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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Tom Ford is great but not as natural as creed imo. Roja is very natural too.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron View Post
    Which are next on the chopping block?

    Iris? Vetiver from Haiti or wherever?

    Iris: maybe, but for now they did not manage to make a satisfactory aromachemical, to the best of my knowledge. Soon probably.
    Vetiver: very unlikely, because it is widely available, and the extraction process from the vetiver root is cheap. (the reason why it is possible to find great vetiver fragrances decently priced)

    Providing cheaper lab alternatives to natural aromatic molecules is for sure one of the things that big chem is trying to do, but they mostly try to create bases/accords that remind of aromatic molecules impossible to extract (ie. leather), unstable/unusable (ie. strawberry).
    The panel of aromatic compounds available in nature is wide, but limited, and naother axis of their work is to create aromachemicals that are totally new, and didn't exist before that, which are often part of the blends of fragrances qualified of "grounbreaking/gamechanging" (ie the rasperry/leather accord used for the first time in TF Tuscan Leather, the oud accord used for the first time in TF Oud Wood, the woody note used for the first time in Gucci Guilty Absolute).

    So, many times, I would qualify the labs working on that of creative engines more than chopping blocks. Also, many fragheads on a budget would never have had an opportunity to own a fragrance with some "oud vibes" (or other expensive natural oils) if not for the low cost oud accord that several Big Chem corps offer now. (I am the first to say that most are far from smelling like the real deal, but still).

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    There are very good reasons to develop new synthetics: better ("less synthetic") smell, better performance, lower toxicity, and so on. None of the larger houses (including Creed) uses 100% naturals—it's too expensive, the scent too variable, the supply chain too unreliable. That's why synthetics have been in use since 1889. A handful of independent producers eschew all synthetics; everyone else uses at least some.

    Now, not all synthetics designed to mimic a natural scent are convincing, but I'd wager most would fool, or at least satisfy, most people. (How many successful oud fragrances have no actual oud in them?) I suspect some are exceptional to the point that we don't realize they're not natural. It would be nice to have the option to buy more current fragrances with ingredients now restricted by the EU, but those of us who care about that will have to settle for vintage, and for indies who thumb their noses at the IFRA.

    For my tastes, I would much rather a perfumer got lazy by using an overdose of oakmoss as a crutch rather than an overdose of ambroxan. However, I expect a true artist to be able to work with whatever materials are available and approved.
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  4. #34

    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron View Post
    Natural is better. Creed is best because they are 100% natural.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldWineMemories View Post
    I think I disagree there cameron. I think Tom Ford uses all naturals and his fragrances make you sexy and appealing, but creed is a close second. I heard Oliver actually collects the 100% real ambergris they use in every fragrance by hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by cameron View Post
    Tom Ford is great but not as natural as creed imo. Roja is very natural too.
    No house uses 100% naturals. For sure not these 3. Also because many of the "naturals" are chemically unstable.

    As for ambergris, for sure none use real ambergris tincture in widely available fragrance given how difficult it is to source it - and if some do, these are probably frags with a 4 digit price tag, or there is just one drop per gallon of oil, just to say "we use real ambergris". Also, there are different grades of ambergris, and it may give better final results to use a well-done aromachemical emulating white ambergris tincture, instead of real black ambergris tincture.

    Anyways, Creed, TF and Roja using 100% naturals? Forget it. And if they so, they should be sued for deceptive marketing.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by PStoller View Post
    There are very good reasons to develop new synthetics: better ("less synthetic") smell, better performance, lower toxicity, and so on. None of the larger houses (including Creed) uses 100% naturals—it's too expensive, the scent too variable, the supply chain too unreliable. That's why synthetics have been in use since 1889. A handful of independent producers eschew all synthetics; everyone else uses at least some.

    Now, not all synthetics designed to mimic a natural scent are convincing, but I'd wager most would fool, or at least satisfy, most people. (How many successful oud fragrances have no actual oud in them?) I suspect some are exceptional to the point that we don't realize they're not natural. It would be nice to have the option to buy more current fragrances with ingredients now restricted by the EU, but those of us who care about that will have to settle for vintage, and for indies who thumb their noses at the IFRA.

    For my tastes, I would much rather a perfumer got lazy by using an overdose of oakmoss as a crutch rather than an overdose of ambroxan. However, I expect a true artist to be able to work with whatever materials are available and approved.
    I agree with most of this, but just wanted to point out that Fougère Royale from 1882 was the first use of a synthetic note (coumarin), not 1889's Guerlain Jicky, although Guerlain were nipping at Houbigant's heels on that one.
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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron View Post
    Natural is better. Creed is best because they are 100% natural.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldWineMemories View Post
    I think I disagree there cameron. I think Tom Ford uses all naturals and his fragrances make you sexy and appealing, but creed is a close second. I heard Oliver actually collects the 100% real ambergris they use in every fragrance by hand.
    That's some quality counter-trolling there. It must be all natural.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy the frenchy View Post
    No house uses 100% naturals. For sure not these 3. Also because many of the "naturals" are chemically unstable.

    As for ambergris, for sure none use real ambergris tincture in widely available fragrance given how difficult it is to source it - and if some do, these are probably frags with a 4 digit price tag, or there is just one drop per gallon of oil, just to say "we use real ambergris". Also, there are different grades of ambergris, and it may give better final results to use a well-done aromachemical emulating white ambergris tincture, instead of real black ambergris tincture.

