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  1. #1

    Default If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Greetings,

    So like all things in life - from cars to women's handbags to clothing and everything in between - there are high end products where you are paying for the product and more so for the name. For some (not all), it's a status symbol that they can be seen owning such a brand name be it on social media or in public. The same can be said for fragrances.

    I'm curious - if you could walk into Walmart tomorrow and buy Creed Aventus or any niche high priced fragrance in the $60 to $100 dollar range, would you think great, now I can buy my favorite niche colognes for cheap or if such fragrances were priced for everyone to afford, it would diminish your interest in the fragrances - because everyone and their father would be wearing these scents like Drakkar Noir and the exclusive factor of some of these brand names would no longer exist.

    In other words, people buy Creed PARTLY because only a select few are willing to buy fragrances that can cost almost as much as they might make in a week at their job, so they know they are not going to surrounded by men at the office or in social groups that are going to smell like them. Most are not buying niche fragrances - they are getting whatever they find at Walmart, Target, Marshalls and the like.

    So if exclusion was taken out of exclusive and everyone could enjoy top quality fragrances at reasonable prices - do you think it would devalue the brands to have Creed sitting next to some designer fragrance with a celebrity's name on it for sale at Walmart or do you think fragrances shouldn't be that expensive anyway and many designer fragrances are just as good if not better than some of the niche brands - that people are really just paying for the brand name that has been put on a pedestal, because they have built a brand that seemingly is for the elite.

    I am sure there are some people here that like knowing that there are fragrances that they have purchased that were worth it as far as they were concerned regarding the cost, because the juice is great and in their mind it is not unlike choosing to buy a Ford or a Ferrari. If you can afford to buy a Ferrari, then why shouldn't you be able to. I am certainly not disputing that - I am just wondering if some of you would stop purchasing some niche brands if they were priced for everyone and instead try to find more obscure fragrances, so that you can still feel that what you are wearing is still more unique and exclusive.

    Would it devalue the brand for you if it was so readily available to every guy looking for his new signature scent or would you go to Walmart and buy multiple bottles of niche colognes you love, because it's so cheap by comparison to what you used to pay.

    I think this could be an interesting discussion, so I am curious what side people would be on if fragrance was priced for everyone.

    What say you?

  2. #2
    Super Member painted_klown's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I would love it, if fragrances were lower cost. That means more for me to choose from.

    As far as exclusivity is concerned, well that is simply not a concern for me. In fact, I am quite the opposite. If I enjoy something, I want as many people as possible to enjoy it right along side of me. I have been trying my best to get those close to me into fragrances for this very reason. Having blind sniff tests, and giving away samples from my own collection, in the hopes of getting them to become fragheads.

    Initially, there would be a lot of pricier bottles sold, if they were suddenly $60 at Wal-Mart, but after time, the market would correct itself, and personal taste would play a larger role in what people were wearing. Especially, if even the most expensive fragrances were affordable on most any budget. It would also make it much easier to get others into the hobby.

  3. #3
    Basenotes Junkie jkonick's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Very interesting question! In terms of status purely, I wouldn't really mind; the only way I'm buying something like Creed anyway is a tester or decant, so it's not like I'm used to the luxury shopping experience. My interest in fragrances is more along the lines of niche houses, that are not concerned with the haute luxe status of brands like Chanel or Dior, or even Creed, but that are focused on making really good fragrances that nevertheless are not cheap.

    This brings me to my other point though - the reason many of those niche fragrances are expensive is not to incur status, but because A) the ingredients are rare and costly, and B) they're not huge companies with tons of financing and staff, they're small, indie outfits. So I guess part of the problem would be that it seems quality would inevitably fall given the increased production - where are you going to find that much oud or ambergris for that cheap? And how would the expansion of niche brands into huge companies effect the end product? Would Rogue have to follow IFRA regulations???? God forbid!

    Lol, or maybe I'm being too literal with this. If all the above weren't an issue, then I wouldn't mind. To be honest, I'd feel more comfortable picking up my fragrances from Walgreens than Saks or Barneys anyway. But I also prefer whole in the wall restaurants to fine dining. Not that I don't love great food or expensive fragrances. But my appreciation of them is divorced from the rituals of presentation involved in a restaurant or department store, respectively.

