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  1. #1

    Default Gentlemen fragrance formula

    Hello, I have been reading this forum for a while and now I would like to share a formula with you.

    This is something I am really happy with but it lacks longevity and projection.

    I would be grateful for any advice.


    Ambroxan 10% //16,4%
    Ambrox Super 10% //6,6%
    Cedramber //5,5%
    ISO E Super //8,6%
    Sylvamber //5,5%
    Cedarwood Virginia //2,5%
    Clearwood //11,8%
    Norlimbanol 10% //5,5%
    Oakmoss Abs 5% //1,1%
    Veramoss 10% //1,1%
    Okoumal 10% //1,1%
    Coumarin 10% //1,3%
    Kephalis //1,1%
    Tonalid //5,5%
    Hedione //6,6%
    Hedione HC //6,0%
    Cardamon EO 10% //4,4%
    Nutmeg EO 10% //1,1%
    Tobacarol //1,1%
    Ginger fresh EO //2,0%
    Black Pepper EO 10% //1,1%
    Pink Pepper EO 10% //0,9%
    Bergamot EO //2,2%
    Creed Accord (J. Sparla) //1,1%

    Total 100%

    Thank you in advance,
    Esdi

  2. #2

    Default Re: Gentlemen fragrance formula

    One reason for apparent low strength is almost 40% of your formula is at 10% strength (or even less in one case.)

    So if you now diluted this "concentrate" in a normal way, the result will be weaker than typical for diluting to that percentage.

    I understand why you did it, and there's nothing wrong with doing your work this way, but if doing it this way, understanding is better if correcting for the dilutions in your accounting.

    So, if in the course of I'd events I'd written the formula that way I'd convert to:

    Ambroxan 1.64
    Ambrox Super 6.6
    etc.

    and have a total of something like 60, and would then multiply by 10/6 (or whatever the exact ratio is) to get


    Ambroxan 2.73%
    Ambrox Super 11%
    etc.

    I would also keep track of my alcohol or other diluent, if I was using so much dlluent along the way, and know that for example that the concentrate part of my "concentrate" is only say 60%, or whatever it is, of the total. I'd then dilute with further alcohol according to the weight of aromamaterials, and count the alcohol already in there as being part of the alcohol needed.

    For example, if I wanted to dilute concentrate to 20%, and I had 10 grams mixed, I'd figure this as 6 grams needing dilution to 30 grams total, of which 4 grams was already in there. So I'd add 26 more to get a true concentration of 20%.

    In contrast if I were diluting the above without thinking about these things, I'd say I had 10 grams of concentrate and so would dilute it with 40 grams further alcohol on top of the 4 grams already there. My real concentration would be 6 grams in 50 grams, or only 12%,

    If I expected it to perform like a typical 20%, I might be blaming my formula when actually it wasn't to blame.

    Of course you will see many professional formulas have items in there at 10% or even 1%.

    However, one to three things are going on there that make that work fine in these cases. First, materials of ordinary odor strength are not pre-diluted. So the amount of dilution occurring isn't nearly as much as with your above formula, making potential error much less.

    Second, commonly the formula is made to add up to more than 100 (or more than 1000) to account for the diluents. You might commonly see a formula add up to say 1215, but if you account for diluents such a formula will often be quite close to 1000.

    Lastly, the professional perfumer will judge further dilution for the parfum, the edt, etc individually rather than being locked into a set percentage. So even if he or she did neither of the above, it would still come out the right strength in the end.

    Other than the strength reason, it's also better to figure as I am suggesting because you will become familiar in a consistent way with how materials work at given true percentages or parts per thousand. A lof ot confusion will result when for example in one formula your coumarin is this value, and in another it's some number that looks less on paper, but is actually higher due to other materials happening to be less diluted this time.

    If one time your 3.0 is out of 60 total (though called 100), while another your 3.0 is out of say 90 total (again called 100) it will be harder to get a handle on things or even perhaps impossible if not really being cognizant of the difference.

    Lastly, as to why your formula might be disappointing to you for the stated reasons even beyond it likely being diluted too much when you evaluate it, once the ginger, black pepper, and bergamot (top notes), and cardamom, nutmeg, and pink pepper (mid notes) are gone, it's not a very characterful base.

    As a suggestion, try making a base that you're pretty pleased with all by itself as what you'd like to have once everything else is gone, and then see how it works with the rest of your ideas and adjust from there.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Gentlemen fragrance formula

    Final thought:

    There is a lot to be said for deciding beforehand as part of your vision whether you want a Chypre, a Fougere, or an Oriental.

    Perhaps some might add "or a Grojsman accord type." But please don't do that for a gentleman's fragrance. I might lose my lunch.

    It is a tough road to try to succeed outside these categories, at least if wanting a perfume that keeps smelling good for a long time.

    This isn't any of these.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Gentlemen fragrance formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    There is a lot to be said for deciding beforehand as part of your vision whether you want a Chypre, a Fougere, or an Oriental.
    This isn't any of these.
    I speak up to say, boxes of categorization are not always the path to take. Sometimes outside the box is the answer.

    Personally, I've never paid attention to these boxes of conformity.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Gentlemen fragrance formula

    I have to say that I agree in my own work, as I've had successes hat fit none of these, but it seems to me that what you yourself can do, a beginner and for that matter an intermediate or myself may stumble at or fail entirely.

    No resins, no labdanum, no patchouli-type, no vetiver-type, not really any animalics, no floral not even if counting lavender or geranium, little coumarin, scant citrus, only scant oak moss -- I think it's hard for a beginner to have success when abstaining from so much of these and being so light on the remainder.

    Deciding in advance for one of those classic categories would guarantee having some of these and in a combination that frequently works. I am just saying it is easier for the beginner to get a happy result to decide on a proven category and, so to speak, thus stand on the shoulders of giants rather than the only way.

    Personally, I wouldn't (you very well may) know how to fix this formula as a masculine other than by moving it into one of these categories.

    EDIT Well, on that last statement, actually I guess I could give this general idea a sound base while being short an ingredient or two from fitting any classic category and get away with it. So I suppose I shouldn't have said that last sentence.

    And, by recommending picking a category, I feel I am leaving much more in the OP's hands as a perfumer than by suggesting he add specific ingredients, yet still providing guidance that can lead towards good additions and his own vision.

    E.g. he might have many masculine Chypres or Orientals he loves and therefore be quite captivated by the idea of going in one of those directions, while I would have gone Fougere. I would rather suggest a path to improving it that way than by recommending ingredients. It's his creation.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Gentlemen fragrance formula

    Thank you Bill Roberts for these comprehensive responses.
    Your first post has given me something to work with, your last something to think about.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Gentlemen fragrance formula

    You're very welcome, Esdi!




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