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  1. #1

    Default Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    Is there an alternative to ethanol that you can recommend? I am looking for an alternative solvent that evaporates or at least allows decent projection of the fragrance. I am not expecting it to be equal in this regard to ethanol. DPG does not appear to be sprayable on its own. IPM is sprayable but the projection I get from it is not satisfactory, although maybe this is partially due to the fact that my fragrance formula is lacking when it comes to projection. DPGME, allegedly, has strange odours. I do not know if coconut alkanes would be ok for use, though I suspect that it may aid in dermal penetration.
    Currently wearing: Jungle pour Homme by Kenzo

  2. #2

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    So far as I know ethanol is the ONLY satisfactory-to-everyone highly volatile carrier.

    Non-volatile/low volatile formulations are interesting and can be beautiful but will always be different from ethanol formulations.

    I have no expertise in spraying non-volatile formulations (I use lipophilic formulas in cosmetics and some personal formulas only) and so don't have a good suggestion, but there have been many on the forum over time. Most commonly Dowanol though I think, could be wrong, which you have already considered (DPGME.)

    Personally I think hemisqualane and Sensolv (isoamyl laurate) to be very nice light solvents, in terms of skin feel and absorption, but have not sprayed them. Hemisqualane may be the less viscous of the two. Myself I do not care for IPM as well as those on the skin. Also, if applying a substantial amount to a given small area, instead of spreading widely very lightly and typically also mixed with other oily materials as with many topical products, it can be temporarily damaging to skin, via drawing endogenous lipids out from the stratum corneum, and does enhance penetration which here could be undesirable.

    Sensolv is more polar than hemisqualane while still being very lipophilic, and so it's possible some materials might dissolve fully into Sensolv but not sufficiently into hemisqualane. I don't know if for most perfume formulas that's a practical issue or just a theoretical one. The solubilizing properties of Sensolv are similar to those of IPM, though for some materials maybe a little less.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    I do not understand why spraying a substantial amount of IPM-based perfume to a small area of skin would be damaging to the skin any more than spraying a substantial amount of ethanol-based perfume to the skin. I have trialled coconut alkanes and they evaporate insanely fast but I am yet to try mixing a perfume concentrate with it. I also suspect that using coconut alkanes or isoamyl laurate would not be the cheapest solvent to use, though not the most expensive either.I may give DPGME a try. I wonder if it is safe for prolonged contact on skin. I was also thinking about spraying alternative alcohols such as the one you mentioned; propanol, but that comes with its own issues I would have to think about. Toxicity via inhalation, price, flammability, solvent properties, etc. I have actually heavily considered simply using water paired with a powerful solubilising system despite being aware that the solubiliser itself could possibly depress the projection of the fragrance concentrate, as well as limiting the percentage of the fragrance concentrate due to solubilisation challenges and phase separation (and even running the expensive preservative efficacy tests). I do wonder what a sensible fragrance percentage for a water-based perfume would be. I wonder if Maison Sybarite's perfume line are as 'light' as CB I hate perfume's water-based perfume line have been described (to the exclusion of one of his fragrances, ''Burning Leaves'' if I remember correctly).

    When you say that you do not care for IPM on the skin, what do you mean? I struggled to understand. If IPM would be a serious consideration of mine, I would not think too much about using isoamyl laurate due to price differences at small quantities. Isoamyl laurate also does have its distinctive and light odour. Diisopropyl adipate would be another similar alternative, though I imagine it probably is not diffusive just like IPM. I feel it could really benefit if I studied the difference between vapour pressure and evaporation rate.
    Currently wearing: Jungle pour Homme by Kenzo

  4. #4

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    IPM doesn't evaporate and if you have a substantial layer remaining on the skin, it draws out skin lipids, these come up from the skin and go into the IPM. This damages the integrity of the stratum corneum. It's relevant only if the layer is substantial. A spray might be broad enough to not do it, depending on this distance one sprays from and the sprayer. I can certainly think of one marketed spray product using IPM as a carrier that applied a quite substantial amount per area.

    This damaged integrity results in higher transdermal delivery. In fact IPM is sometimes chosen for that purpose.

    It is not a giant deal but a fact about IPM regardless that causes me to not favor IPM as a carrier where a person might apply the material substantially to an area as opposed to dispersed very thinly.

    To evaluate evaporation of coconut alkanes, try applying them to a surface such as glass, rather than the skin. You may be confounding absorption with evaporation.

    On why I don't like the feel of IPM on the skin, people's perceptions may differ. I dislike the sensorial properties of applying it versus the ones that I said. I will believe if you look into what various cosmetics formulators will say about it, you will find frequent high praise for the materials I mentioned in that regard, and not so much for IPM. I can't really tell you why I have that perception, unlike perfuming I have never concerned myself with the why's of sensorial perception on the skin.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    Many thanks for your clarifying response. I am very intrigued by this perception of IPM by formulators. I guess I will look into alternative esters such as coco-caprylate/caprate and isoamyl laurate as my solvent base. Also, the coconut alkanes, I had spilled on thick brown parcel wrapping paper, and it had totally evaporated from them (the greasy wet look disappeared). Oh! and maybe I could try dioctyl adipate too. I don't know if this would be a good idea, but I could try it.
    Currently wearing: Jungle pour Homme by Kenzo

  6. #6

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by LuisJavier View Post
    Is there an alternative to ethanol that you can recommend?
    Do you know how many of these threads there are?

    There are probably many people who are not going to respond because it's been discussed so many times before.

    There are threads you can go search for. More than a handful that are not even two months old.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    Coco caprylate also has IMO very nice properties. Worth trying.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    I think I've read every single one of those threads. Every SINGLE one of them. I was not satisfied. Interestingly enough, Bill Roberts has given me responses I have not come across in those other threads.
    Currently wearing: Jungle pour Homme by Kenzo

  9. #9

    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by parker25mv View Post
    Do you know how many of these threads there are?

    There are probably many people who are not going to respond because it's been discussed so many times before.

    There are threads you can go search for. More than a handful that are not even two months old.
    I think I've read every single one of those threads. Every SINGLE one of them. I was not satisfied. Interestingly enough, Bill Roberts has given me responses I have not come across in those other threads.
    Currently wearing: Jungle pour Homme by Kenzo

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Perfume spray: Ethanol Alternative

    I can only recommend that you undertake your own research. I've not responded, because a client is paying me to develop this for them.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.




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