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  1. #1

    Default Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Short background: My friend and I are trying to launch a perfume brand.

    Everything was coming along well until when I contacted several label and logo designers and we were asked a series of questions:
    - Who is your target audience?
    - Who are your competitors?
    - What is your label positioning?

    Honestly, we just thought of creating a perfume that smells great and went ahead scrambling to get it ready to sell. But the issue is, we do not know who the target audience is or how to position the label.

    Any advice on how to go about figuring this out?

    I now realize we should have done this in reverse (market position -> fragrance creation). But then again, this is our first rodeo so we expected to make a lot mistakes along the way. I went ahead to read this book called The Perfect Scent and came away even more confused. These creators never seemed think much about what market they will be targeting. They just thought of what the theme will be and ran with it. Example, Sarah Jessica Parker just said she wanted it to smell like 3 fragrances she liked and they just iterated from that till they got something she approved of.

    Should we be doing the same?

    Thank you all.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    You should also consider, What's our UVP? (unique value proposition)

    In other words, briefly, what is it about your brand that is why some people will decide they want your brand?

    It shouldn't be the perhaps obvious ones of "our perfume is the best you'll find" or "best for the price" because that's unrealistic and won't be true at all.

    As an example UVP, check Paul's site. Of course yours will be different, but it's a good example of reading a website and being able to see for yourself how a webpage can communicate why a given brand offers a particular reason or few reasons to go with it.

    Part of this can be fame, which these days can be largely just social media, and having followers and an audience already. To them, the person has some UVP right there. That for example would be why Sarah Jessica Parker could have a brand launched for her with very little or no reason besides her name for people to decide it's a brand they want. If you're in that position, fantastic, you may have UVP taken care of.

    As another example, Chris Bartlett's Pell Wall brand also communicates a UVP (websearch will find it.) He's not a celebrity but did build a name for himself, and his overall design and amount of information available communicates as the UVP "Bespoke from very knowledgeable and equipped man who is a respected expert." I think for many people, after finding it, Pell Wall will be the only such source they know of, particularly when limiting to within the UK. So for the market segment for whom that idea appeals, he has a good chance of getting them. It's not just random offerings alleged to smell good or offering best bargain.)

    Sometimes a successful business has this in only a simple sense, such as location giving them advantage.

    If no UVP, then a lot more thought is needed for any business.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    As an example UVP, check Paul's site. Of course will be different, but you'll see how clear it is why Paul's customers are choosing his brand.
    Thanks. I believe you are referring to Paul Kiler? I recall him helping me out on a question the other day. I had a look at his site. Obviously looks great.

    However, I cannot figure out what his UVP is? Will you mind giving me some examples of what you noticed?

    What I take away reading the site is that they use the "best materials available to Perfume Composer Paul Kiler".

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    He does bring out that point.

    An important, I think, aspect of this that not many talk about, as for myself I had only one employer who brought it out to me and I don't recall it being said even in some outstanding marketing and branding books and articles, is very preferably there is a fear which the potential customer has or which you can activate to some extent and your product takes care of this fear while others may not or do not. You don't want to be blatant with this. But when you do a good job on this it's very effective.

    To me, Paul here does a great job of playing on the fear that other perfumes may cheap out on ingredients, maybe even with some pretty crappy substitutes or in any case certainly not the best. I have no idea if he had an effective Machiavellian tactic here or whether it's simply fortuitous from him telling the truth.

    Aside from the above rather unusual point to bring out about marketing, it still is part of the UVP. The consumer doesn't believe that everybody uses the best materials (because probably 99+% of what is sold does not.) I believe most perfume buyers are skeptical about this for most brands. Now just by itself, that might be taken as being an unproven assertion that no one would pay attention to.

    However, Paul also brings out Award Winning. And sure enough, he is. Hmm, now it's plausible he's telling the truth on the above.

    He also brings out that he's an independent perfumer rather than this being a big brand. Some want to buy from a small independent perfumer.

    How many independent perfumers do you know of who have such impressive awards? So, already unique probably for most viewing the site.

    Further, the overall design, particularly logo, is very arty. You already have the strong impression you're dealing with an artist.

    Lastly (at least in this list) he presents himself as an individual in a way that some will relate strongly to, others perhaps indifferently but your goal is never to reach everyone.

    To me it's pretty clear that for some people the idea of a Paul Kiler perfume will be very appealing without their having even smelled it. His brand seems different from others rather than "me too."

    Paul's branding is strong enough IMO that some years back, for a particular cosmetics deal I wanted the client to pay him mostly to get his logo and name. Not because he had submitted a sample or he would have been the only one who could have gotten it done well enough. (Client refused the cost and I did it myself, but if that client had been successful with his brand, which he wasn't, I still think he would have been damn smart to have the PK logo on it and have the claim of being perfumed by Paul Kiler.)

    People click to buy a PK perfume or sample based on this presentation of why his brand is unique, not based on the price or the actual smell, as they haven't smelled it yet.