    Que scay-je?

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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Heck yes.

    I'd never buy a Creed at retail. Ever. And there are countless frags I like the sound of but won't even sample as the price per ml factor means they are way above what I'd class as a sensible buy because the maths just doesn't stack up. Sure this may be 10 times the price of that but is it really 10 times the scent? Really? I thinks not Terrel, I thinks not and if the milk is sour I'm not the kind of pussy to drink it...

    Obviously on the other side of the coin there are those with self esteem issues that find a lot of their worth tied up in reflected prestige and this is a point that the firms mercilessly exploit in these vapid digital times but then there is also the sensible element in the argument that no one wants to smell like everyone else, hence the exclusivity serves a purpose.

    Its a complicated question with shades of Communism writ large as well as pointing towards the seedy underbelly of our current fiscal system and its implications for it denizens who attempt pseudo emancipation by buying the latest baubles and much like when Zara and co "democratized" Couture by bringing it to the masses it was evident where they cut corners and how image isn't reality and I feel the same would probably happen if the fragrance world became Soviet Russia and everyone had a Roja Dove tap installed in their home along with monogrammed slipper vending machines on each corner.

  5. #5

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by jkonick View Post
    Very interesting question! In terms of status purely, I wouldn't really mind; the only way I'm buying something like Creed anyway is a tester or decant, so it's not like I'm used to the luxury shopping experience. My interest in fragrances is more along the lines of niche houses, that are not concerned with the haute luxe status of brands like Chanel or Dior, or even Creed, but that are focused on making really good fragrances that nevertheless are not cheap.

    This brings me to my other point though - the reason many of those niche fragrances are expensive is not to incur status, but because A) the ingredients are rare and costly, and B) they're not huge companies with tons of financing and staff, they're small, indie outfits. So I guess part of the problem would be that it seems quality would inevitably fall given the increased production - where are you going to find that much oud or ambergris for that cheap? And how would the expansion of niche brands into huge companies effect the end product? Would Rogue have to follow IFRA regulations???? God forbid!

    Lol, or maybe I'm being too literal with this. If all the above weren't an issue, then I wouldn't mind. To be honest, I'd feel more comfortable picking up my fragrances from Walgreens than Saks or Barneys anyway. But I also prefer whole in the wall restaurants to fine dining. Not that I don't love great food or expensive fragrances. But my appreciation of them is divorced from the rituals of presentation involved in a restaurant or department store, respectively.
    This is just meant as a fun discussion. Yes, some fragrances could not be sold for $60 per certain ingredients, but at the same time - many are priced much higher than they need to be because you are primarily paying for the elite brand name.

    It's the same across the board with every product that sells themselves as a luxury brand. There have been many examples of people being disgusted at learning how much it actually cost to make the product vs. the mark up price they are paying just for the name. I am sure it's the same in fragrances.

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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    In general I’d be thrilled, also because my favored scent styles aren’t that popular anyway so I don’t think there’d be a huge uptick in people wearing the same scent as me.

    That said, I’m sure that I get some kind of thrill of discovery due to exclusivity of distribution or price, albeit probably more subconscious than anything. There’s also something to be said for the overall experience of buying at the boutiques, etc. As CdG scents aren’t really discounted much I’ll choose to go to a CdG boutique to buy my scents.
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    Basenotes Junkie jkonick's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    denizens who attempt pseudo emancipation by buying the latest baubles and much like when Zara and co "democratized" Couture by bringing it to the masses it was evident where they cut corners and how image isn't reality
    Zara is a great example for this fragrance utopia/dystopia scenario; I'm always tempted by their fragrances when I read reviews comparing them to more popular designer scents, or I stop in and look at all the different bottles, but I'm always disappointed. There might be a decent top note or two, but they all inevitably rest on a base of icky chemicals. But if Aventus was as cheap as Vibrant Leather, it would probably end up smelling that way too. And it would need to have the funky/unique elements stripped out of it for lowest common denominator appeal.

