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  1. #1
    The_Cologneist's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    According to Jeremy Fragrance, and his latest video (link below with time starting where he says this).. he claims that fragrance companies can market their product as a parfum or EDP even if it has EDT or even less fragrance oils. I've never heard this until now, and would think there are regulations against this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbIV5CwX8Bc&t=1m39s

    So could this be the reason why all the designer EDP marketed fragrances still smell weak and perform like EDT's or even worse?
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Makes a lot of sense.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I always assumed that. I would suppose its true.
    It’s tragic to think that heroic man’s great destiny is to become economic man, that men will be reduced to craven creatures who crawl across the globe competing for money, who spend their nights dreaming up new ways to swindle each other.
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I was just Thinking that today and i strongly believe its true. We all have EDTs that perform way better than a lot of EDPs.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post
    and would think there are regulations against this.
    I don't see why there would be. There's no standard objective way to measure fragrance strength.
    Sometimes one fragrance might simply have less essential oils because those types of essential oils are stronger.

    If a fragrance company wants to sell what is really more of an EDT as an EDP, it will just hurt their brand reputation.

    Anyway, all standard department store fragrances are pretty terrible and don't use naturals, in my opinion, so this probably has little to do with actual cost of production. If it does have anything to do with cost, it's much likely the company wants consumers to have to spray more of it, so they will buy more. The much higher priced tier of fragrances have more of a reputation to keep, and are not going to want to play these games or cut corners.

    I don't know, there might be some mid-tier category (70-130 per bottle) where naturals are actually a very important base in the fragrance and they want to dilute it down to reduce costs. Especially some of the very artistic fragrances where the perfumer was very particular about the smells and only wanted to use the very best luxury grades of naturals.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    It's absolutely true. There's no regulation.

  7. #7
    Dependent Danny Mitchell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I believe there was a topic about this a few months back and the general consensus around here was that the designations don't represent a certain concentration or strength.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Perfume concentrations are a matter of marketing. Yup.
    FYI: I spray all fragrances on clothing, never on skin.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I thought everyone knew all this.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post
    I thought everyone knew all this.
    +1

    Yes, not exactly news to fragheads. There’s always been some overlap between the % concentration for EDT and EDP, and between EDP and Extrait (parfum). And whoever believe EDPs should always perform better or last longer than EDTs have probably bought into a myth.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foecartel View Post
    We all have EDTs that perform way better than a lot of EDPs.
    True.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cologneist View Post
    According to Jeremy Fragrance, and his latest video (link below with time starting where he says this).. he claims that fragrance companies can market their product as a parfum or EDP even if it has EDT or even less fragrance oils. I've never heard this until now, and would think there are regulations against this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbIV5CwX8Bc&t=1m39s

    So could this be the reason why all the designer EDP marketed fragrances still smell weak and perform like EDT's or even worse?
    I believe this is true to an extent, as we have all been trained to accept that colognes are weakest, toilettes have more projection but less life, eau de parfums more longevity but quieter performance, and "parfums" being heavier/richer. Only once you move into extrait de parfum or attars do expectations of performance per ml really go up, and that's because they sell you like 30ml for $300+ (even in designers).

    The concentration model was probably followed more closely before aromchemicals became so easy to produce. A pindrop of norlimbanol can ruin perfume in the same way the wrong kind of hot sauce can kill a pot of chilli lol
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks Otterlake View Post
    It's absolutely true. There's no regulation.
    This
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  14. #14
    The_Cologneist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Interesting. Kind of fraudulent really.

    Heh.. I wonder which companies actually sell what they say they're selling? So I guess most of these EDP's and Parfum's at least in the designer fragrance world - were really just a marketing scam and a fad, like the oud fad, and the blue frag fad, which unfortunately is still going.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post
    I thought everyone knew all this.
    Agree.

    Today's edt, edp etc. are just marketing.
    Watch my recent video review of
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post
    I thought everyone knew all this.
    Agree.

    Today's edt, edp etc. are just marketing.
    Watch my recent video review of
    Guerlain L'Homme Ideal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-PW_V1G0aw

  17. #17
    Basenotes Institution L'Homme Blanc Individuel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post
    I thought everyone knew all this.
    +1

    I always assume any name containing words like Cologne, Perfume, Parfum, etc. is marketing, NOT reliable perfumery terminology.

    I mean, really... come on now. It's not as if every nation on Earth has laws regarding what a parfum is. And you've got silly stuff like Atelier Cologne with their "Cologne Absolu" nonsense. You've also got insanely harsh chemicals like Norlimbanol that will make any fragrance seem nuclear if they use more than 0.1% of the stuff in the composition after dilution.

    Many modern chemicals are so strong that terminology for dilution percentages starts to become useless. And it gets further complicated by olfactory fatigue. I'll give you a perfect example: John Varvatos, Artisan Pure. It popped up in the forum a few days ago, so I dug out my sample & sprayed the back of my hand. I'm pretty sure it's just an EDT, but I got 18 frigging hours from that spray - I couldn't even wash it off, and believe me, I tried! But I guarantee most people who wear Artisan Pure think it has poor performance. Why? It's because so much of the scent is harshly chemical, and chemicals are easier for your brain to ignore than natural ingredients (as a general rule). Why? Because chemicals have no variances. If you make water using just chemicals, you get 2 parts hydrogen, 1 part oxygen. It's consistent. If you scoop up a cupful of water from any natural source (a lake, river, stream, or even rainwater) and do a chemical analysis of it, you'll find all sorts of other things in there too. How about another example: Think about any crop. I'm sipping a glass of wine as I type this. Wine is never consistent from year to year, because the grapes used to make wine are only as consistent as the environment they're grown in. Some years, they get more sun, or more rain, or more cold weather, a hotter summer or a colder spring, an early fall, etc etc etc.

