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  1. #31
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post

    What I've found is that, usually, if people are complaining about someone's perfume, then that person is wearing too much.
    I get the sense that that is the case with nearly all "compliments" as well.

    On the broader topic, it's that bar-lowering societal trend of taking shameful, obnoxious or otherwise untoward behaviors and simply declaring them to be some form of positive act or even an accomplishment that gives rise to the kind of out-of-bounds behavior for which everyone ultimately pays the price. There's a cadre even within this community that believe that imposing their tastes on others through intentional over-application is somehow their right and duty.

  2. #32

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by ascotnot View Post
    There's a cadre even within this community that believe that imposing their tastes on others through intentional over-application is somehow their right and duty.
    Yes, they're seemingly proud of it, too. And oblivious.

    "I think I smell sexy" because, obviously, everyone thinks the guy with the obnoxious, bad perfume is sexy.

    "It's my personality" because personality is something that can be bought in a store and applied with a bottle.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    The sad truth is that it’s easier for management to eliminate behavior than it is to engage in nuanced discussion. In my not so humble opinion as an experienced manager and management consultant, the person who told you to stop wearing fragrance altogether just wants the problem off his/her desk. I’m sorry that you were on the receiving end of such a ham-handed response, but such responses are by far the most common.
    Currently wearing: Cuba Red by Cuba Paris

  4. #34
    Super Member Pallas Moncreiff's Avatar
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Office or any work policy should apply to all.
    If it’s a non-perfume environment, candles shouldn’t be allowed either.

    I cannot work if someone (near me) is wearing a perfume or scent, unless it is faint scent that gives an impression of cleanliness. So, it’s a blessing none is allowed in my work-environment- no perfumes, no flowers and no candles. And yes, I happen to be one of those people who will remove you if you persist... despite the fact I can’t imagine living without perfume.( I don’t wear in public ever, only at home).

    Scents can have strong associations and do influence emotions and attention. And in a close environment, you simply can’t take everyone’s preferences into account. It’s not a social setting where you can get up and leave.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by jrr2ok View Post
    The sad truth is that it’s easier for management to eliminate behavior than it is to engage in nuanced discussion. In my not so humble opinion as an experienced manager and management consultant, the person who told you to stop wearing fragrance altogether just wants the problem off his/her desk. I’m sorry that you were on the receiving end of such a ham-handed response, but such responses are by far the most common.
    What would you have done as the manager?

  6. #36

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Yep....no scents at all in the med field. I was asked to tone down my soap. Found out it was the hand sanitizer...

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  7. #37
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by gregburris56 View Post
    Yep....no scents at all in the med field. I was asked to tone down my soap. Found out it was the hand sanitizer...
    .

    Haha! I doubt if many patients object to the smell of disinfectants. But I suppose in certain countries even hospital grade disinfectants are made odor-free these days. Which is a shame as I love the ‘hospital scents’ of yesteryears.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  8. #38

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    I’m the boss, but I use discretion. I knew I had interviews this morning so I wore just 2 sprays of Himalaya. No sense in being a jerk about it just because I can.

    I also have started back wearing cologne to church, but only one or two shots of very light stuff (like Voyage d’Hermes). Again, no point in provoking an argument.

    Living in society does mean consideration for others. That said, there are some people you’ll never make happy.

  9. #39

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    A friend who was a nurse in the kidney unit of the hospital always wore Angel. Never had one complaint.

    She is now retired but said others nurses always wore fragrance. The operating theatre was always classed as a no and the asthma unit.
    DONNA
    Currently wearing: Hiris by Hermès

  10. #40

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Personal freedom is a privilege. Wage slaves mustn't grumble but work harder and faster, after all you're not there to enjoy perfume or to distract others from working hard and fast.

    It sucks, obviously.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    If I'm more than two feet away from you, I don't want to be able to smell you. Period. Whether that smell is perfume or perspiration, I appreciate when people keep it close. Then if it's not to my liking, I can "exit stage left" and it's the end of the story. I figure that works the other way around, as well. Have worked in a hospital for 32 years (with a no-scent policy for the last ~ 10 years) and have worn fragrance every day without a problem. Less is more, IMO.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    That's miserable. The working day can be dull enough, but when the only olfactory interest is a synthetic smelling candle - urgh! (I thank my lucky stars we don't have that kind of mindset in perfume-friendly France.)