    Que scay-je?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I appreciate the promotional dollars that go into the marketing of a "status" fragrance, but I know that in real life, a $50 bottle has the same ingredient value as a $350 (or more) offering. So I'm always happy to find a wonderful perfume at a price point most aficionados can afford.

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    Basenotes Junkie jkonick's Avatar
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Man View Post
    This is just meant as a fun discussion. Yes, some fragrances could not be sold for $60 per certain ingredients, but at the same time - many are priced much higher than they need to be because you are primarily paying for the elite brand name.

    It's the same across the board with every product that sells themselves as a luxury brand. There have been many examples of people being disgusted at learning how much it actually cost to make the product vs. the mark up price they are paying just for the name. I am sure it's the same in fragrances.
    Definitely true. There is so much markup in the fragrance industry, as elsewhere. That's why I mostly shop at discounters/grey market outlets - it's the closest I can get to buying it at the price it actually should cost. If the situation were something like having the option between buying something like a by Kilian bottle, with the super fancy presentation/box, vs. a plain decant bottle of the same frag with just the name written on tape in sharpie - I'd always go for the latter. I'm going to smell and wear the fragrance way longer than I'll look at the box/bottle, so I just don't really associate the two aspects.

    Que scay-je?

  10. #10

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I am curious as well - if a new fragrance brand was launched tomorrow with a branding style, marketing and scents that gave off a classic and timeless vibe - like they have been in business as long as Creed and other long time niche brands, would a $60 price tag turn you off from such a brand trying to be an affordable Creed/niche company?

    For example, I know people on social media that post photos of knock off Creed fragrances that they have purchased - the bottles are very similar, so they buy these knock offs because a Creed bottle looks good on their shelf and gives them the serotonin boost they are looking for online when they are trying to impress.

    So does an elite or luxury brand also have to have history for it to be legitimate or would you embrace a new company going for the same thing product wise and with branding - classy, top quality ingredients, amazing scents - but with the difference of being affordable to all and thus many men are going to have these products on their shelf.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I think the reasons why people collect any bauble, trinket, or consumable luxury product (perfume, makeup, gourmet food/drink) vary too greatly to cover them all, but the basic answer is yes for most people who make exceptions beyond their means to afford niche fragrances, but no to the people who factor in why a given niche fragrance is expensive if that reason is due to production.

    That's the trick with perfume: You got to figure out WHY these niche houses expect you to pay more, then choose to accept it or not.

    Indeed, some of it is snake oil or cynicism towards the nouveau-niche, as houses like Parfums de Marly, or Tom Ford Private Blends have shown. Others like Roja Dove and Clive Christian confuse density or complexity with quality, since they're basically taking pages from perfumery's past when something like an early Guerlain or Caron had two dozen notes the perfumer spent inordinate amounts of time on blending to perfection.

    Still others like Serge Lutens, Byredo, Etat Libre d'Orange or Montale have an avant- garde aesthetic to speak of their prestige, being daring in some way. Houses like Creed, Amouage, or Editions de Parfums Frédéric Malle bank on dynastic pedigree or museum-grade curation of a perfumer's creativity to eke out their biggest potential (if you believe Malle is capable of that). All of them do have much larger ingredients budgets, and something like Aventus, Epic Man, or Musc Ravageur will smell a cut above the din, but how much above is up to the wearer.

    Then of course, we can't forget the "real" niche houses like Annick Goutale, Parfums de Nicholai, Dipytique, L'Artisan Parfumeur, Maître Parfumeur et Gantier, and other first-gen niche houses that used to stand for an alternative to designers but then slowly drifted upmarket as allowed by class division in this segment.

    Lastly, artisanal perfumers like Bogue, Slumberhouse, Bortnikoff, Areej le Dore, Bruno Fazzolari, Ex Idolo, Auphorie, and so on do this with true niche mentality but also have zero compromise on ingredients and make scents in single batches, forcing a level of scarcity due to economy of scale that makes their perfumes rival the "haute luxe" brands in terms of status by ownership, but only among us hobbyists that know who they are in the first place.

