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  1. #181

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    I don't get that "conspiracy theory" vibe here.

    If PDM or any of the reviewers had made an effort to hide any collaboration, they certainly wouldn't have uploaded videos showing several PDM scent's release parties where they all came together. Everyone was able to watch those clips.

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    Removing raw material from the ears for the next Parfums de Marly.
    Designer Dumbledore.

    New PdM = Pensif

    giphy-facebook_s.jpg

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Timing of lists, they probably set them all complete sets of all their scents. Then the reviewer us like, "well i got these 30 bottles, ill pick my top 5 and push some content. Thatll get some views." I trust these people as much as a SA. Many are mostly money grubbers.
    It’s tragic to think that heroic man’s great destiny is to become economic man, that men will be reduced to craven creatures who crawl across the globe competing for money, who spend their nights dreaming up new ways to swindle each other.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    my overall average score of PdMs I've liked versus dislike swings in favor of liked. The early stuff has some good freshies, some of the ouds and gourmands are really nice, the leathers, and fougères. The only ones I really dislike are Layton, Herod, and Galloway, which ironically happen to be the most popular.

    I'd definitely track down Godolphin, Akaster, Carisle, Percival, Kalan, Sedly, Ispazon, Nisean, and Darley if I was going to collect the house. The marketing copy is still irritatingly gauche and pretentious, but so is Creed. Just part of life at this level of the market. Sister label Initio is really interesting though, arguably more interesting than PdM.
    If Zealot Crusader is saying there are more PdMs that he likes than dislikes, thats saying something!

    Quote Originally Posted by slpfrsly View Post
    Layton is genuinely a wonderful masculine scent. Sexy yet classical - remnants of Le Male's designer-aromatics, with the sweet-sexiness of an apple accord that was popular 15-20 years ago, and still is today. And it does it without smelling juvenile, like YSL's Y. It does it by not smelling cheap, either. There's a difference between a 'cheap' scent and a simple or designer-inspired scent. Too many people are judging them on association - they think because Le Male is cheap, that Layton is cheap. Nope. Nothing about the scent smells rough or cheap.
    Agree 100%. I've said it before, Layton is one of the most "opulent" and/or "regal" fragrances I own. It just smells amazingly rich and beautiful and this is one of the only scents I have a hard time believing that people could hate.

    At the end of the day, if this is the worst thing you could say about PdM, I think they're doing ok. You COULD do a lot worse. (and I hate when people bring the MSRP into the conversation. If you're paying MSRP for a PdM fragrance, you're an idiot.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Latency View Post
    Top quality presentation and long lasting fragrances that will get you compliments. You could do MUCH worse.
    Currently wearing: Bois du Portugal by Creed

  5. #185
    Dependent Beck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by IsoESuperman View Post
    Designer Dumbledore.

    New PdM = Pensif

    giphy-facebook_s.jpg
    LOL. If at least he was as skillful as Dumbledore...

  6. #186
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
    If Zealot Crusader is saying there are more PdMs that he likes than dislikes, thats saying something!
    I guess the bottom line here is they're generally a pleasant, non-challenging house with silly marketing and price tag. So far the only houses that have really had more bad than good for me are Jimmy Choo and Byredo.
    oh look, I have a signature
    Currently wearing: Green Irish Tweed by Creed

  7. #187
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by tspencer View Post
    It's my suspicion that Parfums de Marly are covertly paying the most well known youtube influencers. The youtube reviewers are pushing the hell out of Kalan like their money depends on it. They are shooting videos with PdM reps and Demi Rawling's review and 'edited' street opinion video is at the top of the google search for the fragrance. I know a forced sales pitch when I hear it/see it and ALL of the most popular youtubers are over-doing it.
    Definitely/obviously.

    I bought Layton Exclusif (sample) and while waiting, looked up youtube reviews. Let's be honest, they're pretty...bland...at the best of times. No youtuber has told me anything that basenotes or fragrantica cannot - maybe the odd on here or there, but certainly not the big hitters. 'Reaction' videos are inherently more interesting and genuine...if they're genuine.

