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  1. #1

    Default What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    The top note of most patchouli oils is pretty awesome. Sweet and almost chocolatey. But after about 5 minutes it usually changes to a sharp soil type scent that isn't so pleasing. Seems like some oils do keep this note longer but it has been very rare to find!

    Do you guys have any guesses about what it is? Beta carophylene might be part of it, but it's not sweet enough on it's own.

    Also any suggestions for some nice, sweet patchouli oil?

  2. #2

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Aphermate, very small amount of terrasol and aldehyde c-7 for chocolatey more sweet thick effect.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    I'll try it out, I think Im aiming for something a little sweeter though. Balsalmic, like smelling patchouli straight from the bottle.

  4. #4
    Dependent mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    I find patchouli sweet, minty and sharp at first.
    Then, it becomes mellow and dusty in the dry down.
    I love all aspects of patchouli - probably my most favourite material. It`s just so complex.


    If you want to accentuate the sweet, fruity/minty top notes...
    Many of these materials might work
    https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com...on-citrus.aspx

    I`ve found berryflor to be rather pleasant with patchouli.
    But bitter orange, neroli and frankincense works well too.
    I want to help newbies, like me!
    Matt`s Youtube channel: we examine materials, make accords and simple perfumes and talk all things scent related.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpi...5IG9nbG20t-lIQ

  5. #5

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Thank you. I suppose my original question was, to be more clear, what compound is found in the top note of patchouli oil that makes it sweet? I know this isn't information that is super well known, but I thought it might be worth a shot. Maybe some people might have some experience with some of the compounds in it. All I've tried is beta carophyllene and patchoulol which both are unlikely candidates.

    Any other good guesses?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    https://www.restek.com/chromatogram/view/GC_FF00851

    Check out the GCMS of Patchouli, here it lists the main constituents. Look them up on TGSC for descriptors of the smell and the time lasting on a blotter-- maybe you'll find what you're looking for.

    Cheers
    Cheers, Happy Perfuming!
    Will

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    For example, maybe guaiene is something to look at-- "sweet woody (...) balsamic" -TGSC

    Looks like it shares some of the constituents of Guaiac. You can look at top notes for guaiac wood too. From there, maybe take some of the earlier suggestions from the thread and use them in combination and see what you find.
    Cheers, Happy Perfuming!
    Will

  8. #8
    Dependent mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aromas Del Cielo View Post
    Thank you. I suppose my original question was, to be more clear, what compound is found in the top note of patchouli oil that makes it sweet? I know this isn't information that is super well known, but I thought it might be worth a shot. Maybe some people might have some experience with some of the compounds in it. All I've tried is beta carophyllene and patchoulol which both are unlikely candidates.

    Any other good guesses?
    Perhaps what we are looking for is the most volatile, strongest molecules within patchouli?
    Likely found in trace amounts...the molecules that just shoot out of the bottles?

    If my nose is right, this might be a mint-like, nearly wintergreen type material....
    I want to help newbies, like me!
    Matt`s Youtube channel: we examine materials, make accords and simple perfumes and talk all things scent related.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpi...5IG9nbG20t-lIQ

  9. #9
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by benjwi02 View Post
    For example, maybe guaiene is something to look at-- "sweet woody (...) balsamic" -TGSC

    Looks like it shares some of the constituents of Guaiac. You can look at top notes for guaiac wood too. From there, maybe take some of the earlier suggestions from the thread and use them in combination and see what you find.

    There are some very powerful guaiac wood molecules....
    But they are described as early bacon smelling. So it may not exactly be that?
    I don't know... ?
    I want to help newbies, like me!
    Matt`s Youtube channel: we examine materials, make accords and simple perfumes and talk all things scent related.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpi...5IG9nbG20t-lIQ

  10. #10
    Dependent mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Terrasol is definitely a candidate...
    I haven`t smelled it myself. Is it sweet?
    I want to help newbies, like me!
    Matt`s Youtube channel: we examine materials, make accords and simple perfumes and talk all things scent related.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpi...5IG9nbG20t-lIQ

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    There are some very powerful guaiac wood molecules....
    But they are described as early bacon smelling. So it may not exactly be that?
    I don't know... ?
    I don't know either as I haven't gone into studying it-- I just use straight up patchouli XD. All I'm showing is how to go about thinking/finding the solution to the question on his own, and once he is absolutely stumped then come to the forum.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
    Cheers, Happy Perfuming!
    Will

  12. #12

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    @mattmeleg: Terrasol is not very sweet, maybe like bornyl acetate, but more earthy, damp pine forest soil with fungus effect, very good to enhance patchouli top-notes.