    Some of these, a great many of them in fact, could be scaled up to decrease costs and prices if they were willing to sacrifice the margin their perceived status allows, but the artisanal houses and some of the more-traditional older niche houses could not.

    There are anomalies like Rogue and Gorilla Perfume (Lush) that don't adhere to industry standards (or only limit sales to compliant varieties in specific territories like Lush), still use mostly natural ingredients on an artisanal level, but still keep things relatively reasonably priced compared to other niche, but that's either by design (in Rogue's case), or because compounding is farmed out to a larger internal staff because the artisanal perfume arm rides on the back of a much larger operation (in Gorilla Perfume's case).

    Also, the house of Avon has pretty much already answered this question by accident, since they've drawn most of their inspiration from whatever big luxury perfume houses like Guerlain and Caron were doing, or higher-end designers like Chanel, Dior, and Lauder. For years they delivered the same relative ingredients quality and made their own spin on styles only found in higher end perfume, but the democratized nature of their wares mattered more than the smell once other options became more accessible, and they lost favor sometime in the 90's.

    Food for thought.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Man View Post
    I am sure there are some people here that like knowing that there are fragrances that they have purchased that were worth it as far as they were concerned regarding the cost, because the juice is great and in their mind
    True for me.
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    I think the reasons why people collect any bauble, trinket, or consumable luxury product (perfume, makeup, gourmet food/drink) vary too greatly to cover them all, but the basic answer is yes for most people who make exceptions beyond their means to afford niche fragrances, but no to the people who factor in why a given niche fragrance is expensive if that reason is due to production.

    That's the trick with perfume: You got to figure out WHY these niche houses expect you to pay more, then choose to accept it or not.

    Indeed, some of it is snake oil or cynicism towards the nouveau-niche, as houses like Parfums de Marly, or Tom Ford Private Blends have shown. Others like Roja Dove and Clive Christian confuse density or complexity with quality, since they're basically taking pages from perfumery's past when something like an early Guerlain or Caron had two dozen notes the perfumer spent inordinate amounts of time on blending to perfection.

    Still others like Serge Lutens, Byredo, Etat Libre d'Orange or Montale have an avant- garde aesthetic to speak of their prestige, being daring in some way. Houses like Creed, Amouage, or Editions de Parfums Frédéric Malle bank on dynastic pedigree or museum-grade curation of a perfumer's creativity to eke out their biggest potential (if you believe Malle is capable of that). All of them do have much larger ingredients budgets, and something like Aventus, Epic Man, or Musc Ravageur will smell a cut above the din, but how much above is up to the wearer.

    Then of course, we can't forget the "real" niche houses like Annick Goutale, Parfums de Nicholai, Dipytique, L'Artisan Parfumeur, Maître Parfumeur et Gantier, and other first-gen niche houses that used to stand for an alternative to designers but then slowly drifted upmarket as allowed by class division in this segment.

    Lastly, artisanal perfumers like Bogue, Slumberhouse, Bortnikoff, Areej le Dore, Bruno Fazzolari, Ex Idolo, Auphorie, and so on do this with true niche mentality but also have zero compromise on ingredients and make scents in single batches, forcing a level of scarcity due to economy of scale that makes their perfumes rival the "haute luxe" brands in terms of status by ownership, but only among us hobbyists that know who they are in the first place.

    Some of these, a great many of them in fact, could be scaled up to decrease costs and prices if they were willing to sacrifice the margin their perceived status allows, but the artisanal houses and some of the more-traditional older niche houses could not.

    There are anomalies like Rogue and Gorilla Perfume (Lush) that don't adhere to industry standards (or only limit sales to compliant varieties in specific territories like Lush), still use mostly natural ingredients on an artisanal level, but still keep things relatively reasonably priced compared to other niche, but that's either by design (in Rogue's case), or because compounding is farmed out to a larger internal staff because the artisanal perfume arm rides on the back of a much larger operation (in Gorilla Perfume's case).

