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Thread: House of Caron

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  1. #31

    Default Re: House of Caron

    I enjoy Third Man and Pour Un Homme, but also Poivre, Tabac Blond and Parfum Sacre. The Narcisse Noir, even in the modern version, is an orange blossom delight!
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  2. #32

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Vintage Nuit de Noel is one of my favourites. Extrait, pre-1970 for preference. The mousse de saxe base is to die for, and the rose and sandalwood are divine.

    Farnesiana, En Avion, Tabac Blonde were also extremely good, though are now increasingly hard to find in vintage formulations, and very expensive if you do find them. Farnesiana EDP held up quite well in the version that was for sale a few years ago (before the NY boutique run by Diane closed its doors). Not sure how it’s fared since.

    I’d agree that the parfum formulation is the ideal way to experience these. There’s a richness to the composition of the parfums that makes them more successful, to my nose. I’ve always gotten along better with Caron than Guerlain, and the quality of the vintages particularly is evident.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    I've never really got on with Caron, despite the fact that I *ought* on paper to love it. I think it's the house note of cloves that makes its perfumes difficult for me, and some of them are difficult and complex (or were).

    Narcisse Noir was interesting in the olden days when it had civet to liven things up, but since then it's been flattened out - and I could say the same for Nuit de Noel and En Avion, which today doesn't really take you anywhere (a wink to a famous old Basenotes thread). I tried the latter in vintage for the first time this year and was seriously impressed, discovering similarities in terms of 'feel' to L'Heure Bleue. The masculines I never took to at all.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilpha View Post
    Ah, I meant to mention that the original version I had was Fleurs de Rocaille (1934). Some kind of chicanery led to another scent by them to be named Fleur(no s) de Rocaille. (1993)
    Quote Originally Posted by grayspoole View Post
    I have Fleurs de Rocaille and Nuit de Noel in the vintage EDT like this and they’re excellent.

    Attachment 109244
    This stuff is getting some love. I think I understand the Rocaille style and I'm interested to smell how Caron did it as a perfume. And I love hearing that the old edt's are good.
    Last edited by Bavard; 23rd September 2019 at 10:34 PM.

  5. #35

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Some years back I managed to grab a vintage bottle of Fleurs de Rocaille extract sealed with the gold wire looks 50mls which I worked out was from around 1960.

    I paid around £34! It was a man selling off some of his deceased aunt's stuff, he had it in with the normal items he sold which were work tools.
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  6. #36
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    I've sampled some of the early 20th century femmes and what masculines I have. I get a vibe that this house is painfully and undeniably traditional, French, and poised. They are without an interest in bombastic smells or gimmicky themes with novelty accords like many modern houses. This puts them at a disadvantage to the crowd who wants aromachemical sizzle and the "latest greatest", but makes for a comfy home to fans of perfume as art.

    Unfortunately, it's hard to make a living off the perfume as art crowd because we're always scouring the gray market to support our habit! I think Caron needs to do a mix of that ostensible classicism and modern novelty like Guerlain has, by keeping some classics around (mostly) unadulterated, while catering to the folks who want oud du jour or fancy upscale freshies when their designer juices won't suffice. For every handful of resurrected Nuit de Noel and Tabac Blond releases, there should be one Bleu de Caron or Something Something Fraiche to bring in new blood.
    Last edited by Zealot Crusader; 24th September 2019 at 10:22 AM.
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  7. #37

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Liking and owning especially Pour un Homme.

    However also recommending for either gender Eau Forte form the Les Eaux de Caron line, as a versatile and classy, quite understated and down to earth unisex all weather everyday citrus.
    Currently wearing: Baobab by Tesori d'Oriente

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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by grayspoole View Post
    To my nose, Nuit de Noel has to be be at least ½ Mousse de Saxe. Tabac Blond, En Avion, Or et Noir, and Parfum Sacre also have some. I have given up hope of ever finding a vintage bottle of Or et Noir, but with some of the Perfumers Supply House Turkish rose absolute and Saxony Base (a faithful reproduction of Mousse de Saxe), I feel I can survive.
    I'm adding Nuit de Noel and Parfum Sacre to the watch list.

