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  1. #1

    Default Vanilla absolute accord

    I have never smelled vanilla absolute before but I'm hoping some of you have on here. I have a lot of ingredients at my disposal but don't have vanilla absolute, so I was wondering if anyone has any idea of how to reproduce this. I have compiled a list of possible ingredients with the % but I may be well off here. If anyone can add to this and possibly suggest % content I would be grateful. Thank you

    Isobutavan 100% - 5
    Vanillin 100% - 25
    Ethyl vanillin 100% - 3
    Phenyl ethyl alcohol 100% - 2
    Propenyl Guaethol 1% - 2
    Amyris oil 100% - 12
    Veratraldehyde 0.01% - 1
    Santaliff 100% - 8
    Traseolide 10% - 2
    Velvione 10% - 2
    acetoin 0.1% - 1
    methyl salicylate 0.1% - 1
    anisyl alcohol - 100% - 5
    Guaiacol 0.01% - 1
    Anisaldehyde 100% - 2
    DPG - 27

    Total - 100

    *Of course I may need more DPG/alcohol to dissolve the vanillin.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Would it not be cheaper just to buy vanilla absolute? Or is this accord longer lasting?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Santaliff (more than 10% in your formula!) PEA and Traseolide don't belong in a Vanilla abs replacer, at least if that is what the formula is meant for.
    It's actually not difficult to replace Vanilla Absolute. I won't give a formula, but key is to balance the Vanillin with careful addition of phenolic materials. You already have Guaiacol in your formula, a pinch of Castoreum type in addition works nicely. Vanilla absolute also contains damascenone and lactones, but really just traces or it smells too floral or like cheap vanilla cream flavour

  4. #4

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMalteseTweed View Post
    Would it not be cheaper just to buy vanilla absolute? Or is this accord longer lasting?
    the price for vanilla absolute is still very high. But to have a reference it's of course important to buy it nevertheless

  5. #5

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by amateurperfumer View Post
    If anyone can add to this and possibly suggest % .
    the methyl salicylate and acetoin look fine as well. Anisaldehyde seems a bit overdosed

  6. #6

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Timon View Post
    Santaliff (more than 10% in your formula!) PEA and Traseolide don't belong in a Vanilla abs replacer, at least if that is what the formula is meant for.
    It's actually not difficult to replace Vanilla Absolute. I won't give a formula, but key is to balance the Vanillin with careful addition of phenolic materials. You already have Guaiacol in your formula, a pinch of Castoreum type in addition works nicely. Vanilla absolute also contains damascenone and lactones, but really just traces or it smells too floral or like cheap vanilla cream flavour
    Thank you for your detailed response. It's been a great help. I was thinking about using santaliff, and traseolide for its creamy facet. The PEA I thought of as adding a hint of sweetness. I think I need to buy vanilla absolute as reference as you mention otherwise its a bit like trying to compose a piece of music from someones description of it.

    I have made the adjustments you have suggested. I have added some m-cresol and castoreum absolute. I don't have damascenone so I added beta damascone with a small amount of rectified birch tar, to capture the smoky facet of the damascenone. I have also added some lactones as you suggested.


    beta damascone 0.1% - 1
    birch tar (rectified) - 0.00001% - 1
    Gamma octalactone 0.1% - 1
    Bicyclononalactone 0.1% - 3
    Delta decalactone 0.001% - 1
    m-cresol 0.0001% - 2
    Castoreum absolute 0.01% - 1
    Isobutavan 100% - 5
    Vanillin 100% - 25
    Ethyl vanillin 100% - 3
    Propenyl Guaethol 1% - 2
    Amyris oil 100% - 12
    Veratraldehyde 0.01% - 1
    Velvione 10% - 2
    acetoin 0.1% - 1
    methyl salicylate 0.1% - 1
    anisyl alcohol - 100% - 5
    Guaiacol 0.01% - 1
    Anisaldehyde 25% - 1
    DPG - 31

    Total - 100

    I was wondering if adding a small dose of maple lactone would help, or would it make it too sickly sweet? Or maybe even a tiny amount of DMS for a little creaminess and complexity at the opening?