    Also, the house of Avon has pretty much already answered this question by accident, since they've drawn most of their inspiration from whatever big luxury perfume houses like Guerlain and Caron were doing, or higher-end designers like Chanel, Dior, and Lauder. For years they delivered the same relative ingredients quality and made their own spin on styles only found in higher end perfume, but the democratized nature of their wares mattered more than the smell once other options became more accessible, and they lost favor sometime in the 90's.

    Food for thought.
    I don't think there is any product on the market - that is priced exactly what it should be per it's product cost or supposed worth that the company who makes it deems it to be. What I mean to say is - if a product cost requires it to be priced at $200 for the company to make a profit, the company is going to add another $200 or more to the price simply because of the brand name/logo on the product. The brand name is always a factor in the price above and beyond the product itself. It's retail 101.

    I think shows like Shark Tank are helping consumers open their eyes a bit, because they see that the investors want the product to be as inexpensive to produce as possible so an actual profit can be made - even with a product of quality - get it made in China, etc. So they are realizing that they are paying hundreds of dollars for certain products that cost next to nothing to produce in comparison to the price of the product and what you are really paying for is the brand name or the celebrity attached to the product ala basketball shoes. For some that is still worth it. Creed and other brand names have created a brand legacy that makes people feel good about owning it.

    I just don't believe that any of the brands you mention are charging what they HAVE to change due to the quality of the product or ingredients. They may not able to sell their product for $60, $80 or $100 - but the price they have decided on goes beyond just what it take to make it - the brand, marketing and other factors inflate the price even more.

    I don't think Avon is a good example, since that business model in general was dying and people would mock them similar to Amway - it's almost viewed like a cult.

  14. #14

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    True for me.
    Would you continue to buy them if they were at Walmart for $80?

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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I would not care for the lack of exclusivity per se , but be excited I can buy it.

    There are loads of things I can buy that anyone can afford. Tons of stuff under 10 bux on ebay or amazon ready for pick up to add to your wardrobe. Some of the stuff really makes me look striking or very beautiful but it won't work for everyone because lot of other people dont work on their bodies enough or keep fit or are interested in looking good or style.
    So in a way, it is still exclusive.

    I can also make that point for knowledge. There is ton of free knowledge out there that is very very useful.. stuff on the internet and in books at the library and bookstores.
    But not everyone is lining up to reach for those. Why? Because it doesnt work for everyone. Lot of other people dont work on their minds enough or keep mentally fit nor are interested in investing in knowledge or learning.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I think the average person expects a fragrance to cost a certain price. So if a fragrance were to be too affordable, it might raise some red flags. From what I've seen, the average person that buys a higher end designer fragrance (e.g. Chanel), is buying it for its prestige pricing. Also, the store where the fragrance is being sold at is important. I feel like the average person looking for a higher end designer fragrance is less likely to enter a Walmart or generic drugstore, even if the price was affordable. Unlike the democratization of technology, fragrances aren't really a necessity, so I don't think people would adopt it as rapidly as they did with computers and phones. Maybe I'm downplaying the potential of fragrances; perhaps fragrances become a necessity for personal hygiene.

  17. #17

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by FS0C13TY View Post
    I think the average person expects a fragrance to cost a certain price. So if a fragrance were to be too affordable, it might raise some red flags. From what I've seen, the average person that buys a higher end designer fragrance (e.g. Chanel), is buying it for its prestige pricing. Also, the store where the fragrance is being sold at is important. I feel like the average person looking for a higher end designer fragrance is less likely to enter a Walmart or generic drugstore, even if the price was affordable. Unlike the democratization of technology, fragrances aren't really a necessity, so I don't think people would adopt it as rapidly as they did with computers and phones. Maybe I'm downplaying the potential of fragrances; perhaps fragrances become a necessity for personal hygiene.
    Many drugstores now actually carry more high end stuff these days. You can buy Chanel among others anywhere now.

    I don't agree with the red flag notion, because with discount fragrance stores online and ebay - people who would be willing to pay full price are comparison shopping to find the lowest price possible. If it was announced that Creed was at Walmart - a very large portion of the people here would be getting into their cars immediately to go to the nearest Walmart and clean them out.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    I don’t particularly care for price-led exclusivity; I’d blindbuy more stuff if only they are priced lower.

