight and now you want to know how much ambroxan pure this mix contain?
    I don't know what diluent you used so I just take ethanol as an example.
    Ambroxan has the density 0.9 g/cm3
    Alcohol has the density 0.7893 g/cm3
    so 9 parts alcohol is 9 x 0,7893 = 7.1037
    one part ambroxan is 1 x 0.9 = 0.9
    the total mass is 7.1037 + 0.9 = 8.0037
    the amount of ambroxan by weight is 0.9 / 8.0037 = 0.1124
    So whatever amount of the dilution you added you instead use 11.24% ambroxan
    If you used a different diluent do the same calculation for that.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by birdie View Post
    ...
    Ambroxan has the density 0.9 g/cm3
    Alcohol has the density 0.7893 g/cm3
    so 9 parts alcohol is 9 x 0,7893 = 7.1037
    one part ambroxan is 1 x 0.9 = 0.9
    the total mass is 7.1037 + 0.9 = 8.0037
    the amount of ambroxan by weight is 0.9 / 8.0037 = 0.1124 [...]
    Sorry to intervene here.... but that's far from correct, at best a zeroth approximation.
    1. Densities do not mix linearly.
    2. It most probably won't be 100% pure Ethanol.

    In case your "10% Ambrox" is in Ethanol: I quickly weighed a corresponding solution and it has an approximate specific weight of 0.81 g/ml, i.e. in every 1*ml there is 0.081 g Ambroxan at approx. 20*°C.

    ... and I can only repeat what the others said: weigh your stuff.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    10% ambroxan in dpg is a commonly sold.
    How do the suppliers dilute - by weight, by volume..
    If you purchase a dilution, and it is purchased in mL, can you assume the dilution is by volume?
    How does the OP make a similar dilution to that which was being used?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Quote Originally Posted by Thea in Fl View Post
    10% ambroxan in dpg is a commonly sold.
    How do the suppliers dilute - by weight, by volume..
    If you purchase a dilution, and it is purchased in mL, can you assume the dilution is by volume?
    How does the OP make a similar dilution to that which was being used?
    Sellers sell in ml, because that is how bottles are made, for liquid measurement, not by weight.
    Do not assume, however, that dilutions are by volume.
    Unless they are very ignorant, they should not be diluting by volume, but by weight.
    NO ONE buys raw materials by volume.
    ALL Materials are sold, period, by weight.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Well is it a mass / volume ratio then?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    I think he said that it is ALL by weight (prior to bottling). So yes there may be 7ml of perfume in a bottle, but when that perfume was formulated the perfumer used a formula based on weights of all ingredients. So if it’s 10% concentration of the perfume concentrate in ethanol, then in 100 total grams of perfume there will be 10 grams of dissolved essential oil. Who knows how much volume that 100 grams will occupy. Maybe 110 ml or whatever based on the average density of the final alcohol / perfume blend. I don’t have any experience in this area so don’t know what a reasonable density is.


    Calculate ratios based on weight. Of course someone could do whatever they want, and I’m sure someone out there (am amateur / hobbyist) might mix and match the two but the guy you were asking made it pretty clear the answer is going to be weight, no matter how you approach the question, when you are talking about professionals with any training and with an interest in basic quality control.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Ambroxan %

    Thanks for attempting to clarify that, but I noticed that dilution is not always by mass percent when SHOPPING for ambroxan.
    So I thought that was important enough to bring up, albeit by one that still measures by teaspoons..




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