    Thanks again

  7. #7

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMalteseTweed View Post
    Would it not be cheaper just to buy vanilla absolute? Or is this accord longer lasting?
    Vanilla absolute is extremely expensive - costing roughly around the $4 or $5 per g for a quality product for an end user like me not purchasing in kgs. The blend I have suggested would cost probably around $0.50 per g at the very most, if not around $0.15 per g since the vanillin cost me around $0.08 per g to purchase.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    I realised I do have damascenone total which from my understanding is very similar to beta damascenone. Never used it up until now, so I will use this instead of damascone beta and birch tar.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Here's my input, after I rebuilt Vanilla Absolute from scratch, (my Vanilla Absolute Replacer sold at PSH):

    Your Phenolic content is likely OK.
    your Vanillic content is likely fine.
    I'm puzzled though, by your lactone content, Amyris and musk content.
    And I don't see any fruit notes, or spice notes.

    But your goals may be different than mine were: to produce a duplicate Vanilla Absolute (dilution in alcohol).
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Here's my input, after I rebuilt Vanilla Absolute from scratch, (my Vanilla Absolute Replacer sold at PSH):

    Your Phenolic content is likely OK.
    your Vanillic content is likely fine.
    I'm puzzled though, by your lactone content, Amyris and musk content.
    And I don't see any fruit notes, or spice notes.

    But your goals may be different than mine were: to produce a duplicate Vanilla Absolute (dilution in alcohol).
    I came up with the formula based on descriptions of vanilla absolute. I suppose I was doomed to fail from the start. The amyris I added to add a soft woody edge to it, as I read somewhere that vanilla absolute has some woodiness. Is the lactone content too much? I added a bit of Musk (velvione) to aid the diffusion but I suppose it's not found in vanilla absolute.

    I think I need to get hold of some to smell and analyse. But out of interest what kind of fruitiness is it and what kind of spice? Thanks for your kind response

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Ah, the issue may be twofold.
    1. You need to get some real absolute to smell. If you are working to duplicate something that you have not smelled, and only have read descriptions, then obtaining some real Vanilla Absolute to smell is essential.

    2. You should also seek and find a GCMS of the extraction you seek to duplicate.
    A GC result will give you ideas necessary for the completion of your project.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Timon View Post
    It's actually not difficult to replace Vanilla Absolute
    This I actually disagree with. I have smelled many a nice accord, many "fluff" like variations, but nothing which mimics the woody, resinous, barrel rum quality of the natural. I second the lactones and damascenone; maybe also benaldehyde, eugenol and phenyl acetyic acid all in traces.

    Castoreum, as you mention, is also an interesting option (on top of guaicol -- which one can almost overdose). It is used for vanilla flavors, incidentally; also peach.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by amateurperfumer View Post
    I have never smelled vanilla absolute before but I'm hoping some of you have on here. I have a lot of ingredients at my disposal but don't have vanilla absolute, so I was wondering if anyone has any idea of how to reproduce this. I have compiled a list of possible ingredients with the % but I may be well off here. If anyone can add to this and possibly suggest % content I would be grateful. Thank you

    Isobutavan 100% - 5
    Vanillin 100% - 25
    Ethyl vanillin 100% - 3
    Phenyl ethyl alcohol 100% - 2
    Propenyl Guaethol 1% - 2
    Amyris oil 100% - 12
    Veratraldehyde 0.01% - 1
    Santaliff 100% - 8
    Traseolide 10% - 2
    Velvione 10% - 2
    acetoin 0.1% - 1
    methyl salicylate 0.1% - 1
    anisyl alcohol - 100% - 5
    Guaiacol 0.01% - 1
    Anisaldehyde 100% - 2
    DPG - 27

    Total - 100

    *Of course I may need more DPG/alcohol to dissolve the vanillin.
    amateurperfumer, good formula......but if you buy an excellent Vanilla Bourbon Madagascar Absolute, you realize what a wonderful sweet/bitter dark depth.....
    Last edited by Geco; 15th February 2020 at 12:03 PM.

  14. #14

    Wink Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    What's about the vanilla bean accord of Perfumers Apprentice/Givaudan?

    It contains:

    1x Methyl Diantilis
    1x Vanillin
    2x Ethyl Vanillin
    2x Hedione
    4x Ethyl Maltol 1%

    It should lead to an odor of a raw vanilla bean (dark, with a spicy caramel touch). I like this accord very much, but I haven't smelled vanilla absolute before. In a few weeks I will order a small amount to evaluate because I think every perfumer should have smelled real vanilla abs.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Ah, the issue may be twofold.
    1. You need to get some real absolute to smell. If you are working to duplicate something that you have not smelled, and only have read descriptions, then obtaining some real Vanilla Absolute to smell is essential.

