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  1. #1
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    Default Cinnamon top note

    What are the cinnamon materials other than cinnamaldehyde with high top note impact?
    I'm using overdose of cinnamyl cinnamate for the effect but would like to reduce it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    I don't really place Cinnamyl Cinnamate as either strongly "Cinnamon", or as topnote.

    You can look this up:
    Cinnamalva, (E)-cinnamyl nitrile, CAS#1885-38-7
    Is probably your top choice, for a cinnamon strong topnote.

    but you may use these as well...
    Alpha methyl cinnamaldehyde
    Cinalkex (Cinnamic Alcohol replacer)
    Cinnamic Alcohol
    Paul Kiler
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Thanks!

    In fact I am trying to blend something smelling of a generic bubble gum but with little cinnamon residue.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Cinnamic aldehyde is I am pretty sure the or the main flavor ingredient used in actual bubble gum.

    Is there a reason besides IFRA to not use the authentic item in the amount needed?

    It's not a literal top note but can certainly make itself known with the "toppy" materials.

    (I haven't tried Paul's suggested replacements except of course for cinnamic alcohol and so am in no way suggesting those I haven't tried couldn't be great substitutes, Cinnamalva in particular looks promising especially if needing actual top.)

    EDIT: Somehow I missed your saying you want little residue, meaning I guess you really don't want it lasting long. Cinnamic aldehyde is to me at the upper end of base (I'm sure many would instead say longer-acting end of mid) but at least it's shorter than cinnamyl cinnamate, which also isn't bubble-gum cinnamon-y,

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Yeah... thanks Bill Roberts. That confirms my suspicion about the bubble gum flavourings.
    I'm fine with IFRA, the cinnamaldehyde makes 0,02% of the concentrate so far and decreasing.
    The materials I'm searching needn't be top notes. I just want them to hint on generic bubble gum once in a company of sweet thick sirupy citrus. Thus the search of cinnamon related materials.

    By the way, I have a formula with 11 ingredients, single molecules, that somehow makes people smell clove buds even though no ingredient in in the formula has clove as a descriptor in TGSC. In fact, only one of the 11 materials, used at 2%, appears on senary list for spicy. Just food for thought...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Sorry to jump on your topic but does anyone know how to create the cinnamon you find on baked dough? When I smell the essential oil it smells nothing like cinnamon sticks/ cinnamon powder on desserts? Any help??

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMalteseTweed View Post
    Sorry to jump on your topic but does anyone know how to create the cinnamon you find on baked dough? When I smell the essential oil it smells nothing like cinnamon sticks/ cinnamon powder on desserts? Any help??
    There is quite a difference between Cinnamon leaf oil and Cinnamon bark oil. Which one do you refer to? Cinnamon leaf oil is predominately eugenol and of course the bark is predominately cinnamaldehyde. I also believe that a little goes a long way, and the "baking smell" you speak of is really under-dosed compared to the terrifically powered EO.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    EDIT: Somehow I missed your saying you want little residue, meaning I guess you really don't want it lasting long. Cinnamic aldehyde is to me at the upper end of base ,
    Yes, XII asked for a topnote, so, Cinnamyl Nitrile is significantly shorter lived than Cinnamic Aldehyde...
    Ah, Now he says it doesn't have to be a topnote... I guess my work is done if there is no target.
    Paul Kiler
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    It seems to me that overall, no reference to xii, very very many people jumble being "toppy" (airy, fresh, bright, light-feeling, "high pitched") or having immediate presence with being a top note (low substantivity, disappearing early.)

    It's a key distinction both for planning, e.g. making sure the level of a toppy base-note aldehyde forms a balanced accord with the other base notes, and for communication.

    Not saying this was an issue here but was reminded of it, as this comes up all the time.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 8th October 2019 at 06:09 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Whatever works. Some people confuse short retention time in the capillary column of gas chromatograph with being top or diffusive or whatever else it obviously isn't. But as long as it helps them create good blends I don't give a darn.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    have you tried Cinnamon bark CO2 ?
    'Today I'm a star. What will I be tomorrow? A black hole?'
    — Woody Allen

  12. #12

    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    Whatever works. Some people confuse short retention time in the capillary column of gas chromatograph with being top or diffusive or whatever else it obviously isn't. But as long as it helps them create good blends I don't give a darn.
    Well, if for example someone asks for a "top note" material but they mean something different than the reader understands as "top note, " due to one or the other using the term contrary to standard meaning, it makes a difference to communication and to the answer.

    That is all that I meant.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Quote Originally Posted by Godmu View Post
    have you tried Cinnamon bark CO2 ?
    I imagine cinnamon bark CO2 to be tremendous. I have only cassia bark absolute and it's pretty enough, but I can't use it because of levels and deadlines.

    What eventually worked for me was a somewhat different approach. I reduced cinnamyl cinnamate to one fourth of the initial amount removed all other cinnamon related materials except methyl cinnamate which I also reduced massively. Then I added a tiny amount of trans - 2 - hexenyl (leaf aldehyde) which did the job. Then I experimented with other materials that could support or replace heavily restricted leaf aldehyde and ended up adding traces of Manzanate, Montaverdi, Toscanol and Anther.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cinnamon top note

    Very interesting! Thank you!




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