    I was intrigued that a certain youtuber's sister found Layton Exclusif 'even better' than Layton and, I'll admit, was hoping that it really was going to be better than the original - reader, it isn't. Layton Exclusif is pretty foul and no inexperienced nose is going to enjoy it either, nor is a woman going to find it 'sexy' let alone better than Layton. There is no way it isn't acting - but it's very persuasive, very powerful.

    If Jeremy Fragrance is a 'teller' - he tells you what to think, repeats his branding and buzzwords over and over again - then Demi is a 'shower' - not as overt, not as clear, she's 'showing' you that a scent is "sexy" and women will like it, rather than Jeremy's forceful 'COME ON GIRLS YOU LAAAAAVVV IT' (not quite those words).

    All that said...yes, clearly, Parfums de Marly's marketing and use of influencers is grubby and disgusting and...everything. But who cares? Do you want to look in to the ethics of the fashion industry? The rampant use of slave labour among the large fashion houses, the destructive use of materials and fuel etc. Literally no one is exempt in this - perfume is a luxury and if you have a problem with modern advertising techniques, then you cannot exclude the other insanely exploitative and profitable aspects of the perfume business, as if PdM has crossed the rubicon.

    As scents alone, I think they meet par - Layton is great, Herod is meh, some of their arabic scents are interesting and quite pleasing...and I'll keep going with the rest. OBVIOUSLY they're using youtubers to flog their stuff, but then who is actually buying bottles because of that? I'd be amazed if there are many basenotes user swayed by that sort of marketing.
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  8. #188
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
    i don't think PdM is directly paying these people as such but i do believe they are offering copious free bottles, probably of the entire line to those with enough subs willing to do reviews and lists about them. not to mention taking them out to lunch, helping with travel expenses and so forth. it would never be as blatant as straight up cash, methinks, then at least reviewers can tell themselves they are being polite but remain impartial and are real fans of the house.













    You're definitely right with this.

    The law demands that influencers declare any paid-for #content to be declared an ad.

    There are sneaky ways around this.

    Also, perfume influencers have almost no power. It's not as if they can hold out for lots of money or are fighting off people to try and pay them. Their influence is tenuous and can fall away at any moment, buried by the YT algorithim, or ruined by a fortnight away from uploading. There's really not much money in YT until you really get huge - hence why they're so keen to release their own branded fragrances.

    That all means that a free/borrowed bottle here or there, or a casual lunch, as you say - or, in the case of Jeremy, the use of a proper production team for 2 hours - is all they need to offer, really, to have an influencer say what they want them to.

    But, as I said, it's the way of the world. Most adults can look past this nonsense - I feel sorry for kids who grow up with virtual reality, loads of them take the shiny facade of online personality over genuine human interaction and we're going to see more and more micro influencing in areas like this, where minimal effort from a company can see rewards due to the work of, effectively, brand ambassadors. Old school marketing is on the decline or out of reach for smaller companies.

    Aaaaall that said...are PdM fragrances reallly that bad? I don't see it, personally. If they can be bought around the £1/ml mark, I'm happy to pay it - any more and t's not, in my opinion. I believe it's worth paying £1/ml to smell like a really great combination of Boss Bottled, Eros, Le Male, and Joope Homme, tbh, and that's what Layton is. In the grand scheme of things - if anyone here complaining about PdM owns more than 10 bottles of fragrance - they're not really in a position to judge about too much expenditure or bad value for money, in my opinion.

    Again, I can't believe I'm defending PdM...just more confused about getting upset or annoyed about shilling and using that to knock the fragrances. It is what it is - surely you learn not to blind buy after a while? And surely you can just overlook the use of influencers?
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  9. #189
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    One final note from me...

    I firmly believe Layton is the best release from the house. By far.

    It's the reason I'm sampling their other scents, and I imagine the reason other people do as well.

    I just clicked on Demi Rawling's 'street' video of Kalan...and what does it open up with?

    "I like it better than Layton" - says a woman.