    Anyways, Creed, TF and Roja using 100% naturals? Forget it.
    I believe House of Matriarch still uses 100% naturals, but may have changed. And don't fall for it, Cameron likes to make outrageous statements like that just to get a rise out of people. lol

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltasun View Post
    I believe House of Matriarch still uses 100% naturals, but may have changed. And don't fall for it, Cameron likes to make outrageous statements like that just to get a rise out of people. lol
    We just pat him on the head and say "there there, it's okay" until the next "Olivier Creed and Tom Ford test tube lovechild poised to make ultimate compliment getter fragrance" thread appears.
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  9. #39

    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldWineMemories View Post
    Except for you have nothing to back up your statement with other than wishes and hopes. Prove that any company uses naturals. You like the idea and you like the story they tell you. I absolutely think there should be more synthetics because why not? They accomplish art when used well. What you're saying is asinine a chemical composition is the same every time when you account for all the factors using synthetics, naturals that just is not so. Yes to an extent you can control batches and overall you may not notice a difference or it may be slight, but to deny this denies reality and science.
    Your logic is as sound as Spocks ears are real.
    Throughout your life you’ve only been spraying yourself with synthetics? I’m not sure which statement is more humourous - You only using synthetics or Creed only using 100% naturals. If you would like to try a natural spray, firsthand, bite into an orange without peeling it. Then bite into another and write an essay on the variation between aforementioned oranges. Now prove they weren’t synthetic.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Some use only naturals, but they don't last long. And the profiles are sort of limited.
    FYI: I spray all fragrances on clothing, never on skin.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    I’m not a expert at chemicals but creed smells the most natural. This is why they smell so good. They seem 100% to me. No one comes close. But roja does a nice job I must say as far as naturals.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot Crusader View Post
    …just wanted to point out that Fougère Royale from 1882 was the first use of a synthetic note (coumarin), not 1889's Guerlain Jicky, although Guerlain were nipping at Houbigant's heels on that one.
    Damn that Houbigant and their phony-baloney pseudo-tonka!

    Actually, both these fragrances illustrate the problem with drawing a hard line between natural and synthetic notes. Coumarin is a naturally occurring organic chemical that can also be synthesized it in a lab. The same is true of vanillin, a natural part of vanilla, which was synthesized and then used (alongside synthesized coumarin) in Jicky. They don't occur naturally as isolates, it's true: but then, tonka and vanilla don't occur naturally as extracts, either. Furthermore, the combinations of chemicals used to make all-natural fragrances don't occur in nature; and we don't naturally smell like the fragrances we wear. (Not even Eau d'Hèrmes.)

    I have no idea what the first aromachemical not found within a natural compound would be, let alone in which fragrance it was first employed. But, while I respond to the complexity that naturally-derived scents owe to their impurities, I think we tend to romanticize "nature" even as we defy it.
    Last edited by PStoller; 27th March 2020 at 03:38 AM.
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by PStoller View Post
    Damn that Houbigant and their phony-baloney pseudo-tonka!

    Actually, both these fragrances illustrate the problem with drawing a hard line between natural and synthetic notes. Coumarin is a naturally occurring organic chemical that can also be synthesized it in a lab. The same is true of vanillin, a natural part of vanilla, which was synthesized and then used (alongside synthesized coumarin) in Jicky. They don't occur naturally as isolates, it's true: but then, tonka and vanilla don't occur naturally as extracts, either. Furthermore, the combinations of chemicals used to make all-natural fragrances don't occur in nature; and we don't naturally smell like the fragrances we wear. (Not even Eau d'Hèrmes.)

    I have no idea what the first aromachemical not found within a natural compound would be, let alone in which fragrance it was first employed. But, while I respond to the complexity of naturally-derived scents that they owe to their impurities, I think we tend to romanticize "nature" even as we defy it.
    Totally agree with this. The taste of bananas as we know them now completely changed in the 1950's when the Gros Michel banana was wiped out by disease and replaced with the Cavendish banana. It's why some older banana candies and flavorings still produced bafflingly don't taste like banana to us, because their flavor was patterned after the extinct Gros Michel banana and not our current Cavendish variety. Even with non-concentrate orange juice, the way it's preserved for potable consumption removes most of the flavor, so chemists put that flavor back with a "perfume" of sorts that is in essence synthetic.
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  14. #44
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Tommy by Tommy Hilfiger uses a slice of real apple pie for their apple pie note. If you freeze your bottle, it'll turn into a slice of pie that you can cut up.

    ....don't fragrances that do use naturals tend to be oily, since they're using real oils?

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by mustardsalad View Post
    Tommy by Tommy Hilfiger uses a slice of real apple pie for their apple pie note. If you freeze your bottle, it'll turn into a slice of pie that you can cut up.

    ....don't fragrances that do use naturals tend to be oily, since they're using real oils?
    Lol, sweet prob it quite the experience ha.
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  16. #46
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    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by thrilledchilled View Post
    Some use only naturals, but they don't last long. And the profiles are sort of limited.
    Very true, I’ve always heard about them not lasting which makes sense.
    “I find fragrance to be such a mood enhancer and definitely a seduction tool.”

  17. #47

    Default Re: Will all natural ingredients be replaced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
    Your logic is as sound as Spocks ears are real.
    Throughout your life you’ve only been spraying yourself with synthetics? I’m not sure which statement is more humourous - You only using synthetics or Creed only using 100% naturals. If you would like to try a natural spray, firsthand, bite into an orange without peeling it. Then bite into another and write an essay on the variation between aforementioned oranges. Now prove they weren’t synthetic.
    You've gotten so angry what you say no long makes sense..




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