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  1. #1

    Default I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Went into Ulta today and sniffed 8-10 different designer fragrances and they all smelled damn near the same.

    It's either some sweet tonka bean shit or some fresh ambroxan loaded citrus.

    Not all niche is good but at least it's different and daring.

    They don't just copy each other and keep putting out the same shit over and over like designers.

    Theirs some great designer frags but overall niche is better and way more interesting.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    In general, I agree

  3. #3

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    It is insane how similar they smell. I stopped wasting my time with designers, I just have some of the best ones like la nuit d'lhomme and burberry, but I no longer really bother

  4. #4

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I had a similar moment of depression after visiting my local Ulta. My local Sephoras are somewhat better, as are my local department stores (my local Lord & Taylor has a host of neglected stuff that is more interesting than a lot of the hyped newer releases). I'd give up on designer fragrances if it wasn't for places like Basenotes, where I can find good recommendations and honest reviews.

    I think "designer" fragrances are actually on the way out. Faux-"niche" is the future, like the Atelier Cologne and Jo Malone stuff you now find heavily promoted at Sephora, much of which is profoundly mediocre or awful. Stores like Target are mimicking that niche aesthetic, and not altogether unsuccessfully; the Goodfellow & Co. masculine line Target just released is overall much better-made than Atelier Cologne's stuff.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Prevailing mass market trends typically create such situations. Niche /artisanal perfumery offers alternatives but we don’t necessarily have to be snobbish about it. There’s crap to be found on both sides of the divide if we don’t learn to be discerning.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  6. #6

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Yeah a lot of designer stuff is samey samey. Le Male is still great. Niche is overrated though as very few of it is actual perfume and more so just concepts that weren't given enough to time flesh out into a perfume, but are still marketable.

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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Prevailing mass market trends typically create such situations. Niche /artisanal perfumery offers alternatives but we don’t necessarily have to be snobbish about it. There’s crap to be found on both sides of the divide if we don’t learn to be discerning.
    Agree with this statement.

  8. #8

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyronious View Post
    Went into Ulta today and sniffed 8-10 different designer fragrances and they all smelled damn near the same.

    It's either some sweet tonka bean shit or some fresh ambroxan loaded citrus.

    Not all niche is good but at least it's different and daring.

    They don't just copy each other and keep putting out the same shit over and over like designers.

    Theirs some great designer frags but overall niche is better and way more interesting.
    Basically. A lot of people don't care because they just want to smell nice or they just don't know. There are still good, interesting designer perfumes out there, but they're sometimes harder to find because they're often old and/or not popular.

    At the designer level, Dior and Chanel offer the most palatable fragrances for me. I just don't like their most current offerings. But, like, Égoïste? That's an all-time great as far as I'm concerned.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Designers feel more samey now because it's all about risk management. Older fragrances followed trends too (Kouros/Lapidus/Sybaris all from the same thought bubble, Jade East/Brut/Wild Country all from the same thought bubble, Ho Hang/Equpage/Gucci PH 76 also the same bubble).

    The key difference between how scents like One Man Show and Antaeus correlate versus how Bleu de Chanel and Luna Rossa correlate is older designer scents were made to follow genre out of artistic interest to improve or make a unique take within a given train of thought, that's why you still had mid-century style chypres being made as late as 1986 when Gianfranco Férre for Man was released. Hell, Gucci Nobile piggybacked off of a lot of 70's work like Dunhill Blend 30 and Paco Rabanne Pour Homme (just done very well). Furthermore, striations in the market did not exist after the postwar period like they did in the Gilded Age, but now they do again, so designers did not limit budgets for their perfumes because there was no higher-margin "prestige tier" that got dibs on R&D funds.

    Newer scents are designed by committee in a world that has accepted niche, luxury, designer, and budget tiers as standard now, and the perfumer is made to very narrowly follow a brief that literally dictates "must have ABC and be produced for under XYZ dollars because this isn't part of the niche line" since it's been proven those low-cost high-yield notes sell either by market research into past successes from the same house, or what other houses have done. In short, it's an echo-chamber where the marketing and finance groups have megaphones, and the perfumers are made deaf by all the screaming, while handcuffed to the inventory of whatever lab they work for (eg: Givaudan) if they're not a house perfumer that can purchase from a variety of sources.

    tl;dr: Tighter budgets and narrower palettes from which to create, both developed in part by the very market fracturing that the rise of niche caused (and more broadly the concentration of wealth and desire to make higher tiers of luxury goods with better margins available than in the recent past) is the reason "everything smells the same" in the designer segment. Many older designers either sank or swam to become pop culture legends or discontinued collector's obscurities bragged about by vintage forum users. Nowadays, with the level of competition, volume of new product bombarding the market, and aversion to risk in lower-margin segments like "entry level" designer perfume, you're just not going to see an Oscar de La Renta Pour Lui or Halston Z-14 anymore. If designers die out, another product at the same price point will take it's place, in the same manner body sprays replaced drugstore colognes.

