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Thread: Hinokitiol

  1. #1

    Question Hinokitiol

    If you could only pair one natural or nature identical compound with hinokitiol and nootkatone, what would it be?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Are you actually asking what pairs best with these materials, or is there something else under your question?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Yes, looking to build a very simple accord. Something that takes the mossy, forest floor edge off of hinokitiol.
    I would like to work with nootkatone now that biotech has learned how to make it / price should come down.
    I'm figuring since hinokitiol is from western red cedar and nootkatone is present in Alaskan yellow cedar, the two should pair fairly well together.

    Just wondering what my next material purchase should be to round off those two. I would like to build something very light and pleasant and not necessarily complex or lasting.
    (I'm new to the craft and to the forum so please forgive me if I've broken any of the etiquette rules).

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    I don't think one ingredient is going to do the trick, and I haven't smelled either by themselves, but perhaps Vetiver or Cedar. Or you could go the sweet route with benzoin or labdanum.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    I don't see why anyone would just use hinokitiol by itself. You might as well just use Hinoki EO and get all those other nice natural fragrance compounds in the mix.
    I personally think Hinoki would smell [even] better if it had less hinokitiol.


    By the way, I gave a detailed description of what Hinoki smells like with Pomelo EO here: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/452...d-Frankincense
    (Hinoki is high in hinokitiol and Pomelo EO is fairly high in nootkatone, which due to the simpler fragrance profile stands out better than it does in Grapefruit EO)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Thanks Runstile. Is there a preferred Cedar, for a fresh, uplifting scent?

    And thanks parker25mv. I also thought I would really like grapefruit EO only to find when mixing with it that it somehow was not what I was hoping for. Haven't tried Pomelo... but sounds ideal. And agreed... hinoki EO smells A LOT better than hinokitiol.

    Looking for something to put in a simple facial moisturizer I make. I have sensitive skin and hinokitiol is part of the preservative system but the mossy element is well... mossy. I live out in the bush so I thought nootkatone could change the odor a bit and bring some non-toxic bug repellency to the party. Was hoping to keep the addition(s) to single compounds only in case fragrance is part of the skin problems.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    If you could only pair one natural or nature identical compound with hinokitiol and nootkatone, what would it be?
    may i ask where you purchased the hinokitiol? its sounds like a very interesting AC!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    Thanks Runstile. Is there a preferred Cedar, for a fresh, uplifting scent?

    And thanks parker25mv. I also thought I would really like grapefruit EO only to find when mixing with it that it somehow was not what I was hoping for. Haven't tried Pomelo... but sounds ideal. And agreed... hinoki EO smells A LOT better than hinokitiol.

    Looking for something to put in a simple facial moisturizer I make. I have sensitive skin and hinokitiol is part of the preservative system but the mossy element is well... mossy. I live out in the bush so I thought nootkatone could change the odor a bit and bring some non-toxic bug repellency to the party. Was hoping to keep the addition(s) to single compounds only in case fragrance is part of the skin problems.
    You may want to try Cedar Atlas, it seems to be the brightest/most sharp (of what I've smelled), but start with small amounts as it can easily overpower anything. For once I'd probably recommend an unprocessed one; the Robertet Cedar Atlas Heart has most of the terpenic top notes removed and only the soft woody heart remains, but it's worth a try too, and it's definitely the most forgiving. I think the top notes would be dampened in a cream formulation and would add a nice therapeutic touch.

    Cedar Virginia smells like cedar furniture or wood chips, if you're familiar. I typically use it in my perfumes and have used it in cosmetics too, but only paired with things like herbs and citrus to brighten it.

    I'd probably steer clear of Texas Cedarwood, as it has a smokey note that I wouldn't associate with a facial product.

    Eden Botanicals is a good supplier and they sell sample sizes, check out their cedar inventory. It wouldn't hurt to evaluate and test them all in your formula.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    If you could only pair one natural or nature identical compound with hinokitiol and nootkatone, what would it be?
    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    Looking for something to put in a simple facial moisturizer I make. I live out in the bush so I thought nootkatone could.... bring some non-toxic bug repellency to the party.
    Black spruce perhaps -- clean, sharp, intirguing IMO -- at least to compliment the Nootkatone. I am not familiar with Hinokitiol, so maybe it won't work.

    As for the bug repellency: do you happen to know what % of Nootkatone will actually make this happen? I live in NY which is tick central, and would like to use nootkatone for this purpose too.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Have you looked at Hiba EO?

    Where are you obtaining single molecule Hinokitiol, BTW?
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    As you are making a facial moisturizer, if you're not committed to that preservative system and if you would like to do so, feel free to PM me as I have worked in that field. Another answer could be a scent-free natural system.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Where are you obtaining single molecule Hinokitiol, BTW?
    This place has hinokitiol as well as several other interesting things... https://aroma-uchiya.com/

    No, I haven't tried Hiba but now I'm curious!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    And thanks parker25mv. I also thought I would really like grapefruit EO only to find when mixing with it that it somehow was not what I was hoping for.
    I agree with you. Grapefruit is a wonderful smell, but sad to say, when making a fragrance it's probably better to use the synthetic than the EO.
    (or nootkatone itself, if you can source it, but that's really only the basenote in grapefruit)

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    so I thought nootkatone could change the odor a bit
    Most likely not. Nootkatone has a wonderful smell but the smell tends to be pretty subtle.