    Here’s the kicker: except for our tiny community of fragheads (and perhaps, spouses), NOBODY cares if your fragrance cost you thousands of dollars. NOBODY.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Man View Post
    I don't agree with the red flag notion, because with discount fragrance stores online and ebay - people who would be willing to pay full price are comparison shopping to find the lowest price possible. If it was announced that Creed was at Walmart - a very large portion of the people here would be getting into their cars immediately to go to the nearest Walmart and clean them out.
    I'm just talking about someone who isn't interested in fragrances. Most people don't even know that online discounters exist. But if you're talking about enthusiasts, I think you're right.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Man View Post
    I don't think there is any product on the market - that is priced exactly what it should be per it's product cost or supposed worth that the company who makes it deems it to be. What I mean to say is - if a product cost requires it to be priced at $200 for the company to make a profit, the company is going to add another $200 or more to the price simply because of the brand name/logo on the product. The brand name is always a factor in the price above and beyond the product itself. It's retail 101.

    I think shows like Shark Tank are helping consumers open their eyes a bit, because they see that the investors want the product to be as inexpensive to produce as possible so an actual profit can be made - even with a product of quality - get it made in China, etc. So they are realizing that they are paying hundreds of dollars for certain products that cost next to nothing to produce in comparison to the price of the product and what you are really paying for is the brand name or the celebrity attached to the product ala basketball shoes. For some that is still worth it. Creed and other brand names have created a brand legacy that makes people feel good about owning it.

    I just don't believe that any of the brands you mention are charging what they HAVE to change due to the quality of the product or ingredients. They may not able to sell their product for $60, $80 or $100 - but the price they have decided on goes beyond just what it take to make it - the brand, marketing and other factors inflate the price even more.

    I don't think Avon is a good example, since that business model in general was dying and people would mock them similar to Amway - it's almost viewed like a cult.
    You misunderstood what I said. I was giving justifications (not valid reasons) for the prices they set. 90% of those justifications are just branding/marketing, so we agree on most points I made.

    The only group that charges anything close to valid prices is the one-man artisanal group, like Slumberhouse, because it's a single guy sourcing then crafting and compounding those perfumes all by himself, using whatever ingredients he chose to pay for. Areej le Dore and the like often mascerate their own sandalwood, oud, and musk too, creating the ingredients themselves. Ultimately, with these hand-crafter labels, they're only making a few hundred bottles at a time (if that), and some varieties get made once then never again, so you're not paying for materials so much as labor. Is $300 worth of material in Areej le Dore Russian Oud? Definitely not. How much money is that man's time and effort worth (remember, it is just one man)? That's the question you answer when buying artisanal niche. Many of these houses sell out in hours after a new release, and people get put on waiting lists (or the scents bought in multiples then "flipped" on eBay for double/triple the price of the perfumer) because supply is so small.

    As for Avon, it was never viewed as a cult like Amway (unless YOU view it that way, which is fine) because it never pushed that level of dedication or investment. Amway is an MLM: A Multi-Level Marketing company, which is effectively the legal version of a pyramid scheme. The front-liners put up all the capital and buy all the inventory up front, assume all the risk, and get the smallest residual profit from the sales. Avon never made their salesforce buy inventory (although that was optional and many ladies did it), and you could just collect the orders then submit them in batches at the end of a campaign. There were no minimums of time or sales quotas to meet. Avon really just operated like a school fundraiser (e.g. World's Finest Chocolates).

    Avon's fortunes took a dive because they offered democratized versions of exclusive products in markets which didn't have access to luxury retailers, then the designers literally stopped being exclusive thanks to the proliferation of shopping malls and big box department stores which popped up in small towns where Avon once dominated. Nobody needed to "settle" for Avon when every town had a Bon Ton or a Dillard's if not a Macy's by the beginning of the 90's, plus the women who often sold Avon for lack of better employment opportunities didn't need to anymore, especially with online marketplaces nowadays.