    Yeah, niche is more and more becoming a land of filler too, since the striations have now furthered into prestige/haute-luxe/artisanal/etc and a lot of emperors new clothes operations have shown up to fleece the uninformed rich of their discretionary cash, but more or less it feels like there is greater variety in niche only because perfumers have less micromanagement from upstairs due to economy of scale and profit margin. In my experience, all the good designer tier stuff comes from the unknown houses that make fragrances to oblige a contract and don't care about sales volume past "keeping a good name on the shelf", with Cartier and Dunhill being good examples. Everything else is a happy accident.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Niche /artisanal perfumery offers alternatives but we don’t necessarily have to be snobbish about it.
    True.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I feel similarly.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I think that very interesting concepts have been said in this thread.
    But it´s my opinion that you can find great mainstream fragrances today.
    Guerlain, Chanel, Cartiel and Dior: very good things in there.
    Best,
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  13. #13

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Disagree, I have a huge variety from my ‘designer’ collection. They definitely don’t all “smell the same”
    My top 30

    1. Gucci Envy / D&G By Man
    2. Amber Sky /Cedrat Boise
    3. Costarela / TFK Arab Spring
    4. Dior Homme Intense / Incense Oud
    5. Dior Homme Cologne / Chez Bond
    6. Layton / Aventus
    7. Antidote / By the Fireplace
    8. Gucci Pour Homme / Armani Attitude
    9. Black Phantom / Baccarat Rouge 540
    10. D&G The One EDP / M7
    11. Santal Majuscule / Reckless
    12. Diadema / Prada L’Homme
    13. Habdan / Tuxedo
    14. Lira / Dior Homme Sport 2012
    15. Citric Santa Eulalia / Clive X

  14. #14
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I am jaded by the state/ oversaturation in niche perfumery. Where can I go too next? ����

    Jokes aside, I’m exploring a select few indie houses and slowly exploring more classics that I’m not familiar with. Sort of like a self imposed tunnel vision.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Here is a wide variety of scents from my designer collection that don’t smell alike and cover different seasons/occasions

    This doesn’t take into account all the fantastic discontinued designer scents that can still easily be purchased online or the brands I don’t whether people would classify as designer or niche such as Chopard/Lancome/Margiela/Mancera etc.

    I won’t post the lot because it’s a waste of time and effort, but without even trying too hard I bet I can easily come up with more than 50 that don’t overlap.. I’ll just go with obvious ones using my wardrobe as a quick reference

    Armand Basi - Basi Homme
    Azzaro - Wanted by Night
    Baldessarini - Secret Mission
    Burberry - Brit Rhythm Intense for men, London, Summer
    Calvin Klein - CK One Shock For Him
    Carolina Herrera - 212 VIP Men, 212 VIP Black, Insignia, Prive
    Chanel - Allure Homme Sport Edition Blanche, BDC Parfum
    Christian Dior - Dior Homme Cologne, Homme Intense/Parfum/Sport, Sauvage Parfum
    Davidoff - Silver Shadow, Cool Water, The Brilliant Game
    Dolce & Gabbana - The One EDP, K
    Dunhill - Icon
    Ferrari - Bright Neroli, Essence Oud
    Giorgio Armani - Acqua Di Gio, Code, Eau de Nuit
    Givenchy - Gentlemen Only Casual Chic, Pi Extreme, Play Intense
    Gucci - Guilty Oud, Guilty Intense, Absolute
    Guerlain - Habit Rouge, L'Homme Ideal Cologne
    Hugo Boss - Boss Bottled Tonic, Bottled Intense EDP
    Issey Miyake - L'Eau d'Issey Pour Homme Sport, Noir Ambre
    Jacques Bogart - Club 75
    Jean Paul Gaultier - Ultra Male
    Laura Biagiotti - Roma Uomo
    Mercedes Benz - Club Black
    Mont Blanc - Legend Special Edition, Presence
    Mugler – Cologne, A*Men
    Paco Rabanne - Invictus Intense, One Million Lucky/Intense
    Prada - L'Homme, Amber Pour Homme Intense
    Ralph Lauren - Polo Red Extreme
    Sarah Jessica Parker – Stash
    Ted Lapidus – Altamir
    Tommy Bahama - Set Sail St. Barts
    Trussardi – Riflesso, Blue Vibe
    Valentino - Uomo Acqua, Uomo Intense
    Vera Wang - Vera Wang for men
    Versace - Man Eau Fraiche
    Viktor & Rolf – Antidote, Spicebomb Extreme
    Yves Saint Laurent – Kouros/Silver, La Nuit de L'Homme, L'Homme Ultime, Jazz, Y EDP