    Have you thought of (lightly) spraying perfume onto a handkerchief or silk square and either carrying it with you or leaving it out on your desk? You wouldn't be wearing it, after all - and I can't see the difference between that and the offensive candle warmer.
    Along these lines, I got a fragrance diffuser bracelet off Etsy from this seller: https://www.etsy.com/shop/WildRootsD...g_id=488189080

    Edit to add:

    Curses. Etsy is also thick with some pretty cute lava stone bead jewelry, even some single bead twisted wire rings. I can see you thoughtfully resting your chin on your hand...looks like you're thinking but you're really sniffing. Discreetly. (I feel like I'm just trying to get you into trouble....) Hmmmm. I've never tried perfume on a lava bead and they are marketed as essential oil diffusers. Kai is my essential oil. Hello? Paypal? I need you....
    Last edited by Shycat; 21st September 2019 at 04:21 PM.
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Joke's on me! I just spent 20 minutes looking for a GIF to reply to LadyDragonFire's post that followed Shycat's, and when I came back, the post was gone!

  14. #44

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Cook.bot View Post
    Joke's on me! I just spent 20 minutes looking for a GIF to reply to LadyDragonFire's post that followed Shycat's, and when I came back, the post was gone!
    It's the poof! factor…
    ​"It was foolish of her not to have bought a larger bottle."

    Dorothy Eden, The Time of the Dragon

  15. #45
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonewithcologne View Post
    What would you have done as the manager?
    There are different viewpoints on this, but the general view is that the science on allergies or "sensitivities" to particular scents is weak, and such a policy is at best problematic and at worst unenforceable and a potential liability. One best practice is to move the complaining employee - after putting them through an extensive investigatory process involving HR, intended to communicate that if this is more about personalities than any bona fide health and safety workplace issue (and there's every reason to believe this until demonstrated otherwise), he or she's going to be the one to absorb the impact of the outcome more than anyone.

    But those recommended practices don't take into account underlying circumstances. If Madge marinates herself in Paul Sebastian Design such that there is no living bee within 50 miles of her, that's a little different than when the supervisor's first thought after the "offending" employee is identified is "I've never noticed anything."

    Many supervisors and managers are promoted into their positions without any actual managerial or supervisory skill (skills that are identifiable and testable). And because that's not why they got promoted, they will usually make no meaningful attempt - ever - to build those skills (aside from mandatory braindead "trainings" and swag junkets). Simply making a blanket rule for something like this is something they won't have to answer for - they're making the problem go away with minimal effort in order to protect anyone above them and that's all that matters at that moment. If it's something they can get called on, they will simply wait for that to happen then deal with it then. They assume most people won't individually put their job on the line to defend a principle, even one consistent with labor or tort law.

    That's why they're called "best" practices and not "most-often implemented" practices.

  16. #46
    Super Member Pallas Moncreiff's Avatar
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    So the science about allergic reactions, caused by contact leading to skin reactions or inhalation causing asthma or cough variant asthma is not weak. There is ample evidence. You can look them up in pubmed or Elsevier.
    There is a reason IFRA came into being, because without IFRA, regulatory bodies especially in UK and France were bent upon closing the perfumeries. IFRA assures them that perfumes are compatible with guidelines.

    New office guidelines in EU and North America are now moving towards (mandatory) no-perfume policy, and absolutely none in hospitals or associated healthcare labs or environment. Perfume is for outside work social settings, clubs or personal space.

    I keep perfume phials, when at work. No perfume wearing in public.
    Any scent (perfume or otherwise) that spills outside your personal space— fortunately or unfortunately— however you look at it, does have consequences and maybe more so in future.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas Moncreiff View Post
    So the science about allergic reactions, caused by contact leading to skin reactions or inhalation causing asthma or cough variant asthma is not weak. There is ample evidence. You can look them up in pubmed or Elsevier.
    There is a reason IFRA came into being, because without IFRA, regulatory bodies especially in UK and France were bent upon closing the perfumeries. IFRA assures them that perfumes are compatible with guidelines.

    New office guidelines in EU and North America are now moving towards (mandatory) no-perfume policy, and absolutely none in hospitals or associated healthcare labs or environment. Perfume is for outside work social settings, clubs or personal space.