    The reasons you present will be different but after viewing your material, there does need to be a reason why people feel your brand offers something that sets it apart and marketing needs to communicate that effectively.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    He does bring out that point.
    An important, I think, aspect of this that not many talk about, as for myself I had only one employer who brought it out to me and I don't recall it being said even in some outstanding marketing and branding books and articles, is very preferably there is a fear which the potential customer has or which you can activate to some extent and your product takes care of this fear while others may not or do not. You don't want to be blatant with this. But when you do a good job on this it's very effective.
    Thank you! This writeup is immensely helpful. When viewing his site again after reading what you wrote, it made more sense.

    Damn, guess it's back to the drawing board for us. But at least we have a sense of where to go now!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?




    .

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Hi, yes, being an artist, photographer, graphic designer, (perfumer) personality, I am my own client, (and presently,) do everything myself, and all of my work is an expression/extension of myself, of course. Plus, I'm not a person to put on airs, and project something other than myself. Trust me, I'm not going to be wearing a pony tail and dark glasses constantly.
    With that said, I did have a choice of style of my logo to work out. What I didn't want to do, is to assume something that wasn't me, in the negative, but was me, in the positive.

    SOOO many lines have their logos that try to connect with European royalty, crests of heraldry, etc., that have zero relationship with reality. Their logos are simply trying to create some kind of manufactured prestige. Just look at the myriad fragrance line logos that use this imagery. When I started, many people were highly critical of my logo, for NOT following this prestige pattern. Since my own family's members last left Europe in the 1800's for America, I feel zero attachment to europe or anything family crest originating in Europe. I am an American, and I am not European. That was the reason for not using some kind of crest logo. And, in the world of fragrances, my logo is quite unique. I also designed it to work well in both positive and negative space, and to be used quite creatively into the future. My Logo does not limit the presentation styles and types. The Crest logos can only be presented in one way. My logo can go in many many different directions, by treating it as a graphic, as a picture, as a container, and as a 3 dimensional projection of several types. My logo allows for a lot of future creativity in how it is used, and that IS, BY DESIGN. Maximum creativity and diversity was my desire. And it is a from the ground up logo, meaning the two letter characters do not come from any font.

    My other reason for creating my Logo, was so that my own aesthetics create everything, (when money allows it), so that it is my own artistic persistence of vision, that marks my own creations. It is identified with me, because it is indeed my own unique style, art directed and implemented by me.

    So, abcd1234, take a look into yourselves, deeply, and draw out what is inside you, first. THEN, try to direct your design package to reflect that, in a way that communicates well to your target audience.

    PK Logo collection of usage examples.jpg
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Great to see you chiming in Paul! Grateful that you are providing such advice even though I am a potential competitor of yours.

    It's really impressive that you did that all by yourself. When I first had a look at your site I thought "this guy probably got professional help with the logos, photos etc". Little did I know you did it all by yourself.... How long did it take you to acquire all those skillsets?

    Also thanks for your advice on not trying to manufacture prestige. I certainly know what you mean having viewed many other competitors. I would feel like a complete poser if I went down that path. There has never been any royalty in my blood line or even the country I belong to so doing that will just make us look stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    So, abcd1234, take a look into yourselves, deeply, and draw out what is inside you, first. THEN, try to direct your design package to reflect that, in a way that communicates well to your target audience.
    I suspect this will be alot tougher than I initially thought....

  9. #9

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Quote Originally Posted by abcd1234 View Post
    Short background: My friend and I are trying to launch a perfume brand.
    You are not selling a fragrance ... you are selling emotions, feelings, vibes, a story ... With that in mind, there is a shitload of considerations to deal with. Who do you want to wear your product? Surfers? bohemians? housewifes? academics? Different customer group might require different pricing, different story, different marketing, different packing and so on.

    This is a field i find almost equally interesting as the fragrance itself... Because you are dealing with so many different topics, economics, psychology, branding, story telling and so on.

    I would really like to hear the continuation of this story... Keep us posted!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    I will send you a message tonight with the contact info from the design agency that helped us to launch our brands. They are super affordable and they have contacts for pakcaging.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldara View Post
    You are not selling a fragrance ... you are selling emotions, feelings, vibes, a story ... With that in mind, there is a shitload of considerations to deal with. Who do you want to wear your product? Surfers? bohemians? housewifes? academics? Different customer group might require different pricing, different story, different marketing, different packing and so on.

    This is a field i find almost equally interesting as the fragrance itself... Because you are dealing with so many different topics, economics, psychology, branding, story telling and so on.

    I would really like to hear the continuation of this story... Keep us posted!
    Thanks. This is way more complex than what we anticipated so doubt we will be able to provide meaningful updates in the short term. But will certainly keep you updated if we get there

    Quote Originally Posted by caribbeanisland View Post
    I will send you a message tonight with the contact info from the design agency that helped us to launch our brands. They are super affordable and they have contacts for pakcaging.
    Thanks! Yes, that will be helpful.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Just sent you a msg

  13. #13

    Default Re: Fragrance DIYers, how did you determine the brand positioning of your creation?

    Quote Originally Posted by caribbeanisland View Post
    Just sent you a msg
    Thank you, got your message!




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