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  1. #1
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    Default Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I’ve been really enjoying vintage and artisanal fragrances. I do love some designers but I can’t really see the new ones have the same intensity and strength with oak moss and animalics.

    Am I ruined now? I don’t seem to be finding a lot of the IFRA-complaint scents all that great.
    FYI: I spray all fragrances on clothing, never on skin.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by thrilledchilled View Post
    I don’t seem to be finding a lot of the IFRA-complaint scents all that great.
    It's so hard to keep up with the IFRA upheaval. It's a mess. If the dust ever settles, maybe IFRA-compliance and good perfume could be reunited.

    There can be some decent IFRA-compliant perfumes - I can live on current Dior Homme and Egoiste, but I find a deep dive into perfume sampling makes current IFRA-compliant perfumes pale by comparison to vintage and Artisan's ignoring IFRA guidance.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bavard View Post
    It's so hard to keep up with the IFRA upheaval. It's a mess. If the dust ever settles, maybe IFRA-compliance and good perfume could be reunited.

    There can be some decent IFRA-compliant perfumes - I can live on current Dior Homme and Egoiste, but I find a deep dive into perfume sampling makes current IFRA-compliant perfumes pale by comparison to vintage and Artisan's ignoring IFRA guidance.
    That’s what I am finding too. It just isn’t worth buying “compliant” fragrances. They are thin and pale to me.
    FYI: I spray all fragrances on clothing, never on skin.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Thin and pale seem to be in, the old stuff is for us who actually wear for ourselves

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Thin and pale is for nordic supermodels, not fragrances.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Vintage does to a large degree, but artisanal compositions (even those that are non-IFRA compliant) are very much a mixed bag. Having good quality/non-IFRA compliant ingredients isn’t worth much if the usually “self-taught” perfumer hasn’t the skill to make something out of them. Many of the names I see idolized here I have found unimpressive.

    That said, there have been a couple really nice artisanal surprises on the positive side too... Finding those hidden gems make smelling all the other artisanal misses still worthwhile.
    Current Top Ten:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage (Giorgio Beverly Hills) - tie
    2) Giorgio V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills) - tie
    4) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    5)
    Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz)
    6) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    7) Javanese Patchouli (Zegna) - tie
    7) Monsieur de Givenchy vintage (Givenchy) - tie
    7) Coeur de Vetiver Sacré (L'Artisan) - tie
    7) Polo vintage (Ralph Lauren) - tie
    Currently wearing: Cuiron by Helmut Lang

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I think "thin and pale" fragrances exist not because of IFRA, but because the mass market supports them. Tauer, Rania J, Francesca Bianchi, and Bogue Profumo are a few examples of IFRA compliant houses whose output is certainly not thin and pale. So, for example, even if oakmoss restrictions were completely lifted, designers wouldn't use it like they did in the 70's and 80's. Why? Because the public wouldn't go for it.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bavard View Post
    It's so hard to keep up with the IFRA upheaval. It's a mess. If the dust ever settles, maybe IFRA-compliance and good perfume could be reunited.

    There can be some decent IFRA-compliant perfumes - I can live on current Dior Homme and Egoiste, but I find a deep dive into perfume sampling makes current IFRA-compliant perfumes pale by comparison to vintage and Artisan's ignoring IFRA guidance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hound View Post
    I think "thin and pale" fragrances exist not because of IFRA, but because the mass market supports them. Tauer, Rania J, Francesca Bianchi, and Bogue Profumo are a few examples of IFRA compliant houses whose output is certainly not thin and pale. So, for example, even if oakmoss restrictions were completely lifted, designers wouldn't use it like they did in the 70's and 80's. Why? Because the public wouldn't go for it.
    Truth in both of these statements.

    My personal take is the mainstream perfume aesthetic is one of "lowest common denominator" among male-market fragrances, while female and unisex ones enjoy a much wider palette of options (although conventions still existed) regardless of decade or regulation. The difference between what was the lowest common denominator in say, the 70's, versus the 2010's is the difference in what accords were seen as masculine. Seeing how thin and pale or mega-sweet passes as masculinity is less indicative of regulation and more indicative of cultural shifts, really.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I thoroughly relish many of my vintage fragrances that I have acquired over decades, but equally enjoy new stuff that regularly appears on the market, so I would say vintage has not personally spoiled me.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I count myself spoiled.
    Scarcity is an illusion. Unlearn it.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I was just talking about this with Bavard - wearing deep, rich, beautiful vintage perfumes makes you realize that the inflated prices you pay for vintage stuff is definitely worth it when you compare it to the super high prices of a lot of the niche fragrances that are out there.

    That being said, I still enjoy wearing some current formula, non "artisinal" scents, so I would say no.
    Last edited by Diamond Joe; 24th November 2019 at 04:43 AM.
    Currently wearing: Herod by Parfums de Marly

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I’m curious as to what designers are your current faves?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Not in my case. It seems I can switch modes and appreciate the various styles. Same with music. But finding the real gems are equally hard in most cases.
    “...too many among us die at thirty and are buried at eighty.” - Robin Sharma

  14. #14

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by purecaramel View Post
    I count myself spoiled.
    Yeah. When I boil it down, it’s hard not to say, basically, “yes”.

    I still enjoy some modern designers, but I’m a lot more selective and intentional about what I’m seeking from designers than I would be would be without vintage and artisan context.
    "It's not what you look like when you're doing what you're doing; it's what you're doing when you're doing what you look like you're doing."

