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    Default Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Some would probably say Clive Christian. And they'd probably be right. OK. Other houses?
    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    MFK perhaps?
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    The quality of ingredients is often so subjective when it comes to fragrances. Of the three or four Rojas I tried, they all smelled quite cheap to my nose. Clearly, that's a rare opinion. Guerlain, on the other hand, smells far more refined and of better quality. For example, Guerlain Vetiver smells far superior in terms of quality than Roja's A Midsummer Dream to my nose.

    On the other hand, I really like Creed and that can smell cheap to some here. I think if one is strictly interested in the highest quality ingredients then Rogue Perfumery, Areej Le Dore and Bortnikoff are the houses to explore, first and foremost. Again, just my own subjective take.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellbentforleather View Post
    The quality of ingredients is often so subjective when it comes to fragrances. Of the three or four Rojas I tried, they all smelled quite cheap to my nose. Clearly, that's a rare opinion. Guerlain, on the other hand, smells far more refined and of better quality. For example, Guerlain Vetiver smells far superior in terms of quality than Roja's A Midsummer Dream to my nose.

    On the other hand, I really like Creed and that can smell cheap to some here. I think if one is strictly interested in the highest quality ingredients then Rogue Perfumery, Areej Le Dore and Bortnikoff are the houses to explore, first and foremost. Again, just my own subjective take.
    I agree with you here. It's hard to determine the objective quality of ingredients.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    House of Matriarch comes to mind when talking about overpric....errr... "quality" fragrances

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
    House of Matriarch comes to mind when talking about overpric....errr... "quality" fragrances
    Haha! Word.

    Amouage always strikes me as quality.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Clive Christian
    Maison Francis Kurdjian
    Xerjoff
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Boadicea The Victorious
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Puredistance. I know only M and Opardu from them, but both are high quality, especially Opardu.

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Xerjoff would be one to consider
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Seconding especially Xerjoff, while also adding certain scents by Jovoy Paris, especially the Les Parfums Capitaux line
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    A loaded question I can't answer as I don't ascribe quality to price point due to the markups in this segment of the perfume market.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellbentforleather View Post
    Of the three or four Rojas I tried, they all smelled quite cheap to my nose.
    I'm with you.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    If you're after price=quality, then simply go for one of the dozens of French niche 'houses' that continue to pop up and throw up entire ranges with mind-numbing regularity. I mean, they're French, expensive, exclusive, and their bottles are 100ml, so you know they have to be good. And the best thing is you can buy them blind and sing their praises regardless of whether they're great or shite, since it's not like anyone would know (or care to know) the difference and they'll probably not be around long enough anyway.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    I find a vast majority if credible design prive lines deliver quality. MFK also matches that level of quality. For me Rojas are quality through and through, even if they don’t represent great value.

    A lot of garbage is coming through in the indie-niche and faux-lux niche sectors purporting to be quality. That’s where the land mines are, don’t let yourself step on them.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    I've been sitting on this one for a few hours and still cant get my head around how the likes of Xerjoff and MFK can be put on a level near Roja and FDB..

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    The issue with the luxe houses like Roja and its peers is that they're generally still using the same Givaudan/Firmenich/IFF captives and molecules that you can find downmarket (in the same way all those Tom Ford Private Blend molecules show up in MAC and Michael Kors fragrance releases, or that Banana Republic sources those same materials to create budget frags that still "read" to the nose as luxe-niche), which means that the quality differential isn't really all that pronounced in terms of raw materials. What you're paying for is the distinctiveness of the composition, but under the hood it's mostly the same stuff. And in the case of Roja, I don't think the compositions are all that distinctive.

    One reason some of the more high-end artisanal/independent perfumers (thinking here of folks like Tauer or Nicolaï) really stand out is that they exist outside of this ecosystem and don't replicate the Givaudan/Firmenich/IFF aesthetic.

    This is also true of the long-running, less-celebrated barbershop-ish houses I like so much (i.e. - Floris, Santa Maria Novella): their scents don't feel like they share the same DNA as those made as part of the larger corporate machine.

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    I strongly disagree Brooks
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MELVCMS01 View Post
    I strongly disagree Brooks


    I've spent my fair share on luxe-niche stuff, so I'm not scolding anybody for doing so. I just see it as being on more of a continuum than not, with artisanal/independent perfume (which occupies a pretty wide quality spectrum, admittedly) sitting outside of that.

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks Otterlake View Post
    The issue with the luxe houses like Roja and its peers is that they're generally still using the same Givaudan/Firmenich/IFF captives and molecules that you can find downmarket (in the same way all those Tom Ford Private Blend molecules show up in MAC and Michael Kors fragrance releases, or that Banana Republic sources those same materials to create budget frags that still "read" to the nose as luxe-niche), which means that the quality differential isn't really all that pronounced in terms of raw materials. What you're paying for is the distinctiveness of the composition, but under the hood it's mostly the same stuff. And in the case of Roja, I don't think the compositions are all that distinctive.

    One reason some of the more high-end artisanal/independent perfumers (thinking here of folks like Tauer or Nicolaï) really stand out is that they exist outside of this ecosystem and don't replicate the Givaudan/Firmenich/IFF aesthetic.