    1. Tabac Blond (1919)

    2. Nuit de Noel (1922)

    3. Acaciosa (1924)

    4. Pois de Senteur de Chez Moi (1927)

    5. En Avion (1929)

    6. Fleurs de Rocaille (1936)

    7. Alpona (1939)

    8. Poivre (1954)

    9. Parfum Sacre (1990)

  9. #39

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    Unfortunately, it's hard to make a living off the perfume as art crowd because we're always scouring the gray market to support our habit! I think Caron needs to do a mix of that ostensible classicism and modern novelty like Guerlain has, by keeping some classics around (mostly) unadulterated, while catering to the folks who want oud du jour or fancy upscale freshies when their designer juices won't suffice. For every handful of resurrected Nuit de Noel and Tabac Blond releases, there should be one Bleu de Caron or Something Something Fraiche to bring in new blood.
    Have Guerlain's mainstream releases under Wasser been successful? My suspicion was that they really haven't been, and while the house is still probably profitable, there's good reason to be concerned about its future.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    I'm still on the fence about Pour Un Homme and may need to at least sample the multiple vintage versions. I think the Third Man is the best smelling from the current range - that clove and carnation heart is just superbly done.

    There are several mentioned in this thread from the feminine range that I ought to read more about and then get out and sample.
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  11. #41
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    No love for L’Anarchiste...?

  12. #42
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    I adoredTabac Blond parfum and owned some ca 2005. Glorious. I kept the laydown bottle and it still retains the fragrance.

    I currently own and love Aimez-Moi in eau de toilette; and Farnesiana and Parfum Sacré in eau de parfum. All are vintage, which I concur is the only way to go with this house.
    "I felt something so intense, I could only express it in a perfume." - Jacques Guerlain
    Currently wearing: Parfum Sacré by Caron

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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Lellabelle View Post
    Vintage Nuit de Noel is one of my favourites. Extrait, pre-1970 for preference. The mousse de saxe base is to die for, and the rose and sandalwood are divine.

    Farnesiana, En Avion, Tabac Blonde were also extremely good, though are now increasingly hard to find in vintage formulations, and very expensive if you do find them. Farnesiana EDP held up quite well in the version that was for sale a few years ago (before the NY boutique run by Diane closed its doors). Not sure how it’s fared since.

    I’d agree that the parfum formulation is the ideal way to experience these. There’s a richness to the composition of the parfums that makes them more successful, to my nose. I’ve always gotten along better with Caron than Guerlain, and the quality of the vintages particularly is evident.
    Quote Originally Posted by tdem1961 View Post
    I adoredTabac Blond parfum and owned some ca 2005. Glorious. I kept the laydown bottle and it still retains the fragrance.

    I currently own and love Aimez-Moi in eau de toilette; and Farnesiana and Parfum Sacré in eau de parfum. All are vintage, which I concur is the only way to go with this house.
    There's some love for Farnesiana. Fun name.

    That's high praise for the house, Lellabelle.

    Watch List

    1. Tabac Blond (1919)

    2. Nuit de Noel (1922)

    3. Acaciosa (1924)

    4. Pois de Senteur de Chez Moi (1927)

    5. En Avion (1929)

    6. Fleurs de Rocaille (1936)

    7. Alpona (1939)

    8. Farnesiana (1947)

    9. Poivre (1954)

    10. Parfum Sacre (1990)

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    I've never really got on with Caron, despite the fact that I *ought* on paper to love it. I think it's the house note of cloves that makes its perfumes difficult for me, and some of them are difficult and complex (or were).

    Narcisse Noir was interesting in the olden days when it had civet to liven things up, but since then it's been flattened out - and I could say the same for Nuit de Noel and En Avion, which today doesn't really take you anywhere (a wink to a famous old Basenotes thread). I tried the latter in vintage for the first time this year and was seriously impressed, discovering similarities in terms of 'feel' to L'Heure Bleue. The masculines I never took to at all.
    A little less love from Sam in London, but more love for the vintage feminines.