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by purecaramel View Post
    I count myself spoiled.
    Your friends spoil you more than your fragrances do, and it's intentional. <3
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I feel that vintage fragrances do bring more satisfaction and fulfillment.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    While happening to enjoy many vintage and artisan scents, also considering them as benchmarks for both feeling spoiled and setting high standards beyond IFRA, with little or no interference on the fragrance quality-would not exclude some designer scents as good examples as to how feel spoiled by their quality and complexity.

    Perhaps more or less unexpected, did notice that certain designer brands like Lalique, very affordable and in their non vintage output, do have a solid selection of scents that can almost spoil or at least pleasantly surprise one, all things considered, with comparatively high standards - though admittedly less on the animalic and oakmoss notes.
    For an even lower price but not necessarily quality, current rather than just vintage scents by Bogart and Lapidus might spoil one more and underwhelm one less within and slightly above/beyond the regulations that do limit most designers and even some designer exclusive/niche offerings to be more daring, go further and simply provide more.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Do vintage and niche spoil us?
    Pretty much, yes. I'm with you.
    I don't want to. I don't have to. You can't make me. I'M RETIRED.

  19. #19
    Missing Oakmoss

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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Yes, absolutely. A well-preserved vintage is a revelation. Of modern houses, I think Papillon come very close to offering the richness and depth characteristic of vintage perfumes.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    This is my feeling as well. Lots of dross, but some very beautiful things still being made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Not in my case. It seems I can switch modes and appreciate the various styles. Same with music. But finding the real gems are equally hard in most cases.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I enjoy vintage fragrances, I enjoy artisanal fragrances, and I enjoy plenty of IFRA-compliant releases.

    When it comes to IFRA-compliant compositions, it does help if the fragrance in question is a distinctly contemporary composition in aesthetic and style so that there's not much direct comparison to the releases of decades past.

    (There are always exceptions, though. I think the post-2010 Fougère Royale is a gold standard entry in the traditional fougere category, past or present.)

    The big issue with the designer segment isn't IFRA, it's just creative apathy paired with excessive cost-cutting.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    No experience with artisan/niche , but have to agree vintage is a treat.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Not spoiled. I accept (after a long internal struggle) that the perfume industry today is a totally different one from what it was in the past century.

    To allay despair my now adopted philosophy is to embrace the best of the new computerized perfumes, in a price range I can afford. That eliminates much of the niche market where prices are in my view not often justifiable. As a result my “niche” is mostly the best (largely a matter of personal taste) among the designer offerings.
    ​"It was foolish of her not to have bought a larger bottle."

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    Currently wearing: Chance Parfum by Chanel

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    For vintage scents, there's a much higher affinity to secure backups. I speak from personal experience.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by N.CAL Fragrance Reviewer View Post
    For vintage scents, there's a much higher affinity to secure backups. I speak from personal experience.
    I’m trying to get your meaning. You mean you are more likely to want to get backups on vintage? Or it’s easier to get them? Or harder? Or more necessary?
    FYI: I spray all fragrances on clothing, never on skin.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bavard View Post
    It's so hard to keep up with the IFRA upheaval. It's a mess. If the dust ever settles, maybe IFRA-compliance and good perfume could be reunited.
    Unfortunately I doubt that we've even begun to see the dust settle. As I understand, IFRA regulations were exclusively based on findings relating to possible allergic responses. But there was a thread here several months ago ( that seemed to have quickly made it's way down-page ) which referenced a fairly extensive article that looked into the potentially cancer causing effects of numerous common constituents of perfume. Effects that seemed fairly well established, and didn't seem particularly open to argument. Once the health police begin to focus on that angle of perfume, the future is sure to appear confused and uncertain yet again.
    Currently wearing: Daim Blond by Serge Lutens

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    The purpose of IFRA is to sell synthetic ACs made by the large players. There is no other purpose. As always it is in the guise of “protecting the consumer.”

    I think anyone should be able to sell anything they want as long as you have disclosure. I have no issues buying stuff that isn’t healthy for me, if that is what I want to get and it’s with clear labeling.

    Anyway, there are some artisans especially out of the USA who aren’t IFRA compliant apparently. And maybe out of Asia and the Middle East.

    I hope they continue doing what they are doing. The bigger someone gets the more it becomes essential to comply with EU regulations though.
    FYI: I spray all fragrances on clothing, never on skin.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by thrilledchilled View Post
    The purpose of IFRA is to sell synthetic ACs made by the large players.
    This is my take also, especially as the main members of IFRA are the producers of proprietary aromachemicals.

    https://ifrafragrance.org/about-ifra/membership
    ​"It was foolish of her not to have bought a larger bottle."

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    Currently wearing: Chance Parfum by Chanel

  29. #29

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    I find there's a place for both - I wouldn't give up most of my vintage scents, but im not always in the mood for that, and I crave something sleek and modern.

    As far as artisanal goes - there are some great works, and there are some terrible. In the world of pedigree animals, you'd call these artisans "backyard breeders." Their heart is (often) there, but you can tell what's being made in someone's basement much of the time. There's a place for everyone.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Does vintage and artisanal spoil you?

    Quote Originally Posted by thrilledchilled View Post
    The purpose of IFRA is to sell synthetic ACs made by the large players.
    The large players certainly have a great influence in IFRA, but this is not really accurate.

    IFRA isn't setting the regulations themselves. IFRA is more in the job of consolidating all the individual nations' restrictions into a single international standard.




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