    Look, sex sells, lads. We all know that. Many men spend their whole lives being led around by the allure and promise of what women want on this basis. There are many rather sad and, presumably, desperate men who cling to the likes of Demi and Jeremy who see scent as a compensation that will 'get' them what they seek from women.

    By putting Layton 5th on their 'top 5' lists, by saying they prefer something to Layton - a surprisingly common trend in Demi's videos... - it's all pretty obvious, right to the heart marketing.

    Yep, it's grim. Yes, it's women trying to make men buy things on the basis of sex. But it's easy enough to see, surely? Easy enough to dismiss?

    Like the Simpsons episode where the 'adverts' come alive - you kill them if you stop watching; you kill them if you don't give them attention.
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  10. #190
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    As for Youtubers...(sorry, I'm dominating this thread, I know)...weren't they all invited to some 'thing' in NY the other week? Saw it on fragrantica homepage, didn't read.

    Whoever wasn't invited there is probably a YouTuber who's more trustworthy. I would expect everyone who attended to be bringing out their own fragrances within 18 months. It'll all be part of the same scheme, the same system.
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  11. #191
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beck View Post
    Removing raw material from the ears for the next Parfums de Marly.
    Can't find a clip of it on YouTube, but Father Jack's candles comes to mind...
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  12. #192
    Basenotes Junkie oudaddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by slpfrsly View Post
    As for Youtubers...(sorry, I'm dominating this thread, I know)...weren't they all invited to some 'thing' in NY the other week? Saw it on fragrantica homepage, didn't read.

    Whoever wasn't invited there is probably a YouTuber who's more trustworthy. I would expect everyone who attended to be bringing out their own fragrances within 18 months. It'll all be part of the same scheme, the same system.


    All PdM or Initio

  13. #193

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post


    All PdM or Initio
    Demi is working on her own fragrance - you can guess with which company.

  14. #194

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by slpfrsly View Post
    All that said...yes, clearly, Parfums de Marly's marketing and use of influencers is grubby and disgusting and...everything. But who cares? Do you want to look in to the ethics of the fashion industry? The rampant use of slave labour among the large fashion houses, the destructive use of materials and fuel etc. Literally no one is exempt in this - perfume is a luxury and if you have a problem with modern advertising techniques, then you cannot exclude the other insanely exploitative and profitable aspects of the perfume business, as if PdM has crossed the rubicon.
    Respectfully, this is an apples-oranges comparison.

    I'll presume you mean the expression modern advertising techniques to include YouTube reviewers being on the payroll while simultaneously exuding neutrality. Essentially, this is conceptually equivalent to when a TV commercial comes on with X telling you that Y is the best at Z. It's understood by all the X is being paid by Y to say Z.

    This same model---apparently and ultimately unsurprisingly---has become prevalent on YouTube. However, it would appear that the mainstream perception hasn't completely internalized that the same model is deployed. One can still get the impression that a YouTuber is just an independent guy with a video camera who's passionate about a hobby and articulating his passion during his spare time. This creates a bad faith. And, I believe that's what people resent when they figure it out.
    "I'm sure there are things that you like that someone else here dislikes."
    papillo

  15. #195
    Basenotes Junkie oudaddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by FragFrog View Post
    Demi is working on her own fragrance - you can guess with which company.
    That's all we need, a female version of Jeremy Fragrance.

  16. #196

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    I have never tried them,and I do not know anything about them.
    However if you like them ignore whatever so called hate there is.It is probably a lot of nonsense anyhow. I would say the same thing regarding most other fragrances too.Go with the fragrance you like,who cares what some on the internet say.Personally I either like a fragrance or I do not or somewhere in the middle.I don't care in the least what is fashionable in this internet age of misinformation.

  17. #197

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Her eyes look weird.

  18. #198

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post


    All PdM or Initio
    a few commenters have picked up on the trend, the small minority that aren't drooling over Demi...

    i especially liked this response:

    'I love Demi, but can she make any video without mentioning PDM?!'

    FRAG-MENTAL
    It's pretty hard not to mention PDM to be honest.

