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  1. #1

    Default Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    To reverse engineer a certain flavor. I have a substance for which I want to have the most fitting smell within a perfume. I started a thread some time ago and experimented with A LOT OF ingredients but never suceeded. Since I am more mature now and accept that I will never succeed do you guys have some connections where to send a sample and get some suggestions for ideal ingredients? I am not planning to use it commercially, just put some flasks in my orders as presents.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    There are zillion companies that provide gc/ms analysis...that can range ( in my region) between 100-400usd per analysis. Maybe someone who knows more about it can gice better indications

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    Currently wearing: Y by Yves Saint Laurent

  3. #3

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by refael_sakura View Post
    There are zillion companies that provide gc/ms analysis...that can range ( in my region) between 100-400usd per analysis. Maybe someone who knows more about it can gice better indications

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    I have the substance from which I want to recreate the perfume. I already know the chemical compounds which are responsible for the flavor. The problem is to obtain the equivalent chemicals for the perfume. I am sorry but maybe I misunderstood your answer.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperImportantPerson View Post
    I have the substance from which I want to recreate the perfume. I already know the chemical compounds which are responsible for the flavor. The problem is to obtain the equivalent chemicals for the perfume. I am sorry but maybe I misunderstood your answer.
    Can you provide the chemical compounds in the flavor? That may help.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by bsouthers View Post
    Can you provide the chemical compounds in the flavor? That may help.
    Well, here is the list in descending order of odour threshold:

    1. Benzene
    2. Toluene
    3. p-Xylene
    4. Pentanol
    5. Trimethylbenzene
    6. Phenol
    7. Acetic Acid
    8. Benzaldehyde
    9. Isoamyl Alcohol
    10. Hexanoic Acid
    11. Hexanal
    12. Octanoic Acid
    13. Lauric Acid
    14. Valeric Acid
    15. Ethylbenzene
    16. Isovaleric Acid
    17. p-Cresol
    18. Phenylacetic Acid
    19. Trimethylamine
    20. Butanoic Acid

    The list is from "Juntarachat N. et al., J. Appl. Polym. Sci. 2013, DOI: 10.1002/APP.39356"

  6. #6

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Natural rubber? What do you like about the smell in particular?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    Natural rubber? What do you like about the smell in particular?
    I cannot really put it in a nutshell. I have a strong latex/rubber fetish. I taylor it and wear it. If it wouldn't kill me I would eat it, drink it inject it into my body and inhale it all day. So, yeah, well...and obviously it is not possible to recreate the smell with a perfume. There was something from Demeter I think, but the overall opinion was that it smelled like burning tires, that's not really something to go after.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Okay, what you like is your business.

    The benzaldehyde, hexanal, p-cresol and phenylacetic acid are easy enough to source.

    For the p-xylene and ethylbenzene you can try para-cresyl methyl ether and pure (>99%) styrene thinner (or styrax oil). For the phenol try m-cresol and a little guaiacol. For the pentanol and isoamyl alcohol you can try white cognac oil and a little isoamyl acetate. For some of the listed acids you can try acetoin, diacetyl and butter CO2 extract. For the trimethylamine you can try pyridine.

    Suppliers of some these include Perfumers World, Creating Perfume, Pell Wall and Hermitage Oils.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    Okay, what you like is your business.

    The benzaldehyde, hexanal, p-cresol and phenylacetic acid are easy enough to source.

    For the p-xylene and ethylbenzene you can try para-cresyl methyl ether and pure (>99%) styrene thinner (or styrax oil). For the phenol try m-cresol and a little guaiacol. For the pentanol and isoamyl alcohol you can try white cognac oil and a little isoamyl acetate. For some of the listed acids you can try acetoin, diacetyl and butter CO2 extract. For the trimethylamine you can try pyridine.

    Suppliers of some these include Perfumers World, Creating Perfume, Pell Wall and Hermitage Oils.
    Thanks for your effort and the tips, really. I might try some things, but I've already been through the process and, to be honest, tired of it. I already ordered so much from Heritage and experimented a lot. Don't know if I want to invest so much time and money again for a tiny chance of success. Therefore the title of my thread.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    Okay, what you like is your business.

    The benzaldehyde, hexanal, p-cresol and phenylacetic acid are easy enough to source.

    For the p-xylene and ethylbenzene you can try para-cresyl methyl ether and pure (>99%) styrene thinner (or styrax oil). For the phenol try m-cresol and a little guaiacol. For the pentanol and isoamyl alcohol you can try white cognac oil and a little isoamyl acetate. For some of the listed acids you can try acetoin, diacetyl and butter CO2 extract. For the trimethylamine you can try pyridine.

    Suppliers of some these include Perfumers World, Creating Perfume, Pell Wall and Hermitage Oils.
    Just a quick question:
    I noticed that denatured alcohol is quite horrific to use as solvent because of its own smell, is Isopropyl Myristate or Triethyl Citrate a good alternative?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperImportantPerson View Post
    Thanks for your effort and the tips, really. I might try some things, but I've already been through the process and, to be honest, tired of it. I already ordered so much from Heritage and experimented a lot. Don't know if I want to invest so much time and money again for a tiny chance of success. Therefore the title of my thread.
    You're unlikely to have much success with your first question.

    I personally wouldn't recommend that you make all of those substitutions. Many of the volatiles in rubber won't be integral to the character. I'd suggest that you keep it simple to begin with and try para-cresyl methyl ether, styrene (or styrax oil), p-cresol, 2,6-xylenol and guaiacol.

    Forget about benzothiazole, unless you like vulcanized rubber.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperImportantPerson View Post
    Just a quick question:
    I noticed that denatured alcohol is quite horrific to use as solvent because of its own smell,
    You may wish to try perfumers alcohol.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperImportantPerson View Post
    is Isopropyl Myristate or Triethyl Citrate a good alternative?
    You can use them to dilute your materials and as solvents in the fragrance concentrate. This can then be added to alcohol, oil or compound products. For further reading, see David's posts, below:

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/412...=1#post3638206

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/438...=1#post4122160

  13. #13

    Default Re: Advise to whom and where to send sample fragrance

    Ok, I will try some limited experiments with few of the substances and use Triethyl Citrate and perfumers alcohol. Let's see where it goes this time.




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