    Anyway... in the end, the only answer is this: Your nose knows what smells good to you, and that's the only thing you can trust. Labels lie. Marketers manipulate. Hypesters act like children chasing each new thing. It's all nonsense. Your nose knows what smells good to you, and that's the only thing you can trust.
    Current Favorites (in no particular order)
    Castile
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    1725 Casanova
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    Prada L'Homme
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Concentration has never guaranteed a certain level of performance anyway, so to expect something to "perform like an EDP" is bollocks.
    Currently wearing: Ambre Éternel by Guerlain

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultravisitor View Post
    I thought everyone knew all this.
    +1 Read this over a year ago as well and the strength of some modern edp's confirm this statement for me.
    My Top '11' of main current rotation in no particular order:

    - Paco Rabanne: Pour Homme (vtg)
    - Antaeus (vtg)
    - Azzaro: Pour Homme (vtg)
    - TF: Ombré Leather
    - Cartier: Santos edt (vtg)
    - Al Haramain: Excellent
    - SA: Shaghaf Oud Abyad
    - SA: Al Basel
    - D&G: Pour Homme (vtg)
    - Mancera: Red Tobacco
    - Mancera: Aoud Vanille

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I would assume it's true and well known like everyone is saying. Most designer EDPs may seem a little richer but to me they are also weaker. It's almost like EDP and Parfum are designated by designers as "luxury" version vs strength.
    Last edited by ToughCool; 21st November 2019 at 03:56 PM.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I'm no language expert but "eau de parfum" literally means "water of perfume" or "perfumed water".
    Any assumption or expectation beyond that is subjectively all in ones head.

  22. #22
    Basenotes Junkie oudaddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    True but they cannot lie about the alcohol percentage.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    With so many legal regulations imposed to the fragrance industry, would have assumed that this aspect is better kept under control and one of the few positive, useful sides of this ever increasing control-namely that concentrations have to be kept up, always following certain prescribed, regulated amounts of fragrance oils.

    On the other hand, even aside of this claim and thus perhaps a bit off-topic, also admit to have personally experienced- possibly being not the only one here on BN- fragrances in EDT or higher strength EDC/Eau Fraiche etc. concentration fragrances with performances comparable, fairly similar to an EDP.
    Currently wearing: Baobab by Tesori d'Oriente

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    I have tried a tester in perfume store and really liked smell, which lasted all day. Then I bought a boxed one of the same perfume and it hardly lasts for 30min. Is it possible that testers are stronger ? They are more concentrated or something? Does anyone experienced it ?

  25. #25
    Dependent Danny Mitchell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post
    True but they cannot lie about the alcohol percentage.
    True. I'm not sure if or how they regulate the terminology. Like oudaddict said, if you want to keep them honest, just look at the percentage and the ingredients.
    "Ducks eat for free at Subway."
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  26. #26

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Just to add to this, a lot of people aren't aware what "performance" means with regards to the different concentrations, assuming that a higher concentration of perfume (e.g. edp) will make for better "performance." It depends. Many edp actually wear closer to the skin and don't project as much, but last longer - extrait and parfum versions even more so. It really comes down to what specific criteria individuals are looking for. That's not to say that, as mentioned above, there isn't an overlap between categories (as there's a range), or that edt fragrances can't last longer because some certainly do.
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post
    True but they cannot lie about the alcohol percentage.
    This! Read the whole thread just to see if someone mentioned it.
    But I wonder if they add something else to dilute fragrance...
    Let's say there's 5% of oils, but it says 80% alcohol

  28. #28

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    There’s probably some truth to the OPs statement but

    1. Take a designer EDT made in the 1980s and it will almost always smell stronger than current EDP.

    2. Not all materials are equally strong. A fragrance at 20% concentration of real oud compared to a fragrance at 20% orange blossom won’t be a fair comparison although they are exactly the same concentration %.

    3. If you regulate it you will end up with a situation where a perfectly balanced creation will be reworked to up or drop to get into a concentration bracket.

    If used properly by a maker you should get an idea of how a fragrance will perform based on if it states EdC, EdT, Extrait for a single house.
    Remember though we are talking about artistry within an industry so creatives are usually in contention with purse-string holders.
    A few favourites

    Bois du Portugal by Creed
    Aventus by Creed
    Jubilation Man by Amouage
    Mousse Illuminee by Rogue Perfumery
    Incident Diplomatique by Jovoy
    Patchouli Nobile by Nobile 1942
    Pour Monsieur EdT by Chanel
    Eau Sauvage (vtg) by Christian Dior
    Eucris EdP by GF Trumper
    Polo (Cosmair) by Ralph Lauren
    Currently wearing: Worth pour Homme by Worth

  29. #29

    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Mitchell View Post
    True. I'm not sure if or how they regulate the terminology. Like oudaddict said, if you want to keep them honest, just look at the percentage and the ingredients.
    Not sure I believe that to be true...

    Boss Bottled EDT - 79% written on back of box (meaning alcohol content)
    Boss Bottled EDP - 80%

    Meaning the EDP has more alcohol and less fragrance content by volume.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Fragrance Industry Secret Revealed.. is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post
    True but they cannot lie about the alcohol percentage.
    This, to some degree. Although many don't actually provide this %. ALD, Tauer, and Zoologist for example. No idea the various regulations on this.
    But those that provide the alcohol % don't give the Aqua percentage so they can still obfuscate within the margins.
    I am wearing Musc Ravageur today. 79% alcohol. 21 % room to play.
    Personal evaluation based on the overall package is what matters. An EdT can be great, some things need to be high percentage extrait to deliver.
    I appreciate the houses that give clear statements on their products but they are few and far between.
    The industry is full of weasel words and marketing schemes bordering on the absurd.




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