    I keep perfume phials, when at work. No perfume wearing in public.
    Any scent (perfume or otherwise) that spills outside your personal space— fortunately or unfortunately— however you look at it, does have consequences and maybe more so in future.
    Evidently, my soft-pedaled analysis didn't quite get my point across, so I will dress it down a bit for clarity. That "ample evidence" does not support the idea that a person wearing a fragrance can trigger some real physiological reaction in someone else. No way would such exposure amount to anything near the kind of concentrations required to create the effect that you allege, which seems to equate a whiff of someone's sillage to having a fistful of raw oakmoss rammed into a mucous membrane.

    People with sensitivities at those imagined levels could never work in a workplace environment at all, where there are always present such substances as airborne toner, cleaning materials, off-gassing of synthetics in office furniture, pathogens of all kinds brought in by people commuting, food odors, HVAC conditioned air, and dust, not to even to get into the fact that fragrances are highly complex chemical pools from which it would be impossible to isolate the allegedly offending substance even if you were to search for it.

    Those claiming "sensitivities" are doing so in the colloquial sense, not any kind of accepted clinical sense. They are generally low-effort complainers with validation issues who lack any kind of meaningful engagement in their jobs or anything else, leading them to dwell on people invading their space, their air, their minds, etc. They are invariably people with emotional problems who claim victimhood for the attention that it brings them, not to meaningfully benefit their own health and well-being. They are problem-oriented people, not solution oriented, and they glom onto the plausible concept of fragrance "sensitivities" to gain what they cannot and will never be able to gain through initiative, accomplishment or pretty much anything constructive.

  18. #48

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Get a doctors note that says it’s your emotional support scent. Then you’re protected.

  19. #49

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron View Post
    Get a doctors note that says it’s your emotional support scent. Then you’re protected.
    Love this concept!
    ​"It was foolish of her not to have bought a larger bottle."

    Dorothy Eden, The Time of the Dragon

  20. #50
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron View Post
    Get a doctors note that says it’s your emotional support scent. Then you’re protected.
    Great idea, haha!

  21. #51
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    Default And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    I think it all comes down to application. I work at a hospital and have had family members wearing so much perfume that I could smell them down the hall even minutes after they have walked by. I had one person that wore so much I had to ask them to step out of the room because my COPD patient could not stop coughing. It could have been unrelated, but I felt like I couldn’t breath in there as well. I love fragrances as well, but I feel like the sprays get out of hand here in Basenotes. The more you spray the less you can smell over time. Which isn’t the case for everyone (normal people) around us.

    I feel like fragrances can be pulled off at work as long as the application is considerate to those around you.

  22. #52

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by jal3223 View Post
    I think it all comes down to application. I work at a hospital and have had family members wearing so much perfume that I could smell them down the hall even minutes after they have walked by. I had one person that wore so much I had to ask them to step out of the room because my COPD patient could not stop coughing. It could have been unrelated, but I felt like I couldn’t breath in there as well. I love fragrances as well, but I feel like the sprays get out of hand here in Basenotes. The more you spray the less you can smell over time. Which isn’t the case for everyone (normal people) around us.

    I feel like fragrances can be pulled off at work as long as the application is considerate to those around you.
    Good points and very well said

  23. #53
    Basenotes Junkie Alonewithcologne's Avatar
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by ascotnot View Post
    There are different viewpoints on this, but the general view is that the science on allergies or "sensitivities" to particular scents is weak, and such a policy is at best problematic and at worst unenforceable and a potential liability. One best practice is to move the complaining employee - after putting them through an extensive investigatory process involving HR, intended to communicate that if this is more about personalities than any bona fide health and safety workplace issue (and there's every reason to believe this until demonstrated otherwise), he or she's going to be the one to absorb the impact of the outcome more than anyone.

    But those recommended practices don't take into account underlying circumstances. If Madge marinates herself in Paul Sebastian Design such that there is no living bee within 50 miles of her, that's a little different than when the supervisor's first thought after the "offending" employee is identified is "I've never noticed anything."

