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  1. #91
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by PEARL View Post
    I can understand why you've made this interpretation and it's because those who practice the uncouth habit of mentioning they are Muslim, or talking about Islam, Sunnah, and the Hadith of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم (peace and blessings be upon him) in their mercantile endeavors to sell agarwood and agarwood related product don't correct that assumption or interpretation. There is also a distinction between Arabic culture and the religion of Islam. In Arabic cultural history there are prominent figures such as Jabbir Ibn Hayyan and Al-Kindi who were Muslims that had interest in perfume, furthered innovation in fragrant material distillation, and made recipes, yet in the religion of Islam it is not obligatory for a Muslim to use such products.

    Concerning spirituality and Muslims using perfume as a tool to connect with Allah, nope. I've seen some write that in their spiritual pursuits such as meditation, yoga, etc. that they use perfumes or oils to help ground or connect them somehow; not so in Islam and the uncouth don't correct that notion when it concerns Islam. In Islam it's your behavior, remembrance of Allah, and most importantly prayer that brings closeness to Allah and a way of communicating and purifying the heart, and anything from concentrating on the rumbling of your hungry belly, the design on your clothing, or the smell of perfume that distracts from remembrance of Allah or prayer is forbidden.

    Concerning alcohol in perfume for Muslims, there is Islamic law Sharia and then there is Islamic jurisprudence, which is simply the interpretation when the law is not specific to a circumstance. It is forbidden to use alcohol as an intoxicant, however the leading schools of Islamic jurisprudence say it's A-OK for a Muslim to wear perfumes that contain alcohol. Concerning synthetics in perfume and Islam, I've not heard or read anything about that and the large Arabic companies such as Arabian Oud and Abdul Samad Al-Qurashi's catalogs are dominated by CPOs and spray perfumes that use synthetics and denatured alcohol rather than pure essential oils, extracts, concretes, etc.

    The philosophy of the superiority of naturals versus synthetics is not universal and can be accepted or rejected, from an objective perspective the consumer user may not care and subjectively may prefer the composition that uses synthetics. The rant is hypocritical in that it seeks to find fault in another's marketing campaign, during it's own marketing campaign. Hypocritical because of being historically vocal in criticizing others under the facade of "art perpetuating art", but then behaving as if a review or opinion must be contrived when negative criticism is about them, or play the victim as if it was a personal affront or attack that makes the opinion invalid.
    Thank you for taking the time to post this. Well articulated! Especially concerning the widespread confusion between Arabian culture and Islamic practices, even among Muslims. Often in their zeal, believers inadvertently go down the puritanical path and chastise/condemn anyone else whom they perceive to be taking certain liberties...
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  2. #92
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    I really don't understand when perfumers get upset if their work is criticised, I'm even more baffled as to why a reviewer would be cautious about hurting the feelings of the perfumer by saying something negative about their work. Any artist or manufacturer that creates a product should realise that not everyone will like it and should expect a certain amount of criticism. It just highlights to me how inflated some of their egos are that they expect everyone to love and say positive things about everything they create. Welcome to the real world.
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  3. #93
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    BTW, the distillation of alcohol as a pure compound was discovered by Muslim scientists such as Al-Kindi and Abu Bakr al-Razi in the 8th and 9th centuries CE. The word ‘alcohol’ even comes from the Arabic word ‘Al-Kuhl’ or more likely ‘Al-Ghawl’.
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  4. #94

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post
    I'm even more baffled as to why a reviewer would be cautious about hurting the feelings of the perfumer by saying something negative about their work.
    probably because it means no more freebies coming their way.
    The humility of the Messenger of Allah

    Al-Baghawi narrated in Sharh as-Sunnah (5/442) that ‘Aa’ishah said: I said: O Messenger of Allah, may Allah cause me to be sacrificed for you, eat reclining for it will be easier for you. He tilted his head until his forehead nearly touched the ground and said: “No; rather I shall eat as a slave eats and I shall sit as a slave sits.”

    Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in as-Saheehah, 544.
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  5. #95

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisieux View Post
    I noticed his Crime & Punishment just today. The naming was a surprise (based on his usual names). Anyway, NOT to speak badly of him at all but as a customer of his who owns Oud Yusuf and Aroha Kush (as well as two of his perfume oils), the question has popped into my mind if he 'spikes' his oud with aroma chemicals. Again, NOT to accuse him at all but my nose tells me the fruit notes seem a little too tenacious and a little too 'true'. I want to try more oud's from him but I'm feeling apprehensive to buy from him again because of my uncertainty about his oud. I don't know who 'Adam' and JK are but I'm looking for other oud dealers just to see what else is out there. I feel bad writing in this public forum my questions about the purity of his oud because he seems like such an awesome guy in his YT videos and on the youtube channel called FragranceView etc... but I want to see if anyone else has the same questions. Don't get me wrong he seems like the type of person I'd love to know personally; no disrespect intended for him by my above concerns.
    same thoughts totally

  6. #96

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post
    I really don't understand when perfumers get upset if their work is criticised, I'm even more baffled as to why a reviewer would be cautious about hurting the feelings of the perfumer by saying something negative about their work. Any artist or manufacturer that creates a product should realise that not everyone will like it and should expect a certain amount of criticism. It just highlights to me how inflated some of their egos are that they expect everyone to love and say positive things about everything they create. Welcome to the real world.
    I didn't really interpret Ensar's write-up to mean that he couldn't take criticism ... but that in this case, he was convinced that the criticism had the ulterior motive of downplaying his fragrance in order to promote the sale of the reviewer's own collaboration fragrance. I think that was his point, not that it simply upset him that somebody didn't like his perfume.

    But in any case, Ensar's write-up certainly got a lot of people talking about this release, for better or for worse ... so I think the marketing did its intended job.

  7. #97

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    So Areej Le Dore needs collaborations to sell ? In that case the 101 page discussion on the ALD on Basenotes must be a MASS CONSPIRACY against Ensar and the likes. Lol.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by exoticscents View Post
    So Areej Le Dore needs collaborations to sell ? In that case the 101 page discussion on the ALD on Basenotes must be a MASS CONSPIRACY against Ensar and the likes. Lol.
    You’ve been away from BN for too long, buddy. It’s 176 pages and counting... Watch out for the spike when ALD attars ‘drop’ next month!
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  9. #99
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by naylor View Post
    I didn't really interpret Ensar's write-up to mean that he couldn't take criticism ... but that in this case, he was convinced that the criticism had the ulterior motive of downplaying his fragrance in order to promote the sale of the reviewer's own collaboration fragrance. I think that was his point, not that it simply upset him that somebody didn't like his perfume.

    But in any case, Ensar's write-up certainly got a lot of people talking about this release, for better or for worse ... so I think the marketing did its intended job.
    The intended job ought to be getting people to talk about the fragrances - for the better with criticism of the products as appropriate. I think he missed, the focus has come far away from his scents to secondary issues. While there has been much good discussion in this thread it is not the type he needs to seek. Many of us have limited resources and may choose to direct those resources to artisans who are more likeable for lack of a better term. No problem dropping coin for ALD, no problem for the Bortnikoffs that meet my needs. I would like Crime and Punishment but the brand is tarnished so I am struggling with the decision to buy. My guess is I am not alone with such issues. Get rid of his side issues and sales come more easily.

  10. #100

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by PEARL View Post
    I can understand why you've made this interpretation and it's because those who practice the uncouth habit of mentioning they are Muslim, or talking about Islam, Sunnah, and the Hadith of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم (peace and blessings be upon him) in their mercantile endeavors to sell agarwood and agarwood related product don't correct that assumption or interpretation. There is also a distinction between Arabic culture and the religion of Islam. In Arabic cultural history there are prominent figures such as Jabbir Ibn Hayyan and Al-Kindi who were Muslims that had interest in perfume, furthered innovation in fragrant material distillation, and made recipes, yet in the religion of Islam it is not obligatory for a Muslim to use such products.

    Concerning spirituality and Muslims using perfume as a tool to connect with Allah, nope. I've seen some write that in their spiritual pursuits such as meditation, yoga, etc. that they use perfumes or oils to help ground or connect them somehow; not so in Islam and the uncouth don't correct that notion when it concerns Islam. In Islam it's your behavior, remembrance of Allah, and most importantly prayer that brings closeness to Allah and a way of communicating and purifying the heart, and anything from concentrating on the rumbling of your hungry belly, the design on your clothing, or the smell of perfume that distracts from remembrance of Allah or prayer is forbidden.

    Concerning alcohol in perfume for Muslims, there is Islamic law Sharia and then there is Islamic jurisprudence, which is simply the interpretation when the law is not specific to a circumstance. It is forbidden to use alcohol as an intoxicant, however the leading schools of Islamic jurisprudence say it's A-OK for a Muslim to wear perfumes that contain alcohol. Concerning synthetics in perfume and Islam, I've not heard or read anything about that and the large Arabic companies such as Arabian Oud and Abdul Samad Al-Qurashi's catalogs are dominated by CPOs and spray perfumes that use synthetics and denatured alcohol rather than pure essential oils, extracts, concretes, etc.