    Patchouli headspace is found to contain the fruity ethyl 4-methylvalerate and the sweet spicy 4-vinyl guaiacol (guaiac wood like), mentioned here:
    https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017050971A1
    containing also a paragraph beginning with "...The perfume complements described herein above may be further complemented with the addition of one or more ingredients selected from the group consisting of..." citing also sweet compounds like maltol, homofuranol, ultravanil...

  13. #13

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    A lot of the patchouli consituents don't have the organoleptic info or are not available. If you look at the info and the combination of physical features like molecular weight (higher ones), vapour pressure (lower ones) or the logp you see that most are base notes for sure. I think that if you want to highlight that aspect you will still be trying things like aphermate. So in that vein I wanted to add more ideas for you to investigate. Some of the sweetness might come from some of the more herbal type top notes and so I think honey or chrystanmum notes might be what you are looking for. Azarbre, phenylethyl acetate or fruity like veloutone, if your looking for hay like sweetness maybe something like cantryl. More on the nose Andrane, and apo patchone.

  14. #14

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Thanks everyone, yeah I've got a lot of this stuff you guys mentioned in my shopping cart at the moment. I have studied gcms of patchouli as well but I was just hoping on some opinions besides just guessing from tgsc data.
    I do think some guaiac wood notes would be quite close to the note I'm perceiving. But yeah it's definitely not a bacon or meat smell. I should try out some of them, maybe when they're mixed with patchouli it brings out more of the balsalmic smell... I have been hesitant to buy them because I already have guaiac wood oil, but maybe there is enough of a difference that it would be worth it.

  15. #15
    Dependent mattmeleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aromas Del Cielo View Post
    Thanks everyone, yeah I've got a lot of this stuff you guys mentioned in my shopping cart at the moment. I have studied gcms of patchouli as well but I was just hoping on some opinions besides just guessing from tgsc data.
    I do think some guaiac wood notes would be quite close to the note I'm perceiving. But yeah it's definitely not a bacon or meat smell. I should try out some of them, maybe when they're mixed with patchouli it brings out more of the balsalmic smell... I have been hesitant to buy them because I already have guaiac wood oil, but maybe there is enough of a difference that it would be worth it.
    There`s a guaiac material that has no bacon scent....
    It`s "guaiac heart," or something like this... and isolate you may want to search out.
    I believe it was Arctander who said very good guaiac wood should not have bacon smell.
    I want to help newbies, like me!
    Matt`s Youtube channel: we examine materials, make accords and simple perfumes and talk all things scent related.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpi...5IG9nbG20t-lIQ

  16. #16

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattmeleg View Post
    There`s a guaiac material that has no bacon scent....
    It`s "guaiac heart," or something like this... and isolate you may want to search out.
    I believe it was Arctander who said very good guaiac wood should not have bacon smell.
    Hmm interesting, thats good to know!

    So it turns out that Azarbre and Guaiene were close hits to that note I was sensing. Not quite on, but as close as I've found! I think I could mix this with some other materials and get a close remake! I think with something kinda chocolatey.

    I will keep searching for similar notes, I love this section of perfumery!

    Thanks everyone!

  17. #17

    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    There is this stuff called isovaleraldehyde 96hr dilute to 1%. Ethereal aldehydic chocolate peach. It's like long lasting ethyl acetate with this airy chocolate note and a note like clearwood. I think somewhere .03-.07 in 100g might be something positive.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: What makes the top note of patchouli oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by RSG View Post
    isovaleraldehyde dilute to 1%.
    Uh, Eeek, don't sniff this full strength...




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