    Currently wearing: Aventus by Creed

  19. #199
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    I look at this house as a niche brand that creates copies of already mass produced famous designer frags, perhaps better quality though. They have a few originals of their own, but for the most part, I always thought of them as a clone house with an inflated price tag. If people are willing to buy it then it just increases their popularity.. but personally, after trying a lot of the line, even their originals, I find them all to be just mediocre at best. I think Youtube reviewers are also accountable for a lot of the hype on this brand.
    "I am not trendy" -Thierry Mugler

  20. #200

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Ok,when I first answered this question I did not know this brand was being hyped by Youtube reviewers because I do not watch them. If that is the case that means almost anything hyped by them would be something that I would avoid.

  21. #201
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayberry2 View Post
    Ok,when I first answered this question I did not know this brand was being hyped by Youtube reviewers because I do not watch them.However if that is the case that means almost anything hyped by them would be something that I would avoid.
    Pretty much.
    Try Hamdami. Crazy stuff compared to the rest of their line.
    YouTube reviews with integrity: My "FragReviews" Channel
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  22. #202

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Just a comparison: Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert and Andy Timmons are hyping Ibanez guitars, they endorse them and have even their signature models - does that mean, they are bad guitarists or that Ibanez produces crappy guitars? I don't think so.

    I enjoy some of the PDM fragrances!

    To my nose Herod smells nothing like Tobacco Vanille. Same for Layton and Boss Bottled.
    Yes, I see some similarities between Oajan and Ambre Narguilé and between Godolphin and Tuscan Leather.
    But I don't think there are more PDM fragrances, where this "clone" talk is justified.

  23. #203
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by FragFrog View Post
    Just a comparison: Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert and Andy Timmons are hyping Ibanez guitars, they endorse them and have even their signature models - does that mean, they are bad guitarists or that Ibanez produces crappy guitars? I don't think so.

    I enjoy some of the PDM fragrances!

    To my nose Herod smells nothing like Tobacco Vanille. Same for Layton and Boss Bottled.
    Yes, I see some similarities between Oajan and Ambre Narguilé and between Godolphin and Tuscan Leather.
    But I don't think there are more PDM fragrances, where this "clone" talk is justified.
    Different strokes..
    "I am not trendy" -Thierry Mugler

  24. #204
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Sampled both Oajan and Carlisle for the first time today. Interesting in their own way, but it has convinced me 100% that - although I can see some merit to their oriental style scents, and there's something generally warming and pleasing about their house DNA - Parfums de Marly 'is' Layton. There's really not much to them beyond that/I highly doubt they'll top it.
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  25. #205

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by slpfrsly View Post
    Sampled both Oajan and Carlisle for the first time today. Interesting in their own way, but it has convinced me 100% that - although I can see some merit to their oriental style scents, and there's something generally warming and pleasing about their house DNA - Parfums de Marly 'is' Layton. There's really not much to them beyond that/I highly doubt they'll top it.
    Layton is a great fragrance - but there are guys out there, who strongly dislike it and prefer Herod or Oajan or Godolphin aso.

    I've asked myself too, if there's any chance for PDM to top Layton.
    Question is how that would smell like - Layton is Layton, I don't need a second one. And for me, Layton Exclusif is really worse in comparison to the original. So I'll just stick to Layton and enjoy that one.

    Maybe the new Pegasus Exclusif will be a banger - we'll see!

  26. #206

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    After buying a few aromachemicals for experimentation I can pick them out in large doses in PdM frags.

  27. #207
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by FragFrog View Post
    Layton is a great fragrance - but there are guys out there, who strongly dislike it and prefer Herod or Oajan or Godolphin aso.

    I've asked myself too, if there's any chance for PDM to top Layton.
    Question is how that would smell like - Layton is Layton, I don't need a second one. And for me, Layton Exclusif is really worse in comparison to the original. So I'll just stick to Layton and enjoy that one.

