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  1. #31

    Default Re: Filtering and dilution techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by abcd1234 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback so I guess the only way to find out is to macerate both in a cold environment and at room temperature and compare the results?
    You can simply macerate the whole at room temperature (or in a cool cellar if you like), filter it and pour of some for further refrigeration. Does it lead to further clouding or precipitation (observe closely under a bright light)? If not, then refrigeration probably won't be necessary in the future.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Filtering and dilution techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    You can simply macerate the whole at room temperature (or in a cool cellar if you like), filter it and pour of some for further refrigeration. Does it lead to further clouding or precipitation (observe closely under a bright light)? If not, then refrigeration probably won't be necessary in the future.
    Thanks. So what is the purpose of cold maceration then? To slow down the speed at which chemicals mix so as to achieve what?

    If mixing them slowly (ie. in a cold environment) does not result in clouding, I believe the clouding will still happen eventually when you take it out of the fridge and into room temperature (where it is warmer and so speeds up chemical reaction)?

    In other words, an equilibrium is reached (like how filousoph explain here: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/431...ing-maceration) regardless of whether you macerated it cold or at room temperature.

    What am I missing?

  3. #33

    Default Re: Filtering and dilution techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by abcd1234 View Post
    Thanks. So what is the purpose of cold maceration then? To slow down the speed at which chemicals mix so as to achieve what?

    If mixing them slowly (ie. in a cold environment) does not result in clouding, I believe the clouding will still happen eventually when you take it out of the fridge and into room temperature (where it is warmer and so speeds up chemical reaction)?

    In other words, an equilibrium is reached (like how filousoph explain here: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/431...ing-maceration) regardless of whether you macerated it cold or at room temperature.

    What am I missing?
    The cooling solidifies the waxes so you can filter them out. And it slows some reactions so the perfume doesn't age prematurely--which may or may not be desirable to you depending on your circumstances.

  4. #34
    Super Member Ivor Joedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filtering and dilution techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by Pears View Post
    If you were making fragrances composed largely of naturals, especially extracts, then you may want to do the filtering after maceration.
    Thank You Pears. I like this «Last Minute Filtration». And then this pinch of residue waxes can be put in jojoba.
    :-) Zen in the art of perfume making.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Filtering and dilution techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by abcd1234 View Post
    Thanks. So what is the purpose of cold maceration then? To slow down the speed at which chemicals mix so as to achieve what?
    Cooling lowers the solubility of the compounds in the alcohol. If they are compounds with a very low solubility in alcohol, such as waxes, then they will become supersaturated upon sufficient cooling and typically nucleate to form crystals. If the solution is cooled for long enough, then the crystals will grow in size and agglomerate together to form larger particles, which can then be filtered out.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Filtering and dilution techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by abcd1234 View Post
    If mixing them slowly (ie. in a cold environment) does not result in clouding, I believe the clouding will still happen eventually when you take it out of the fridge and into room temperature (where it is warmer and so speeds up chemical reaction)?

    In other words, an equilibrium is reached (like how filousoph explain here: http://www.basenotes.net/threads/431...ing-maceration) regardless of whether you macerated it cold or at room temperature.

    What am I missing?
    In many cases, the compounds formed will remain dissolved. For synthetic mixtures it is easier for the perfumer to predict the reactions (unless using bases of unknown composition), but natural materials are complex mixtures and it is therefore more difficult to predict. That is one reason why you may want to filter after maceration. Nonetheless, in most cases the naturally present lipids are likely to form the lion's share of the precipitate. I say lipids more generally because it often isn't just the waxes.

    When the maturation stage for the fragrance concentrate is long, then many of the reactions will have already taken place by the time that you add the alcohol. In which case, it may be okay to cold filter it shortly after adding the alcohol. Not that I am recommending one way over the other though. Some perfumers prefer a longer maturation while others prefer a longer maceration. You must find out what works best for you.
    Last edited by Pears; 1st October 2019 at 08:59 PM.




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