  14. #44

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    Default Re: House of Caron

    L'Avion and Heure Bleue-interesting.... but they both had some sort of anisic-violet note.

    I think the name Farnesiana comes from a species of acacia (mimosa/heliotropin), named after the Farnese family.

    cacio

  15. #45

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    L'Avion and Heure Bleue-interesting.... but they both had some sort of anisic-violet note.

    I think the name Farnesiana comes from a species of acacia (mimosa/heliotropin), named after the Farnese family.

    cacio
    It most certainly does! Acacia Farnesiana, or Mimosa Farnesiana as it is sometimes known, is a type of sweet Acacia. The absolute from the yellow blooms is called Cassie Absolute.

    Cassie Absolute also has a violet type note, as it contains ketone p-bromophenlyhydrazone1, as well as α- and ß-ionones, which are constituents that also have violet-like aromas.

    Farnesiana is an excellent mimosa perfume. Simpler than some of the other Carons, and almost a mimosa soliflore. It has that honeyed, powdery, hay-like, profile, with the sweet, salty, musky quality that is unique to Cassie. Very distinctive and there’s nothing I can think of that captures it so well as vintage Farnesiana.
    Last edited by Lellabelle; 25th September 2019 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Addition
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  16. #46
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post

    I think the name Farnesiana comes from a species of acacia (mimosa/heliotropin), named after the Farnese family.
    Indeed. Though every time I see it I think of Raphael rather than mimosa pompoms.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    A few more comments on Caron perfumes.... Thanks to this thread, I’ve been wearing my Carons, which is pleasant.

    Acaciosa
    and Farnesiana are pollen-y, heady florals. As Lellabelle has noted, Farnesiana is almost a “mimosa soliflore.” I found Farnesiana to be softer, with notes of almond and heliotrope. Acaciosa had that type of honeyed sweetness that has a sharp/bitter facet that catches in my throat. If you like Maria Candida Gentile’s Hanbury or Siderits, or Sonoma Scent Studios Nostalgie, you would probably like these. I remain ambivalent re: mimosa/cassie notes.

    I wore Bellodgia the other day from my bottle of extrait that dates from 1965 or 1975. Such a well-orchestrated spicy, mossy carnation perfume. Comparing Poivre and Bellodgia, I lean more towards Bellodgia, although I have enough Bellodgia to wear it fully and I have only sampled Poivre. The carnation/clove note that seems to be one of the key Caron signatures runs through these perfumes, but Bellodgia has layered more florals and over the eugenol or whatever it is. Bellodgia never feels "peppery" to me but Poivre certainly did.

    Here is my bottle:
    3DCBBFD7-7F2F-4C5C-A3F2-888CF8FC71C9.jpg

    Yesterday, I wore Fleurs de Rocaille vintage extrait, which does the usual Caron magic trick of lasting into the next day with a soft unfolding sillage of surprising layers and notes. The florals are pervaded by a dry green vegetal quality--I've seen clover listed somewhere and I think that is absolutely on target, but it could be the LOTV. The dominant flowers to my nose are jasmine, ylang, carnation, lilac, There’s rose in there too but as a rose lover I don’t find FdR especially rose-y. I also perceive oak moss and some modest civet in the base. Fleurs de Rocaille is a decidedly vintage mixed floral bouquet similar to Patou’s Amour Amour or Houbigant’s Quelque Fleurs. The individual notes are less important than the overall impact of the well blended, rich and refined floral notes.

    Not sure of the date of my bottle:
    IMG_3252.jpg

  18. #48
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    I was thinking why isn't anyone discussing the grand old dames (and some dandies) of Caron, and here we are...
    Nuit de Noel, vintage, is a thing of exquisite nobility. The MdeS base must have been a wonder to smell when the batch was recently made.

    Folks talk about Messe de Minuit's incense, but the deep dark gloom of Parfum Sacré is profound in its dimensions. Think Cathedral vaults, silence and still a dissonance which I call the Caron hallmark. The perfumer Jean-Pierre Béthouart kept his scent-note register on the same wavelength as Ernest Daltroff. Perfumery was Daltroff's true métier, and it is his personality that is Caron's trademark; a depth-note embedded in the perfumes, a certain neurotic dissonance inside its scent accords as if they are trying to come apart, but the base holds it all together.