    Then if you go into the private collections of the ‘designers’ such as Armani, YSL, Dior, Carolina Herrera etc. you have an endless variety of fantastic fragrances.

    Again I won’t even include all the options, just ones which I have in my collection and I'll just stop after around 10

    From YSL – Tuxedo, 6 Place Saint Sulpice, Sleek Suede, Caban, Caftan & Splendid Wood
    From Dior – Ambre Nuit, Spice Blend,
    From Herrera – Neroli Boheme, Burning Rose, Mystery Tobacco, Virgin Mint, Bergamot Bloom, Vetiver Paradise
    From Armani - Rose D'Arabie, Oranger Alhambra
    Elie Saab - Essence No. 3 Ambre


    And so on….these all smell the same to you?

  16. #16
    Super Member morning light's Avatar
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I had a similar experience in the men's section at Ulta. They all smell like an issue of GQ magazine and it's a little tiring. So I just waltzed over to the women's section, sprayed some Hypnotic Poison on me (a true gem among designers), and just went about my shopping.

    WAIT Viktor & Rolf Spicebomb can stay lol, that one is truly lovely
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  17. #17

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Yes, first we had one do a honey note and suddenly every designer house brought out their own version.

    This was followed by pink pepper.

    Now it is oud, everyone and their granny seems to have oud in their fragrances.

    It just gets boring after a while.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Yes, first we had one do a honey note and suddenly every designer house brought out their own version.

    This was followed by pink pepper.

    Now it is oud, everyone and their granny seems to have oud in their fragrances.

    It just gets boring after a while.
    The problem is that designer houses are solely about making a profit, it kills off a lot of the artistry. So when one makes a popular, high-selling fragrance, all of the others jump on the bandwagon and we get 50 fragrances all smelling fairly similar. Even a lot of the bigger niche houses are going for sales and mass-appeal, can you blame them for trying to make a profit?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Now it is oud, everyone and their granny seems to have oud in their fragrances.
    Nah, just in the names of their fragrances.

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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I sometimes feel that way. Especially when sniffing the current lineup at a place that is not very well stocked. But I generally like designers, and to be honest that is what I enjoy wearing the most. I feel like I enjoy sampling niche more, though. I have 27 bottles in my wardrobe at the moment, and 5 I would consider niche. Something about a bottle with super limited distribution puts me off. I do think looking for vintages of popular fragrances is pretty fun though. I do think there is something about the more fragrances you have the more distinct and odd of a fragrance you need to stand out from the pack.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    I have managed to find Good, in every "class". I own many "designers". I own many "niche". However, I will admit that the last time I went sniffing at a department store perfume counter, most I tried, did, all smell similar. This Boscov's store had a much larger selection decades ago, so that in itself was disappointing.
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  22. #22

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    There’s crap to be found on both sides of the divide if we don’t learn to be discerning.
    Oh, my forays into niche have been fraught with peril.

    I haven't had better luck with niche in terms of finding actual quality, though, on the whole, niche does tend to be more adventurous. But adventurousness is only commendable if it leads somewhere satisfying. There's a lot of stuff from respected niche houses that feels undercooked or tryhard, and then there's a lot of faux-niche stuff that's just garbage made from mid-tier designer-grade materials sold at a premium to get the dollars of undiscerning shoppers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    In my experience, all the good designer tier stuff comes from the unknown houses that make fragrances to oblige a contract and don't care about sales volume past "keeping a good name on the shelf", with Cartier and Dunhill being good examples. Everything else is a happy accident.
    Yep, those houses that exist in a space where there isn't a push for MAKE THAT NEXT BLOCKBUSTER!