    Many supervisors and managers are promoted into their positions without any actual managerial or supervisory skill (skills that are identifiable and testable). And because that's not why they got promoted, they will usually make no meaningful attempt - ever - to build those skills (aside from mandatory braindead "trainings" and swag junkets). Simply making a blanket rule for something like this is something they won't have to answer for - they're making the problem go away with minimal effort in order to protect anyone above them and that's all that matters at that moment. If it's something they can get called on, they will simply wait for that to happen then deal with it then. They assume most people won't individually put their job on the line to defend a principle, even one consistent with labor or tort law.

    That's why they're called "best" practices and not "most-often implemented" practices.
    Everything you said was brilliant! I hope I'll learn to do a decent job when I become a manager.

    Quote Originally Posted by ascotnot View Post
    Those claiming "sensitivities" are doing so in the colloquial sense, not any kind of accepted clinical sense. They are generally low-effort complainers with validation issues who lack any kind of meaningful engagement in their jobs or anything else, leading them to dwell on people invading their space, their air, their minds, etc. They are invariably people with emotional problems who claim victimhood for the attention that it brings them, not to meaningfully benefit their own health and well-being. They are problem-oriented people, not solution oriented, and they glom onto the plausible concept of fragrance "sensitivities" to gain what they cannot and will never be able to gain through initiative, accomplishment or pretty much anything constructive.
    LOL, you're amazing! I wish my professors were like you! And Cameron, beating the snowflakes at their own game is good thinking!

  24. #54
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonewithcologne View Post
    What would you have done as the manager?
    Just by going off the limited information available in the scenario, I would’ve asked the complainant to elaborate: is it all scents, one particular scent or scent family, or one person in particular? Hygiene and personal scent are delicate subjects, and I’d want to ensure I fully understood the nature of the complaint. By getting to the root of the complaint, I would then ask the complainant for what s/he considered reasonable accommodation. If his/her suggestions were reasonable (a big subjective “if”), I would take them under advisement and ask him/her to bring any further concerns to me.

    Only then would I go to the subject of the complaint with an explanation of the issue, and ask him/her for assistance in addressing the issue.

    Good workplace cultures are built on mutual respect and an appreciation for compromise. I suspect the problem could have been handled without an outright ban on personal fragrance for one individual. But again, I don’t have the whole story.
    Currently wearing: Cuba Red by Cuba Paris

  25. #55

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Alonewithcologne View Post
    What would you have done as the manager?
    As a "manager" in real life, if I were in this situation, I would ban all fragrances from the office in order to prevent any HR issues popping up if I had an employee make the complaint about another's fragrance, though I would not want to do this. If an employee complains that someone is wearing a scent that makes them "sick," I would speak to the "offending" party and let them understand the situation. If I fail to act on behalf of the "offended" party, I can become a target of the inevitable HR complaint that will be filed against me, and damned if I'm going to jeopardize my career over a fragrance issue.

    This is a great parallel to government getting too involved in the lives of the people. Once the powers that be are brought into mediate or regulate, it often becomes a slippery slope, and everyone loses out.

    That being said, almost every time someone says that another person's fragrance is bothering them, the "offending" party is always wearing too much fragrance, in my experience.
    Currently wearing: Bel Ami by Hermès

  26. #56
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Very unfortunate. The best part of my work day is my SOTD. I have actually had discussions with others at work about my fragrance collection and introduced a few to the wonderful world of Creed. Their spouses thanked me for it, lol!
    Current Favorites:
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  27. #57
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    The takeaway of the story is probably this:

    if you want to wear fragrances to the workplace you’d better be the boss.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  28. #58

    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    The takeaway of the story is probably this:

    if you want to wear fragrances to work you’d better be the boss.
    Or, at the very least, stop wearing so much of it.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty (sillage), to purchase a little temporary Safety (job security) deserve neither Liberty (sillage) nor Safety ( job security)."
    Summer grasses
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  30. #60
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    Default Re: And it happened - asked not to wear perfume to work

    We had this issue come up at my work last week. A lady was using perfume out on the production floor. It was a very strong floral scent, but it was very potent. There were several complaints. Several people wear fragrance, though, I've noticed. But you can't really smell it unless you're within a few feet of them.
    This new girl, though, it covered an entire side of the production floor. About a 30 x 30 foot area.
    There was a discussion about it during our facility-wide meeting and it was asked that everyone just be more discreet and careful about what they wear and how much.
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