    Alpona parfum is the scent I have probably worn to sleep the most.
    Farnesiana is the one I can't handle, the mimosa is tenacious, the yellow pollen dust in your nose and a dark sweetish undercurrent. There is no running away from it.
    Montaigne perhaps is most Non-Caron perfume for me because I find it pleasant and nothing remarkable. More so because all older Carons never tread a middle ground: you either love them or avoid them.

    Narcisse Noir parfum is something to behold. If Nuit de Noel is nobleness, then Narcisse Noir is seduction in its most primal peak. The Caron base is set in with perfect facets, the glooming, the depth notes up front, almost like enveloped in this sable fur which has a yellow-gold glisten to its coat. Narcisse Blanc has a chalky white note which remains a surprise every time I have smelled it.
    Yatagan is another where the austerity of notes resonates in its quiet presence.

    As mentioned above, Caron didn't emulate Guerlain or Dior's market model to add flankers or more fresh-vibe scents, to attract the average crowd. However, I do feel that to understand a Caron, you ought to have some knowledge of perfumery or if not that, at the least an innate quirkiness, which demands individuality.

    I have always thought of Caron as "Baroque", with its ornate base and glittering, at times, gaudy scent-notes… even before I ever saw a Caron-perfume urn. Seeing them just confirmed the image.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by thrilledchilled View Post
    No love for L’Anarchiste...?
    I need to try that one
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  20. #50

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas Moncreiff View Post
    I was thinking why isn't anyone discussing the grand old dames (and some dandies) of Caron, and here we are...
    Nuit de Noel, vintage, is a thing of exquisite nobility. The MdeS base must have been a wonder to smell when the batch was recently made.

    Folks talk about Messe de Minuit's incense, but the deep dark gloom of Parfum Sacré is profound in its dimensions. Think Cathedral vaults, silence and still a dissonance which I call the Caron hallmark. The perfumer Jean-Pierre Béthouart kept his scent-note register on the same wavelength as Ernest Daltroff. Perfumery was Daltroff's true métier, and it is his personality that is Caron's trademark; a depth-note embedded in the perfumes, a certain neurotic dissonance inside its scent accords as if they are trying to come apart, but the base holds it all together.

    Alpona parfum is the scent I have probably worn to sleep the most.
    Farnesiana is the one I can't handle, the mimosa is tenacious, the yellow pollen dust in your nose and a dark sweetish undercurrent. There is no running away from it.
    Montaigne perhaps is most Non-Caron perfume for me because I find it pleasant and nothing remarkable. More so because all older Carons never tread a middle ground: you either love them or avoid them.

    Narcisse Noir parfum is something to behold. If Nuit de Noel is nobleness, then Narcisse Noir is seduction in its most primal peak. The Caron base is set in with perfect facets, the glooming, the depth notes up front, almost like enveloped in this sable fur which has a yellow-gold glisten to its coat. Narcisse Blanc has a chalky white note which remains a surprise every time I have smelled it.
    Yatagan is another where the austerity of notes resonates in its quiet presence.

    As mentioned above, Caron didn't emulate Guerlain or Dior's market model to add flankers or more fresh-vibe scents, to attract the average crowd. However, I do feel that to understand a Caron, you ought to have some knowledge of perfumery or if not that, at the least an innate quirkiness, which demands individuality.

    I have always thought of Caron as "Baroque", with its ornate base and glittering, at times, gaudy scent-notes… even before I ever saw a Caron-perfume urn. Seeing them just confirmed the image.
    I've not smelled feminine Caron's, but I can say it rings true you need to understand French perfumery to get Caron; especially Pour un Homme. If all you know is Middle Eastern inspired ouds and whatever is at Neiman Marcus then it will seem perhaps pedestrian. I think the pricing in North America hurts the brand too; someone sees a $30 bottle with a three note pyramid and they write it off. I think Pour un Homme is some of the best perfumery one can buy in general.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    I've sampled some of the early 20th century femmes and what masculines I have. I get a vibe that this house is painfully and undeniably traditional, French, and poised. They are without an interest in bombastic smells or gimmicky themes with novelty accords like many modern houses. This puts them at a disadvantage to the crowd who wants aromachemical sizzle and the "latest greatest", but makes for a comfy home to fans of perfume as art.