    2. You should also seek and find a GCMS of the extraction you seek to duplicate.
    A GC result will give you ideas necessary for the completion of your project.
    I completely agree. To be honest I have tried to find gcms for various absolutes/essential oils, but I couldn't find a source for this. But that would of course be a huge help. And completely agree trying to produce a base and having not smelt the original absolute is like painting whilst blind - extremely difficult.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Thank you all for your replies. What I gather is vanilla absolute is this wonderful aroma with great depth, complexity and beauty that can only be appreciated when smelled and this I will definitely do. As soon as I get paid that's what I'm spending my money on!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    At perfumersworld.com you can buy diluted absolute (10%) in small amounts, e.g. 1 ml. That's not so expensive. I will try it when I have to order some other materials too.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    No offense but why on Earth would you go to such extremes and to not even own a sample of real Vanilla abs?

    Are you trying to achieve the impossible? lol.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by NonConformist View Post
    At perfumersworld.com you can buy diluted absolute (10%) in small amounts, e.g. 1 ml. That's not so expensive. I will try it when I have to order some other materials too.
    I have used perfumersworld in the past and whilst they are overall very good 2 of the materials I purchased (out of about 40) were rancid. I think I'm going to purchase something like vanilla absolute from a more reliable vendor. But thank you for pointing it out

  20. #20

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpLess View Post
    No offense but why on Earth would you go to such extremes and to not even own a sample of real Vanilla abs?

    Are you trying to achieve the impossible? lol.
    Haha. I see where you're coming from. I actually need the vanilla absolute for a chocolate accord. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on perfume materials recently so I cant unfortunately buy anything else at the moment and I wanted to make a start on the chocolate accord which requires vanilla absolute which I dont have. That's all! I will purchase in a few weeks. In addition I was thinking about cost - if I can make something to replace it at a twentieth or tenth of the cost it would be incredible. But getting hold of some and smelling it is essential I know!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Quote Originally Posted by amateurperfumer View Post
    Haha. I see where you're coming from. I actually need the vanilla absolute for a chocolate accord. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on perfume materials recently so I cant unfortunately buy anything else at the moment and I wanted to make a start on the chocolate accord which requires vanilla absolute which I dont have. That's all! I will purchase in a few weeks. In addition I was thinking about cost - if I can make something to replace it at a twentieth or tenth of the cost it would be incredible. But getting hold of some and smelling it is essential I know!
    Yeah man, I've done that a few times, one thing leads to another and you try and cut corners because the costs become prohibitive. No worries, take your time and study it carefully, you're on the right track.

  22. #22
    Super Member Finelikeanoyster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    Probably is not a bad formula, but i don't see what musks are making in there. I think to add a bit eugenol/clove oil and a bit of chamomile oil to a near real vanilla pod. Can smoke flavor enter here ? i think this can be fine, obvious in a finished alcohol perfume. a drop.
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Vanilla absolute accord

    I have done a fair but of research on vanilla absolute. I realised how wrong some of my formula was.

    I have reformulated it again based on the information I've managed to find on vanilla absolute. Some of the materials used are found in vanilla absolute. Others are not found in it but are closest to getting the effect of substances found in the absolute, but which cannot be easily sourced.

    The formula is as follows:

    Acetic acid 100% - 1
    Cis 3 hexenyl butyrate 1% - 4
    Beta damascenone 0.01% - 3
    Guaiacol 0.1% - 4
    Valspice 0.1% - 1
    Methyl cinnamate 0.01% - 3
    P-cresol 0.01% - 2
    Gamma nonalactone 0.001% - 8
    Gamma decalactone 0.0001% - 4
    Eugenol 0.001% - 4
    Castoreum absolute 0.01% - 1
    Honey signature base (firmenich) 0.01% - 2
    Vanillin 100% - 94
    Anisyl alcohol 100% - 2
    Ethyl vanillin 100% - 2
    Acetoin 0.01% - 3
    Isobutavan 100% - 1
    DPG - 62

    Total - 200




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