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  1. #1

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    Default Camp: notes on fashion

    Last week, I visited the Camp fashion exibit at the Metropolitan museum of art in NYC. It was quite interesting, and the clothes were fabulous.

    Which prompts a question: are there "camp" perfumes?

    Angel comes to mind, except that it was soon fully accepted as normal (and it wasn't advertised as such anyway).

    cacio

    PS: of remote interest to perfume enthusiast, I finally saw a Knize piece of clothing-a male tuxedo for a woman.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Last week, I visited the Camp fashion exibit at the Metropolitan museum of art in NYC. It was quite interesting, and the clothes were fabulous.

    Which prompts a question: are there "camp" perfumes?

    Angel comes to mind, except that it was soon fully accepted as normal (and it wasn't advertised as such anyway).

    cacio

    PS: of remote interest to perfume enthusiast, I finally saw a Knize piece of clothing-a male tuxedo for a woman.
    Campy? This could start some arguments haha. I can think of a lot of releases that feel campy to me. Calvin Klein, Paco Rabanne, Azzaro, and Mugler seem to be repeat offenders, IMO.
    "Ducks eat for free at Subway."
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Mugler perfumes seems to have gone for that a lot. I haven't followed Azzaro (after the pour homme).

    Moschino was indeed featured in several clothes at the exhibit. I am not very familiar with the perfumes.

    cacio

  4. #4

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    My favorite perfume-related instagram @odedeparfum frequently writes (and writes so well!) about camp perfumes. With Pride month in full swing there's been a slew of great posts.
    Highly recommended reading !!
    Currently wearing: Timbre by Chris Rusak

  5. #5

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Perhaps, to certain extents, TF as an entire fragrance house (perhaps less of their niche/exclusiveness line, not so much because of their pricing nor the elitist marketing, as much as having somehow more artistic freedom to explore more diverse notes) rather than just one specific scent, Le Male and certain other aspects of JPG as entity of a brand/house as well

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Maybe Jean Paul Gaultier Le Male?
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    In terms of marketing, the adverts of Jean Paul Gaultier and Paco Rabanne strike me as rather camp. The models always seem to be cartoonishly good lucking, and the ads very cheesy. Moschino however is more kitsch than camp in my view.

    As for fragrances themselves... I suppose Mugler's mainstream fragrances are camp in an overexaggerated way. I hope I'm not going to offend anyone and it is not my intent to do so, but their fragrances are like the equivalent of a really fabulous drag queen to me... Attention grabbing, impeccably well put together, fascinating and fun to look at / smell. Mugler turns heads.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Attempted camp perfume: Fucking Fabulous by Ford. In fact, the exhibition itself might be a different type of failure. The nature of camp is that it is not intended to be decoded and vivisected. Ironically, Sontag in her famous essay says just that: to talk about camp is to betray it. That said, I liked seeing the Gucci version (by Alessandro Michele) of the jacket worn by Oscar Wilde in Napoleon Sarony's famous (camp) photographic portraits. BTW, the ghost sign of Sarony's 19th century photo studio, still visible at Union Square West, is unfailingly an inspiring sight.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Any Le Male is certainly a contender (especially the Popeye), but I would submit Christian Lacroix's egregious "C'est La Vie", for its name and human-heart-with-aorta bottle, and its sledgehammer of white florals and oriental base.





    It got the fate it deserved:

    (from Cleopatra's Boudoir)

    The New York Times Magazine, 1991:
    "Christian Lacroix's C'est la Vie! retreated from 600 venues just months after it hit the marketplace."
    Forbes, 1991:
    "Last year Christian Lacroix's C'est La Vie lost an estimated $10 million to $12 million in the U.S. alone. The market is finicky, success often ephemeral."
    National Geographic Magazine, 1998:
    "One corpse left by the wayside was the 40 million dollars reportedly lost on Christian Lacroix's C'est la Vie in 1989."


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    I feel like Zoologist is kind of campy, although I like that line. It's not a particularly popular line that many people wear though. :/
    I totally agree with Thierry Mugler and Moschino!