    Anyways, to circle back, justification for price is way different than actual valid reasons for a price, and I merely stated that the one-man operations are a bit closer to legitimate because you're paying for their time, energy, and creative efforts, since they're often doing this stuff from home and selling on Instagram, Etsy, or their own private sites.
    oh look, I have a signature

  21. #21

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    You misunderstood what I said. I was giving justifications (not valid reasons) for the prices they set. 90% of those justifications are just branding/marketing, so we agree on most points I made.

    The only group that charges anything close to valid prices is the one-man artisanal group, like Slumberhouse, because it's a single guy sourcing then crafting and compounding those perfumes all by himself, using whatever ingredients he chose to pay for. Areej le Dore and the like often mascerate their own sandalwood, oud, and musk too, creating the ingredients themselves. Ultimately, with these hand-crafter labels, they're only making a few hundred bottles at a time (if that), and some varieties get made once then never again, so you're not paying for materials so much as labor. Is $300 worth of material in Areej le Dore Russian Oud? Definitely not. How much money is that man's time and effort worth (remember, it is just one man)? That's the question you answer when buying artisanal niche.

    As for Avon, it was never viewed as a cult like Amway (unless YOU view it that way, which is fine) because it never pushed that level of dedication or investment. Amway is an MLM: A Multi-Level Marketing company, which is effectively the legal version of a pyramid scheme. The front-liners put up all the capital and buy all the inventory up front, assume all the risk, and get the smallest residual profit from the sales. Avon never made their salesforce buy inventory (although that was optional and many ladies did it), and you could just collect the orders then submit them in batches at the end of a campaign. There were no minimums of time or sales quotas to meet. Avon really just operated like a school fundraiser (e.g. World's Finest Chocolates).

    Avon's fortunes tool a dive because they offered democratized versions of exclusive products that literally stopped being exclusive thanks to the proliferation of shopping malls and big box department stores. Nobody needed to "settle" for Avon when every town had a Bon Ton or a Dillard's if not a Macy's by the beginning of the 90's. The only complaints I've ever heard about Avon is the perception of "cheap", which is sadly now mostly true, but not the older stuff. See my sample pass thread in the vintage forum for evidence of that. I don't make these claims baselessly.

    Anyways, to circle back, justification for price is way different than actual valid reasons for a price, and I merely stated that the one-man operations are a bit closer to legitimate because you're paying for their time, energy, and creative efforts, since they're often doing this stuff from home and selling on Instagram, Etsy, or their own private sites.
    Fair enough about the one man operation, but there are tons of home brewers on Etsy and some are seriously inflating the price and overestimating their skills - is a tiny vial made in someone's apartment worth the price of 40 or 50 bucks when you can buy a 100ML bottle of a designer fragrance for the same price ballpark 40 to 60 bucks?

    What I am saying is even the one man operation tries to mark up the price beyond cost of ingredients and labor - to make it all worth it. In some cases, they are hoping that they can quit their job and do this full time, so if they have a popular Etsy store, they are going to price things accordingly, so they can quit the 9 to 5.

    I have known quite a few women who tried their hand at Avon over the years and they all pretty much have said the same thing - sure they have sold some good products, but it's pretty much a scam from the making money aspect for the Avon ladies.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    So if exclusion was taken out of exclusive and everyone could enjoy top quality fragrances at reasonable prices
    IMO, there are top quality scents are reasonable prices all over the place. I think the market for fragrances in many forms, with fantastic quality, is a current reality. I've even found marvelous aftershaves can be fragrances, as well as essential oils. I treasure many inexpensive fragrances I own as much as my Creeds and Clive Christian scents.
    Currently wearing: Vetiver Geranium by Creed

  23. #23

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by tspencer View Post
    IMO, there are top quality scents are reasonable prices all over the place. I think the market for fragrances in many forms, with fantastic quality, is a current reality. I've even found marvelous aftershaves can be fragrances, as well as essential oils. I treasure many inexpensive fragrances I own as much as my Creeds and Clive Christian scents.
    Of course, but I sort of made that point as well - there are designer and independent fragrances just as good as any niche fragrance on the market, but there are SOME people who buy into the niche brand name notion - it has to be expensive, because it's the best and they like to be able to showcase that brand to the world in one way or another.

