Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    106

    Default Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/p...genz-1.4410531
    The perfume which came out of computer

    Abstract

    One of it is a fougère notes, the other is based on floral notes. The creative mind behind these fragrances was the artificial intelligence "Philyra" developed by the IT corporation IBM (Greek goddess of fragrance).

    The German manufacturer Symrise has developed both perfumes with the help of Philyra. "Philyra has replaced traditional sweetness in the Fougère structure with a unique combination of spices such as cardamom and fenugreek, with a base note of warm milk," said David Apel, a senior perfumer at Symrise in New York who has been working for more than 35 years in fragrances creation. "That structure never crossed my mind, it's a unique combination of materials."

    The last major innovation in perfumery dates back to the late 19th century, it was the introduction of synthetic fragrance molecules. "The next big innovation is now the use of artificial intelligence in the creation of new fragrances," says Apel.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    compressed-43c6dfb4-e741-4612-adc8-fde2abd5d3cd.jpg
    https://www.focus.de/wissen/natur/ku..._10779099.html
    Noses are obviously overrated: Artificial intelligence creates perfumes

    Abstract

    In Brazil, the first perfume which come onto the market in June is designed by a computer system. It combined ingredients in ways that a human had never thought of. The artificial intelligence is called 'Philyra'.

    "I trained her and now she trains me," says Apel, perfumer for 39 years. The Artificial Intelligence Philyra bases its knowledge on a database, which comprises the composition of nearly 1.7 million perfumes. It also knows in which country, in which age group and at which sex a fragrance has sold particularly well. "Between all these creations, she finds space - possibilities that nobody has exhausted yet," explains Apel.

    In addition, the sense of smell does not matter in the perfume business, adds Daub. "The perfumer who taught me then told me: 'I know how a perfume smells when I know the composition.' That's what Philyra does. " Cosmetic company O Boticário had commissioned three different versions of the Perfume for the Day of the Lovers at Symrise: a version entirely created by the AI, a second one in which the perfumer had made minor adjustments, and a third one in which the proposal of the AI ​​served only as a suggestion; a perfumer created his own formula based on that.

    A jury at O ​​Boticário chose the fragrance that they liked best, without knowing which version was which. "The overwhelming majority opted for the 100% -AI-made perfume," reports Achim Daub.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    symrise-parfuem-david-apel-100~768x432.jpg
    https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute...arfum-100.html
    Perfumers pursue one of the last occupations with magical moments.
    But new fragrances and perfumes will come from computers in the future.


    Abstract

    "The customer dictates how the scent should ultimately smell," explains Daub. Perfume development is an extremely target-oriented business. The AI software Philyra was used to create a perfume for young people in Brazil. This is classic pattern recognition. But that combines Philyra with other methods of artificial intelligence. "In some cases we use neural networks, in other cases decision trees, which we rely on vector-based supercomputers," explains software engineer Richard Goodwin of the IT company IBM, which developed the technology for Symrise.

    It takes also fragrance oils of the competition in closer inspection. "This is a complex analytical process," says Daub. With gas chromatographers, perfume oils are broken down into their individual components.

    "Then you can see exactly which ingredients were used in which concentration," says Daub. So Philyra learns from existing recipes and transforms them. "Philyra knows it's all about the right mix," says software engineer Goodwin. The final decision on the new perfume creation is still reserved for the perfumer. "Philyra should not replace the human perfumer, but support," says Daub.

    Starting point for developing a new fragrance is an idea, says Apel. For several years, the group has been using artificial intelligence, ie learning algorithms to create flavor combinations and recipes. "Philyra uses the latest methods of machine learning to browse millions of fragrance formulas and thousands of raw materials," says Richard Goodman of the IBM Watson Research Center near New York.
    Last edited by Ivor Joedy; 11th September 2019 at 05:15 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating of creating perfumes

    Interesting! I too have been working on a fragrance with notes of cardamom. fenugreek, milk, bread, and sandalwood.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Wish I had access to thousands of formulas let alone millions... (TGSC really isn't that big)

  4. #4
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    There is also a article at symrise and a video at youtube:

    https://www.symrise.com/newsroom/art...se-are-workin/
    https://youtu.be/C8xELZDTGxM

  5. #5
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Sorry Bill for the newbie question, but I can't find th
    it. Are there any formulas on TGSC and if yes, then where ?

  6. #6
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Quote Originally Posted by MiDDeN View Post
    ... but I can't find it. Are there any formulas on TGSC and if yes, then where ?
    May be this? - http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/...dm1000822.html

  7. #7

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Not at all MiDDen, it's a great question, and also it's possible someone can add further advice I don't know as often I wonder if I'm squeezing everything out of TGSC that can be gotten.

    One way is when researching a material, let's say Lyral as an example: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/search2.html and I enter Lyral and search, I then get:

    http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/...x=0&submit.y=0

    I'll click on the Lyral listing and get: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1007972.html

    There, right under the supplier sponsors I'll get a fragrance demo formulas link: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1007972.html

    And there, so far as I know, will be every formula TGSC has that contains Lyral.

    Another way is to access the Perfumer Search Page, http://www.perfumersearch.com/

    Now we get a customized Google search. So let's say I want to learn about aftershaves that have lavender. I'll enter: aftershave lavender

    And I get a list of pages Google found on TGSC that have both lavender and aftershave in them somewhere.

    You can find at least some guidance this way usually, and sometimes a lot.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    If you're looking for more unusual combinations, here's one that I came up with

    Myrrh (see Myrrh, Note Pad: Single Note Exploration)
    milk (methyl laitone)
    cinnamon (or cinnamaldehyde)

    I was smelling some myrrh and noticing the celery/linseed oil and anise aspect notes in the fragrance, and it put me in the mood for some hot milk with cinnamon mixed in.
    You could have a perfume with only these three ingredient notes. The cinnamon is a natural aldehyde, so doesn't need anything else.
    The formula smells much less gourmand than it sounds. (methyl laitone is more like the milkiness in a milky wood, while cinnamon is used in oriental Golden Pavilion temple incense)

  9. #9
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Thank you Bill for a clear instruction I will certainly have it in my mind trying to explore TGSC!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    You're very welcome!

  11. #11
    Basenotes Plus
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    8,530

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Even when you do have thousands of Perfume Formulas...(I do) well, it's just not really possible to be able to collate, analyze, compare, and have as much analytical capacity with those formulas as this AI is capable of doing.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Thread about less known or not so usual ideas about creating perfumes

    Agreed 100%. I hope only to be able to get ideas about usage ranges and some ideas of tendencies of uses in various patterns -- e.g. these kinds of patterns of citrus are common for masculine colognes and relatively simplistic things like that -- but with no great depth. Way too much computation for that for a human ever to do. Gotta rely on our noses and visions!

    (But it's a timesaver to be working on likely-fruitful ideas rather than ones that seem never to have worked for anyone!)




Similar Threads

  1. Perfumes you own that go AGAINST your usual sensibilities or scruples.
    By Zealot Crusader in forum General Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 28th June 2019, 02:33 PM
  2. Any ideas for creating a passion fruit note
    By Tomolo in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 25th January 2019, 08:45 PM
  3. Creating Perfumes accords
    By caribbeanisland in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 15th July 2015, 11:38 AM
  4. How long have you been creating perfumes?
    By MissVanilla in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 26th September 2014, 11:39 AM
  5. Not the usual longevity / projection thread
    By keagz08 in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12th November 2012, 11:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000