    I would also like to give an honorable mention to Betsey Johnson (although I think that's one line that isn't even carried here in Canada, I'm sure someone knows exactly what I'm talking about though!) Oh yeah, and what about Kenzo World?? eeeesshh...XD

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Lots and lots of Avon was campy and kitschy from the 40's until almost into the 90's.

    IMG_20180726_145216_198.jpg
    IMG_20181108_141418_332.jpg
    IMG_20181108_141429_959.jpg
    IMG_20180727_145153_712.jpg
    oh look, I have a signature

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Thanks for the suggestions - things to check I did not know about.

    As for Avon, the perfume "Gay nineties" (back then innocent, now it could count as camp if it were redistributed)

    cacio

  13. #13

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Guy Laroche Drakkar Noir (because of the ridiculous over the top ads and imagery associated with it's launch campaign, and current day reputation) and Diesel Fuel For Life (fuel bottle that looks more like a water canteen from a third world country) immediately come to mind
    Currently wearing: Sung Homme by Alfred Sung

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Who can fail to mention Viktor and Rolf ___ Bomb? How camp is that??

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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    If by ‘camp’ you meant ‘exaggerated aesthetics’, these were abundant in robustly perfumey stuff from the late ‘70s through the ‘80s coinciding with the era’s penchant for big hairdos, aircraft carrier-shoulder pads, MC Hammer harem pants, etc. Step forward and take a bow...

    Kouros
    Drakkar Noir
    Giorgio for Men
    Azzaro pour Homme
    Poison
    Beautiful
    ...etc

    Interestingly, their packaging were on the subtler side.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  16. #16

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Cher Uninhibited

    anything Angela Ciampagna
    How do you know what a French whorehouse smells like?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    I think everyone — and by “everyone,” I mean mostly me — will acknowledge that the apotheosis of perfume camp is reposed somewhere within the house of O'Driù.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by schnozz View Post
    I think everyone — and by “everyone,” I mean mostly me — will acknowledge that the apotheosis of perfume camp is reposed somewhere within the house of O'Driù.
    Oh god yes, how could we not have thought of them?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Mostly everything by Britney Spears...and... Gwen Stefani's Harajuku Lovers line.
    Sono strano e sono orgoglioso di essorlo...

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Doesn't "camp" imply a knowing wink--meaning Avon and Britney Spears would be unknowingly, unironically camp. Or is camp a label that can be applied by the viewer (like "kitsch"), rather than an intentional motive given by the maker of such?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by schnozz View Post
    I think everyone — and by “everyone,” I mean mostly me — will acknowledge that the apotheosis of perfume camp is reposed somewhere within the house of O'Driù.
    OH MY GOD!! They have a perfume called: "Basenotes, Kiss my Ass!" XD If I'd known that, I would have definitely included that one in the other thread about perfumes that have the funniest names! XD (Sorry, no offense Basenotes admins, lol!)

  22. #22

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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Re: whether camp is knowing or not, from the exhibit I learnt that Susan Sontag distinguished the two types (citation from Notes on camp below):

    18. One must distinguish between naïve and deliberate Camp. Pure Camp is always naive. Camp which knows itself to be Camp ("camping") is usually less satisfying.

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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by Starblind View Post
    Doesn't "camp" imply a knowing wink--meaning Avon and Britney Spears would be unknowingly, unironically camp. Or is camp a label that can be applied by the viewer (like "kitsch"), rather than an intentional motive given by the maker of such?
    Hmmm. Good question.
    Sono strano e sono orgoglioso di essorlo...

  24. #24

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Re: whether camp is knowing or not, from the exhibit I learnt that Susan Sontag distinguished the two types (citation from Notes on camp below):

    18. One must distinguish between naïve and deliberate Camp. Pure Camp is always naive. Camp which knows itself to be Camp ("camping") is usually less satisfying.
    This is so, so true

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Re: whether camp is knowing or not, from the exhibit I learnt that Susan Sontag distinguished the two types (citation from Notes on camp below):

    18. One must distinguish between naïve and deliberate Camp. Pure Camp is always naive. Camp which knows itself to be Camp ("camping") is usually less satisfying.
    Interesting! So Avon (and stuff like Margaret Keane's big eyed paintings) are pure camp, but Gaultier's perfume is deliberate (and therefore less satisfying).