    It's the very reason why social media is flooded with knock off Creed bottles and other luxury brand products - they can't afford the real thing, but still want to get the same serotonin boost by trying to fool people online that they have the real thing.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Everybody says "naw man. I wear what i like, i dont care about the price or nothin." Then decrees a fragrance as played out, not wishing to smell of the rabble. But GIT is still popular, and its scent profile has been widely distributed, so what do i know. Price is often tied to perception for better or worse.
    It’s tragic to think that heroic man’s great destiny is to become economic man, that men will be reduced to craven creatures who crawl across the globe competing for money, who spend their nights dreaming up new ways to swindle each other.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Hey Man View Post
    Of course, but I sort of made that point as well - there are designer and independent fragrances just as good as any niche fragrance on the market, but there are SOME people who buy into the niche brand name notion - it has to be expensive, because it's the best and they like to be able to showcase that brand to the world in one way or another.

    It's the very reason why social media is flooded with knock off Creed bottles and other luxury brand products - they can't afford the real thing, but still want to get the same serotonin boost by trying to fool people online that they have the real thing.
    Decants make it possible to own niche scents for reasonable prices. If I didn't have the money, I would definitely be going to decants. Heck, I owned and own a few Creed decants like Sublime Vanille. I had a decant of Acier Aluminium before buying a flacon due to it being vaulted (still have the decant and haven't opened the flacon yet). I am on the fence about buying a Silver Mountain Water knock-off or going with the real deal, haven't decided yet.

    If you love fragrances then you have options at different price restrictions. Where there is a will there is a way.
    Currently wearing: Vetiver Geranium by Creed

  26. #26

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Absolutely. I was just trying to see if some people here would stop buying niche fragrances if everyone could afford them and their office was filled with men that smell like Aventus. Does it devalue the brand if they cater to everyone or you like what you like and would still buy it no matter how many men are wearing due to the under $100 cost.

    I do think some men want to be the only one that own certain things - be it in their neighborhood or among their friends. The one guy that has a Rolex watch collection or fancy sports car or some other status symbol that makes the Joneses jealous.

  27. #27

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Tests in this country showed that Chanel N°5 for approximately € 95,= / 100ml sells better than the same quantity for € 40,=. People cherish the idea that they do well when they buy/give away something expensive instead of something cheap.
    Currently wearing: Lomani by Lomani

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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    A fascinating topic for sure. Someone above said nothing is truly, fairly priced and I’d tend to agree with that. I do think exclusivity plays a role in this for a lot of people, but in this community at least I think it’s more individuality and uniqueness than the desire to have an expensive bottle of something just because it’s expensive.

    For me personally, I gravitate more toward niche scents because I like to smell different than other people, and I’m not interested in being the 17th guy in my office to wear Sauvage or Bleu de Chanel. With that said, I have a lot of decants in my collection and have no shame about that at all. To me it’s not the physical bottle that’s important, but the juice inside. My first Aventus decant was like $90 for 60ml. That’s great juice at damn near designer retail prices, and it’s allowed me to really get a foothold in the fragrance game and learn what I like and dislike.

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    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigserver1 View Post
    With that said, I have a lot of decants in my collection and have no shame about that at all. To me it’s not the physical bottle that’s important, but the juice inside. My first Aventus decant was like $90 for 60ml. That’s great juice at damn near designer retail prices, and it’s allowed me to really get a foothold in the fragrance game and learn what I like and dislike.
    This, definitely. Decants have allowed me to own fragrances I definitely couldn’t afford otherwise. If decants were more of an option, like there were full on Sephora-style decant stores, I would only shop there.

    Que scay-je?

  30. #30

    Default Re: If Fragrance Was Priced For Everyone - A Hypothetical

    Personally would still enjoy buying and wearing a fragrance irrespective of the price.
    Perhaps even more so, if a good quality fragrance was priced more inexpensively, mainly the enjoyment of the notes and their development within the scent being (from a personal viewpoint) the main attraction irrespective of at any price point - not just at the upper but also the lower tier of the price range (s).




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