    The philosophy of the superiority of naturals versus synthetics is not universal and can be accepted or rejected, from an objective perspective the consumer user may not care and subjectively may prefer the composition that uses synthetics. The rant is hypocritical in that it seeks to find fault in another's marketing campaign, during it's own marketing campaign. Hypocritical because of being historically vocal in criticizing others under the facade of "art perpetuating art", but then behaving as if a review or opinion must be contrived when negative criticism is about them, or play the victim as if it was a personal affront or attack that makes the opinion invalid.
    Thank you for writing this! Beautifully said and I appreciate you taking the time to help inform a stranger such as myself to become more culturally conscious.

  11. #101

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by naylor View Post
    I didn't really interpret Ensar's write-up to mean that he couldn't take criticism ... but that in this case, he was convinced that the criticism had the ulterior motive of downplaying his fragrance in order to promote the sale of the reviewer's own collaboration fragrance. I think that was his point, not that it simply upset him that somebody didn't like his perfume.

    But in any case, Ensar's write-up certainly got a lot of people talking about this release, for better or for worse ... so I think the marketing did its intended job.
    I agree as well. I never got and do not have the impression that he can’t handle criticism. After re-reading his post it really doesn’t seem to be the monstrosity of arrogance, egoism, and whining thats being interpreted here on this thread. But I can see why all parties involved are passionate about who they support and why.

  12. #102
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyriddle View Post
    it really doesn’t seem to be the monstrosity of arrogance, egoism, and whining thats being interpreted here on this thread.
    he edit at least 3 times his original writing.
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  13. #103
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Guys, I am sorry but this is getting out of hand. I have deleted the video that was posted and all comments regarding it. Take the bickering to Youtube.
    Last edited by furrypine; 20th February 2020 at 04:22 AM.
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  14. #104
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Thank you furrypine.
    Last edited by PEARL; 19th February 2020 at 08:22 PM.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Fixed the formatting, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEARL View Post
    For clarification, what you quoted was Sinkinggrade’s original post, that I quoted.

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  16. #106

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by ctboom View Post
    You stated the terms as thus:
    And every single word means something, specially 'who' and 'also'.

    Regards :-)

  17. #107
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    [QUOTE=PEARL;4828525]I can understand why you've made this interpretation and it's because those who practice the uncouth habit of mentioning they are Muslim, or talking about Islam, Sunnah, and the Hadith of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم (peace and blessings be upon him) in their mercantile endeavors to sell agarwood and agarwood related product don't correct that assumption or interpretation.

    I agree with everything else you have written but is it really 'uncouth' to mention a sunnah of the Prophet pbuh (in this case wearing perfume/musk) for both business purposes and also to make their customer aware of the added spiritual benefits (acting upon a Sunnah will for sure get you closer to God)?

  18. #108
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Seems like the only times religion is mentioned is "in passing"and as " matter of fact" during candid conversations and not as a marketing ploy in product descriptions. If the prophet and people in his time in fact enjoyed ambergris, musk, and oud, is it against religion to continue such tradition today? Can any religious scholars here pontificate on why or why not as long as it is in moderation? Would the prophet be upset about this if he were here today? Is the business of fragrances really that taboo?
    Last edited by FCM415; 20th February 2020 at 06:47 PM.

  19. #109
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan al Hindi View Post
    I agree with everything else you have written but is it really 'uncouth' to mention a sunnah of the Prophet pbuh (in this case wearing perfume/musk) for both business purposes and also to make their customer aware of the added spiritual benefits (acting upon a Sunnah will for sure get you closer to God)?
    I'd love to tell you why and give examples of the uncouth behavior/habit here but likely inappropriate, check your PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by FCM415 View Post
    If the prophet and people in his time in fact enjoyed ambergris, musk, and oud, is it against religion to continue such tradition today?
    No.

  20. #110
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    The "sunnah" is to smell nice, regardless of what is used, nothing to do with organic oud oil. In fact oud oil was not available in an oil format in the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) although he did use oud wood as incense. The problem arises when businessmen try to pull at the heart-strings of gullible Muslims by trying to suggest that it is a rewarding religiously to restrict yourself to using certain materials when it is simply not the case. We have Muslims selling "sunnah erectile dysfunction pills" and "miswak toothpaste" etc. which is, of course, all a load of nonsense.
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  21. #111

    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by oudaddict View Post
    The "sunnah" is to smell nice, regardless of what is used, nothing to do with organic oud oil. In fact oud oil was not available in an oil format in the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) although he did use oud wood as incense. The problem arises when businessmen try to pull at the heart-strings of gullible Muslims by trying to suggest that it is a rewarding religiously to restrict yourself to using certain materials when it is simply not the case. We have Muslims selling "sunnah erectile dysfunction pills" and "miswak toothpaste" etc. which is, of course, all a load of nonsense.
    Exactly.