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Almost endless distinctions to be made here. Camp is also a mode of looking or a way to experience things that are not in themselves camp. Sontag uses the example of Art Nouveau, an aesthetic movement which was deeply serious politically and morally (particularly true of Catalan Moderisme - think Guadi, Puig i Cadafalch, etc). For weal or woe, Art Nouveau is more likely to be apprehended today as camp, but this is mostly borne of ignorance, which I think gives rise to a finer level of distinction that Sontag does address, In other words, many will assume that Art Nouveau is camp because they incorrectly assume it sprang from a camp sensibility. But her main point stands, one can view anything accurately known to be non-camp through a camp lens.

  27. #27

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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    According to Sontag...
    although later on she points out as well that

    Perhaps, though, it is not so much a question of the unintended effect versus the conscious intention, as of the delicate relation between parody and self-parody in Camp. [...]
    Successful Camp [...], even when it reveals self-parody, reeks of self-love.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by Starblind View Post
    Doesn't "camp" imply a knowing wink--meaning Avon and Britney Spears would be unknowingly, unironically camp. Or is camp a label that can be applied by the viewer (like "kitsch"), rather than an intentional motive given by the maker of such?
    Camp is aware of its "campiness", unlike kitsch which is unaware. Camp has an intellectual, cultivate approach that kitsch does not have. I would call the Avons more kitsch than camp. Avons, besides, are pretty and camp does not requires prettiness but can be quite upsetting and provocative.
    James Bidgood photos, Fassbinder's "Querelle de Brest", "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", "Auntie Mame"... they belong to the camp realm. And I would like to add "I love Lucy", "The Damned" by Visconti, Ona Munson in "The Shanghai gesture" by Josef von Sternberg, many Ken Russell's films.

    This said, and considered that camp is hard to define with terms (it's easier with examples) and that is more a mood, an attitude, an overall feeling ("Camp is a woman walking around in a dress made of three million feathers." — Susan Sontag), I would say that Ungaro's Diva and YSL Opium are examples of camp perfumes.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilturko View Post
    Camp is aware of its "campiness", unlike kitsch which is unaware. Camp has an intellectual, cultivate approach that kitsch does not have. I would call the Avons more kitsch than camp. Avons, besides, are pretty and camp does not requires prettiness but can be quite upsetting and provocative.
    James Bidgood photos, Fassbinder's "Querelle de Brest", "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", "Auntie Mame"... they belong to the camp realm. And I would like to add "I love Lucy", "The Damned" by Visconti, Ona Munson in "The Shanghai gesture" by Josef von Sternberg, many Ken Russell's films.

    This said, and considered that camp is hard to define with terms (it's easier with examples) and that is more a mood, an attitude, an overall feeling ("Camp is a woman walking around in a dress made of three million feathers." — Susan Sontag), I would say that Ungaro's Diva and YSL Opium are examples of camp perfumes.
    Good explanation. Thanks for this. I do like Ungaro Diva btw.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  30. #30

    Default Re: Camp: notes on fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    If by ‘camp’ you meant ‘exaggerated aesthetics’, these were abundant in robustly perfumey stuff from the late ‘70s through the ‘80s coinciding with the era’s penchant for big hairdos, aircraft carrier-shoulder pads, MC Hammer harem pants, etc. Step forward and take a bow...

    Kouros
    Drakkar Noir
    Giorgio for Men
    Azzaro pour Homme
    Poison
    Beautiful
    ...etc

    Interestingly, their packaging were on the subtler side.
    Poison is definitely camp; she ruins your perfect dinner and dares you to hate her.
    Baby Doll, another Dior?
    Tigress with the "tiger fur" bottle cap.




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