    Unfortunately, it's hard to make a living off the perfume as art crowd because we're always scouring the gray market to support our habit! I think Caron needs to do a mix of that ostensible classicism and modern novelty like Guerlain has, by keeping some classics around (mostly) unadulterated, while catering to the folks who want oud du jour or fancy upscale freshies when their designer juices won't suffice. For every handful of resurrected Nuit de Noel and Tabac Blond releases, there should be one Bleu de Caron or Something Something Fraiche to bring in new blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas Moncreiff View Post

    As mentioned above, Caron didn't emulate Guerlain or Dior's market model to add flankers or more fresh-vibe scents, to attract the average crowd.
    Well, it looks like they tried, way back in 2004, with Miss Rocaille: fresh notes, pink packaging clearly aimed at a younger market. It's no longer on the website so I'm supposing it's been dc'd.

    But yes, we're miles away from Guerlain and the endless Petites Robes Noires.

  22. #52

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Thanks to the generosity of Camel, I’m sampling a side-by-side of Tabac Blonde lotion, from the 70’s, alongside my small sample of Tabac Blonde parfum, circa mid-2000’s. Accounting for the differences in concentration, there are some differences in the overall profile also, though they share much of the same general feel.

    The TB lotion is a much more balanced, nuanced thing. Similar in projection to the modern parfum on initial application, which surprised me. The opening rush of sweet, sun dried, blonde tobacco is delicious, and there’s a dusting of spice. It morphs into an extremely realistic scent of dry straw over the first couple of hours. Like falling asleep in a sun-warmed hay loft. I don’t know if the animalic associations I get are from the formula itself, or mere suggestions conjured by the hyperrealistic straw note: either way, I’m transported to a clean barn, ready for a well-cared for animal to bed down in. There’s a pastoral edge, that’s balanced and grounded by the soft tobacco and spice. It dries down to a soft, pollen-dusted beeswax. This only serves to heighten the sense of clean pastoral idyll.
    It’s very soft in its late stages, as would be expected of the lotion. I wish there was a little more strength here, as the dry down is just beautiful. The pollen-y beeswax is refined and elegant. I feel like there are tiny hints of the mimosa that we were discussing in Farnesiana, though it’s just the faintest whisper, contributing to the soft pollen that I sense. About 4.5 hours of life on my skin.

    The modern parfum shares much of the same note profile, but the notes express differently and the overall associations are different. The tobacco is more grassy, rather than straw. There’s a definite cinnamon edge to the spice, perhaps a touch of ginger, and it’s much more spice-forward than the vintage. It’s more sweet spice than tobacco. A very mild pipe tobacco, rather than tobacco in the field, run through with soft cinnamon. There’s depth, and strength, to the composition but it’s somehow missing the richness and silkiness of the lotion.
    It’s not linear, but it evolves considerably less than the vintage. I have to say, I like it better than the vintage in its mid stages, where the spice and tobacco are most in balance, and there’s an almost Tonka-patch sweetness lurking just at the edge of things. The dry down is a return to the cinnamon, with heliotrope and tendrils of soft tobacco in the background. It is giving me very strong associations with the dry down of Amouage Fate at this point, which is a high compliment as I think Fate is a marvel. It’s such a wonderful, and unusual combination.