  22. #112
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    To further expound on what @oudaddict mentioned, the oud wood discussed and used from that time was said to be Qust al-Bahree (sea incense costus root said to be white) and Oud al-Hindi or Qust al-Hindi (Indian costus root said to be black). Costus root is in the costaceae family and costus genus. It is not agarwood, which is in the thymelaeaceae family and either aquilaria or gyrinops genus.

  23. #113
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by PEARL View Post
    To further expound on what @oudaddict mentioned, the oud wood discussed and used from that time was said to be Qust al-Bahree (sea incense costus root said to be white) and Oud al-Hindi or Qust al-Hindi (Indian costus root said to be black). Costus root is in the costaceae family and costus genus. It is not agarwood, which is in the thymelaeaceae family and either aquilaria or gyrinops genus.
    No, this is not what I was referring. You are correct that costus is mentioned, named "al-oud al-hindi" in Arabic, but the traditional word for agarwood in Arabic is "Uluwwah" and this has been mentioned in other narrations such as:

    Nafi reported that when Ibn Umar wanted fumigation he got it from aloeswood (oud) without mixing anything with it, or he put camphor along with aloeswood and then said: This is how Allah’s Messenger ﷺ fumigated.

    (Sahih Muslim, Book 27, No. 5601)
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  24. #114
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Official note breakdown.....4 pages later.

    Top Notes:

    Orange Blossom

    Ginger leaf

    Coriander

    Petitgrain



    Heart notes:

    Ylang Ylang

    Mimosa

    Jasmine

    Coffee

    Templin

    Pepper

    Blue Cypress

    Edward Rose

    Raspberry

    Blue lotus



    Base notes:

    Frankincense

    Aged Mysore Sandalwood

    Vintage Sumatran Oud

    Cambodian Oud

    Sri Lankan Oud

    Trio of Hindi Ouds: Garo Hills, North Cachar and Manipur



    Fixatives and carriers:

    Siberian Musk

    Tanzanian Osyris

    Beach-Combed Jamaican Ambergris
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  25. #115
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Ensar just sent a new email updating the description, complete with a note pyramid.

    May the next round of reactions begin!

  26. #116
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    I hate him so much, what a terrible human being.

  27. #117
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    No takers?

    I thought we were going to make holy interpretations on how the almighty will punish his servant for running an evil business. As his servant, Ensar will be judged by the all merciful and no one else. But I am curious about his offenses that offend some of you. Sure hes not as humble as some Saudis driving multiple Ferraris. Certainly isnt as tolerant of other human beings as most in the faith. You guys want to talk religion because he brought up Islamic traditions in a few posts and coversations? How should he be punished? Perhaps Nikhil, the nonbeliever who he misunderstood can provide punishment via oudding. Like a stoning but not fatal, just until he learned his lesson. It should make you feel better for Ensar’s shortcomings in pridefully making fragrance a life’s work which in some ways goes back to the messenger (Allah bless him).

  28. #118
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by FCM415 View Post
    No takers?

    I thought we were going to make holy interpretations on how the almighty will punish his servant for running an evil business. As his servant, Ensar will be judged by the all merciful and no one else. But I am curious about his offenses that offend some of you. Sure hes not as humble as some Saudis driving multiple Ferraris. Certainly isnt as tolerant of other human beings as most in the faith. You guys want to talk religion because he brought up Islamic traditions in a few posts and coversations? How should he be punished? Perhaps Nikhil, the nonbeliever who he misunderstood can provide punishment via oudding. Like a stoning but not fatal, just until he learned his lesson. It should make you feel better for Ensar’s shortcomings in pridefully making fragrance a life’s work which in some ways goes back to the messenger (Allah bless him).
    Enough with the shit-stirring. Let’s move on & keep the conversation on the fragrance, shall we?
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  29. #119
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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Compared to Ensar Oud, Russian Adam is Jacques Guerlain.

    Hopefully the new one is better, but Tigerlust is a genuine pile of crap.

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    Default Re: Ensar oud crime & punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    Enough with the shit-stirring. Let’s move on & keep the conversation on the fragrance, shall we?
    That’s a great idea. Since Im the only one stirring shit one way, it would be nice to see all the shit stirring the other way stop and focus on the fragrances... good or bad of course.




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