    This is one reason I try to pay attention to newer houses or lines, just because they seem to try to throw stuff at the wall. (Example: the incredibly bold, niche-y MAC Shadescents line.)
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Hits and misses on both ends IMO.
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Designers aren't a limited field, but if you're shopping at Ulta, then yes. Their inventory and shelf space is quite limited.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks Otterlake View Post
    I think "designer" fragrances are actually on the way out. Faux-"niche" is the future, like the Atelier Cologne and Jo Malone stuff you now find heavily promoted at Sephora, much of which is profoundly mediocre or awful. Stores like Target are mimicking that niche aesthetic, and not altogether unsuccessfully; the Goodfellow & Co. masculine line Target just released is overall much better-made than Atelier Cologne's stuff.
    I actually like some of the stuff by those brands, but rarely enough to pull the trigger on any.

    Some of Sephora's other brands that are pseudo-niche I'm decidedly less keen on.

    Nest
    Clean Reserve
    Commodity
    Fresh
    Phlur
    Maison Margiela

    Basically, safe and boring fragrances for soccer moms with a bit higher disposable income.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    I think that very interesting concepts have been said in this thread.
    But it´s my opinion that you can find great mainstream fragrances today.
    Guerlain, Chanel, Cartiel and Dior: very good things in there.
    Best,
    BruceB
    Dior and Cartier are doing some of the better stuff, new Guerlain and Chanels are something of a disgrace.

  27. #27

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarce View Post
    I actually like some of the stuff by those brands, but rarely enough to pull the trigger on any.
    Atelier Cologne and Jo Molone have some decent offerings, but you have to dig to find 'em. The bulk of their lineups are trash.

    Take Atelier Cologne Vanille Insensée, a transparently cheap, plasticky vanilla scent (pretty close to the Pacifica Tahitian Vanilla you can grab at Target for $20) horribly blended with some smoky elements and sold at an egregious "luxe-niche" premium.

    Now that exists in the same lineup as Orange Sanguine, which is pretty nice as far as a recreation of blood orange goes, but even then I don't think that it's worth the retail price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarce View Post
    Some of Sephora's other brands that are pseudo-niche I'm decidedly less keen on.

    Nest
    Clean Reserve
    Commodity
    Fresh
    Phlur
    Maison Margiela

    Basically, safe and boring fragrances for soccer moms with a bit higher disposable income.
    Yep.
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks Otterlake View Post
    I haven't had better luck with niche in terms of finding actual quality, though, on the whole, niche does tend to be more adventurous. But adventurousness is only commendable if it leads somewhere satisfying. There's a lot of stuff from respected niche houses that feels undercooked or tryhard, and then there's a lot of faux-niche stuff that's just garbage made from mid-tier designer-grade materials sold at a premium to get the dollars of undiscerning shoppers.
    This is well-said. While with current designer you may have to pick through some degree of “me-too” sameness to find the (many) gems, with niche there’s plenty of silly pretentiousness and amateur or rushed compositions that, to make it all worse, ask a ridiculously high price just so you can buy into the marketing veneer. Plus, honestly if you were to walk into the niche equivalent of Ulta and just smell one after another side by side, you’d run into the cliches of niche: oh, another rose-and-oud; here’s that damn woody-amber base again; woooow someone used incense for the umpteenth time; ooh what have we here, the dark “mystery” of yet another labdanum bomb? I mean, there are some fantastic niche fragrances just as there are fantastic mass-market designers, but there are also in niche some bottles of complete dreck, relying on familiar and cheap aroma-chemicals and not much else, that will rid you of triple the money that a designer equivalent would. All so you can buy into the dream.

    Both tiers have their own perils. You gotta find the stand-out designers that do what designers used to do more often. You’ve gotta find the stand-out niche fragrances that do what niche was originally supposed to do. But I have to say, these days I lean more toward the designer tier, if only because it doesn’t have the baggage of charging you ridiculous markup when it does clobber you with mediocrity, whereas niche has the gall to have you pay extra for the sham, making it just that much more offensive when it happens.

  29. #29

    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    Quote Originally Posted by onethinline View Post
    Both tiers have their own perils. You gotta find the stand-out designers that do what designers used to do more often. You’ve gotta find the stand-out niche fragrances that do what niche was originally supposed to do. But I have to say, these days I lean more toward the designer tier, if only because it doesn’t have the baggage of charging you ridiculous markup when it does clobber you with mediocrity, whereas niche has the gall to have you pay extra for the sham, making it just that much more offensive when it happens.
    :::nods:::
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: I see why some people become Niche Snobs...

    What bothers me personally the most is that almost all designer fragrances are made out of cheap chemical crap and they smell horrible




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