    Of the two, if I had to choose one, I’d go for the vintage. I remember being disappointed with the TB parfum when I got the sample, as it didn’t compare favourably with my recollection of it. I’ve warmed up to it, I think, and would find it worthy if I didn’t already own and love Fate (which perfects the cinnamon-heliotrope-tobacco triptych for me). In case anyone was wondering if it’s a substitute for Fate, I’ll add that through most of its development it’s quite different. For me at least, Fate is a better fit throughout its development, but the modern Caron is a well-constructed, elegant perfume that retains Caron DNA. It’s understated, and would be easy to overlook if you weren’t a fan of Caron’s style. My sample is a few years old now, so hopefully the current versions are still good.
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  23. #53
    Super Member Pallas Moncreiff's Avatar
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by CutSmut View Post
    I've not smelled feminine Caron's, but I can say it rings true you need to understand French perfumery to get Caron; especially Pour un Homme. If all you know is Middle Eastern inspired ouds and whatever is at Neiman Marcus then it will seem perhaps pedestrian. I think the pricing in North America hurts the brand too; someone sees a $30 bottle with a three note pyramid and they write it off. I think Pour un Homme is some of the best perfumery one can buy in general.
    Absolument.
    And I stand corrected since I didn't mention two very elegant perfumes in Caron registry.
    Caron Pour un Homme and Pour Une Femme.
    When I first tried Pour un Homme, its lavender/vanilla component was startling and I feel Givenchy's Insense took its floral-inspiration from it.
    Where the Givenchy has a sunny note, Caron is a lush scent.

    Pour Une Femme de Caron is a ripe floral, it blooms in one's senses.
    I am of course talking about vintage material.
    In the last decade, I have refrained from buying Caron except for these two: parfum Alpona and Richard Fraysse's Accord 119 parfum..

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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Lellabelle View Post
    Of the two, if I had to choose one, I’d go for the vintage. I remember being disappointed with the TB parfum when I got the sample, as it didn’t compare favourably with my recollection of it. I’ve warmed up to it, I think, and would find it worthy if I didn’t already own and love Fate (which perfects the cinnamon-heliotrope-tobacco triptych for me). In case anyone was wondering if it’s a substitute for Fate, I’ll add that through most of its development it’s quite different. For me at least, Fate is a better fit throughout its development, but the modern Caron is a well-constructed, elegant perfume that retains Caron DNA. It’s understated, and would be easy to overlook if you weren’t a fan of Caron’s style. My sample is a few years old now, so hopefully the current versions are still good.
    Fate Woman smells like a vintage-quality fragrance to me. I still haven't tried Tabac Blond as I await delivery.

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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Infini.jpg

    This.
    Very clearly a case for corn flakes and classics

  26. #56
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    jujy54's Avatar
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    Yes to Yatagan, to which I will add a swift under-spritz of Tea Rose (heresy?).

    I adored Acaciosa, a tart and brilliant floral, which sadly, I knocked over one day. My bedroom was a den of floral naughtiness for weeks after.

    Infini I bought for the bottle (vintage), and appreciate more than love. An abstract aldehyde, Mondrian in fragrance form. The bottle, while beautiful, is impractical. all glass but for the stopper, the top broke off. I decanted it, but missed the experience of that temperamental flacon.
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  27. #57

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Quote Originally Posted by Oviatt View Post
    I own this one an 8mls of the extract and the Pdt version
    DONNA
    Currently wearing: L'Aimant by Coty

  28. #58
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    Default Re: House of Caron

    I got my sample of Tabac Blond edp. It's a modern version. I like it. It really is nice. It's not magical, as I've heard the vintage parfum described, but it's faultless otherwise. At worst, it's a little boring. It's smells like a heavenly version of Old Spice. There is an incensey sandalwood note and a touch of moss that's light but nicely done. It has a nice, sweet cashmeran (a synthetic also known as blond woods) type base.

    I've haven't researched much yet, but initial efforts at finding steals on vintage Caron minis have been fruitless.
    Last edited by Bavard; 2nd October 2019 at 06:44 PM.

  29. #59

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    Default Re: House of Caron

    This is a bit of the problem for current Tabac Blond. Nice and boring is not the way a daring, drama, reference perfume should smell like. But there's so much one can do without the bite of birch tar.

  30. #60

    Default Re: House of Caron

    Older is always better for Caron, even early 00s compared to the last few years. For the edp look for the peppercorn bottle as it was called.

    Strange people saying Farnesiana is mimosa as for me it was always heliotrope.
    DONNA
    Currently wearing: L'Aimant by Coty




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