    Maybe the new Pegasus Exclusif will be a banger - we'll see!
    A fair point - I did mean to add the caveat regarding those who don't like it, but tiredness got the better of me. I can see why some wouldn't like Layton, but I wholeheartedly believe it's the best they do. If you can accept the less nuanced aspects of it - the synthetic sweet mush it becomes in the base, the designery elements - then I do wonder what it is that could see someone like something else from PdM, not Layton - everything else I've tried has some sort of 'challenging' element to it, either being too feminine (Oajan, Pegasus), too weird/rank (Layton Exclusif, Hamdani), or just an underwhelming repetition of (vaguely) the same theme (Carlisle). Anyway, yeah - I'm done with PdM, happy to own Layton, and happy to have sampled their other scents.

    Out of interest, what IS their actual history?? Are they French, Arabic...what's the deal?
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  28. #208

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by slpfrsly View Post
    too feminine (Oajan, Pegasus)
    You found Oajan too feminine?? I think that stuff is pretty strongly masculine. Different strokes, indeed. I hate Pegasus too, but not because I found it too feminine. I just did not like that weird chemical almond that dominates the fragrance.

    You didn't mention Herod? Thats one of the most popular releases from the house, and for sure one of my favorites behind only Layton and Oajan.
    Currently wearing: Bois du Portugal by Creed

  29. #209
    Basenotes Junkie slpfrsly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
    You found Oajan too feminine?? I think that stuff is pretty strongly masculine. Different strokes, indeed. I hate Pegasus too, but not because I found it too feminine. I just did not like that weird chemical almond that dominates the fragrance.

    You didn't mention Herod? Thats one of the most popular releases from the house, and for sure one of my favorites behind only Layton and Oajan.
    I 100% found it to be too feminine, but then I'm no fan of gourmands. Oajan reminded me of something from my past - like a mix of older womens' perfume and pot pourri...it remined me of someones' house but I cannot remember. Had the same feeling with Noir Extreme but I know there is a big divide there in terms of judging it. I don't want to box it in, but yeah, I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing Oajan.

    Likewise, Herod. I understand it gets praise in some sense, but I just don't 'get' it as a whole. Smells like make up and cough medicine - a nice enough smell, but I'm not even sure how I'd judge it as a masculine fragrance if I'm honest. Again, I'd say it's more feminine than masculine as well.

    Either way, I can say they all have merit - Hamdani (??) I think reminded me of a niche version of Dunhill Icon Absolute, and I could totally see some people pulling that off nicely. Habdan was the other intriguing one I liked. I just really don't think anything they make comes close to the wearability of Layton, and that's decisive for me. They're all variations around a common theme/idea/DNA, and Layton is the flagship.
    "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously."

  30. #210

    Default Re: Why the hate for PDM?

    I don't really hate them, and I only tested Layton - while I find it pleasant, I think the quality of the ingredients and the blending are not up to the levels of Amouage, Creed, Tom Ford or Xerjoff. For some reason I find Layton to have a similar "vibe" in terms of quality and style to certain fragrances made by Thierry Mugler, like Pure Malt and Pure Havane - I know many people love those frags, I just find them a bit "rough" in terms of ingredients and compositions and a have similar perception with regards to Layton(and I suspect, other PdM offerings, if they share a similar style - but I have to admit that I have to test them before drawing any conclusions)

    as for other "issues"...

    marketing - those who love fragrances for their smell, shouldn't care about that

    they make "clones" - that should not be a problem! lots of perfume houses make "clones" or fragraces that are "inspired" by other fragrances, including some very respected names, like:
    Roja: Danger -> Guerlain Heritage, Vetiver Parfum -> TF Grey Vetiver EDP, Diaghilev -> Guerlain Mitsuoko(?)
    Puredistance M -> Hermes Bel Ami
    Xerjoff Mefisto -> Creed SMW, Fiero -> Dior Eau Sauvage
    Creed Original Santal -> Montblanc Individuel
    Amouage Reflection -> JPG Le Male
    Clive Christian C, Rasasi La Yuqawam, AdP Colonia Leather -> TF Tuscan Leather

    So, no, "cloning" is not an issue. Some clones are better than the originals!




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