    Definitely I can tell you even a tiny bit of hinokitiol would completely overwhelm it, and the nootkatone would only be in the imperceptible background.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by DanaB View Post
    As for the bug repellency: do you happen to know what % of Nootkatone will actually make this happen? I live in NY which is tick central, and would like to use nootkatone for this purpose too.
    Here are a few links you may find interesting news article and suppliers datasheet.

    I feel like I saw reference to the efficacy of a 2% solution mentioned somewhere but I can't seem to find it now.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by parker25mv View Post
    Definitely I can tell you even a tiny bit of hinokitiol would completely overwhelm it, and the nootkatone would only be in the imperceptible background.
    My suspicion too. Thanks for confirming.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Thanks runstile for the Robertet cedar heart and Eden cedar samples suggestion.
    Pkiler I may look at Hiba to see if that form of hinokitiol helps with preservation but offers a better first whiff.
    Bill Roberts - Noted. Thanks. I have other natural preservatives in it too. Frankly it probably doesn't need hinokitiol but I feel it may be helping with my acne.
    DanaB - will take a look at Black Spruce as well.

    Thanks for all the help guys. I've been lurking on this forum for a while. It's quite a unique place.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    Pkiler I may look at Hiba to see if that form of hinokitiol helps with preservation but offers a better first whiff.
    I would strongly recommend Hinoki or Hiba to go with your nootkatone rather than pure hinokitiol itself.


    One more remote possibility to mention, Alaskan Yellow Cedar EO also contains both nootkatone and high levels of hinokitiol, but unfortunately it also has other things in it that can make the smell very smoky, so that may not be the type of smell you're after, and Yellow Cedar EO can be harder to source (probably because the smell of the EO is not appreciated as much).

  18. #18

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    I'm figuring since hinokitiol is from western red cedar and nootkatone is present in Alaskan yellow cedar, the two should pair fairly well together.
    If you were going to combine hinokitiol with nootkatone, you might as well use Alaskan yellow cedar.

    While it's true Alaskan yellow cedar is one of the rare materials naturally high in nootkatone, it's also loaded with hinokitiol, which almost completely overwhelms the much more subtle nootkatone smell.
    Besides that, there's a slightly mellow smooth cedar and deep sort of dark smokiness to the smell. fairly gingery.


    Also just to point out, I may be mixing up and confusing hinokitiol with gingerol, and may have mixed them up when posting about this in the past. Memory is failing. Somebody better do a check into that.

    Anyway, I know Hiba, Hinoki, and Alaskan Yellow Cedar are all species that are closely related to each other.
    The order of ginger smell is Hiba < Hinoki < Alaskan Yellow Cedar, with Yellow Cedar having much more than the others.
    Don't know about the nootkatone content in Hiba or Hinoki, might not be significant, but they do smell good. Would probably smell even better if they were not so gingery, in my opinion. Though that's part of why some people value the smell.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    I would like to work with nootkatone now
    Nootkatone is a weird one in its effects. It supposedly has a very low odor detection threshold, but at the same time even much higher levels of nootkatone are rather subtle in their smell. Which is unfortunate I feel.

    (Again, I might be wrong here, someone correct me if I'm wrong)

    I also want to apologize to norbit because it's possible this entire thread could be based on something I posted in the past that was wrong or that I got a little confused or mistaken about.
    A lot of this is from memory and I'm having some trouble remembering now.

    norbit, if you're the type of person who can do their own internet research, you might want to look into this yourself and double check.
    I'm not so sure all of my facts are right, on this topic.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Where did you come up with hinokitol as a beneficial skin treatment... I see it is used to decrease hyperpigmentation but that means less melanin which means more sun damage or less natural sun protection if you work outdoors, no? Not sure what you mean by live in the bush, since just one county away, people sometimes literally claim a bush.

    Also these two should have both cedar but mostly cypress aspects... which means somewhat sour as compared to pink-wood cedars? Don't know for sure as I don't have either, just going by my garden scents and looking at pictures of those leaves, they would i.d. more cypress scent. Hopefully someone will clear that up ... sweet vs sour?

    If I had to choose for what goes with cypress that is also for bugs, it would be tobacco or eucalyptus. Also try Abyssinian oil treatment at night, I work outdoors and get clogged skin from too much sunscreen/sweat and sometimes that helps what is like adult acne but it is from work, because it mostly happens in summer. It is a nice light oil that absorbs before you can get to sleep.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Hinokitiol

    Quote Originally Posted by norbit View Post
    I would like to work with nootkatone now that biotech has learned how to make it / price should come down.
    What do you know about nootkatol for similar use?




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