    This is also true of the long-running, less-celebrated barbershop-ish houses I like so much (i.e. - Floris, Santa Maria Novella): their scents don't feel like they share the same DNA as those made as part of the larger corporate machine.
    You may be right or wrong, or partially either way, about the fact that Roja Dove fragrances draw from the same pool of aroma chemicals and naturals as other high end niche and designer and may have commonalities with standard designers. Let’s face it, none of us will know the extent of the truth. Though Roja Dove has previously talked about the importance of escaping that ecosystem when he created his gourmand range, noting that he had approached food flavourings companies to find ingredients that would enhance the traditional gourmand accords found in fragrances. So that is a little window into his way of thinking.

    Where Roja Dove’s perfumes differ is in his background and his creative direction. There’s no disputing that Roja Dove fully controls the creative direction of his perfumes, he loves perfume, He is a perfume historian, he closely interacts with his customer base and most importantly, he has a long history in the fragrance industry spanning 4 decades beginning with marketing and training at Guerlain. That’s the experience you pay for when you buy a Roja Dove perfume. Sure, Roja Dove perfumes don’t have people rolling on the floor with ecstasy to justify their price, but IMO there is an incremental difference in quality that is down to Roja’s experience and creative direction which doesn’t necessarily come from the ingredients.

    if you don’t like his fragrances, or you think they smell cheap, that is your truth and nobody can dispute your perceptions. So I’m Not here to tell you that your are wrong. But I did want to make certain points in support of Roja’s fragrances because he is quite different to that standard entrepreneur who enters the market overnight with 8 fragrances, or who jumps from youtube reviewer one day to creative director of a house the next day.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    I would say Stéphane Humbert Lucas fragrances have that opulent feel to them. And to a slightly lesser degree, many Thameen fragrances do also.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks Otterlake View Post
    I'm with you.
    Prices are high too, not to say some are not worth it but at some prices it makes one not want to venture and possibly enjoy one at that price. Although Creed is a house I have enjoyed and never had a issue paying prices for even discounted, I switched to splits eventually but even then still pricey but never bothered me since I enjoyed the quality they delivered.
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Joe View Post
    House of Matriarch comes to mind when talking about overpric....errr... "quality" fragrances
    I actually find that HOM offerings are pretty unique, and usually long lasting, and smell of “quality” to me. And the thing is with their high price point.....it’s not actually terrible because they have so many sales throughout the year, and at 40-50% discounts or the buy one get one free, imo it’s very fair for their stuff.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    from the ones I've tried I'd say Guerlain (probably best bang for buck), MFK, Amouage, Masque Milano, Frederic Malle, Affinessence. Another affordable one would be Cartier imo.

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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickZee View Post
    You may be right or wrong, or partially either way, about the fact that Roja Dove fragrances draw from the same pool of aroma chemicals and naturals as other high end niche and designer and may have commonalities with standard designers. Let’s face it, none of us will know the extent of the truth. Though Roja Dove has previously talked about the importance of escaping that ecosystem when he created his gourmand range, noting that he had approached food flavourings companies to find ingredients that would enhance the traditional gourmand accords found in fragrances. So that is a little window into his way of thinking.

    Where Roja Dove’s perfumes differ is in his background and his creative direction. There’s no disputing that Roja Dove fully controls the creative direction of his perfumes, he loves perfume, He is a perfume historian, he closely interacts with his customer base and most importantly, he has a long history in the fragrance industry spanning 4 decades beginning with marketing and training at Guerlain. That’s the experience you pay for when you buy a Roja Dove perfume. Sure, Roja Dove perfumes don’t have people rolling on the floor with ecstasy to justify their price, but IMO there is an incremental difference in quality that is down to Roja’s experience and creative direction which doesn’t necessarily come from the ingredients.

    if you don’t like his fragrances, or you think they smell cheap, that is your truth and nobody can dispute your perceptions. So I’m Not here to tell you that your are wrong. But I did want to make certain points in support of Roja’s fragrances because he is quite different to that standard entrepreneur who enters the market overnight with 8 fragrances, or who jumps from youtube reviewer one day to creative director of a house the next day.
    Great points. I'm one who happen to find value (much more important than quality in some respects) in Roja's work. Not all, but have been impressed greatly with his products.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Hmm,

    Considering that likely none of us are chemists or makers of essential oils and none of us are working with any master perfumers in lab setting trying to construct a fragrance, we really don't know what constitutes "high quality". We can give an opinion on what our noses tell us, but we don't know for sure. Since the vast majority of fragrance made today is done with lab created aroma chemicals it's likely very few high-end perfumers are using natural essential oils in their perfumes. And if you really want natural oils from plants you're probably more likely going to get that from a small artisan who is making their own products. These days, even houses using plant extracts aren't just using old perfuming techniques, but rather they are putting the natural plant through a process that changes the way it smells so that their perfume is distinctive and different.

    It's more likely than not, that your best bet for a great quality fragrance is going to cost a few hundred and is going to be using higher-end aroma chemicals and naturals to make something unique and nose catching. I'm not going to tell you what "is" high quality because I couldn't know that. I don't work in the industry of perfuming. I can give you an opinion on what I "think" smells like it's got high end ingredients. That opinion could potentially be wrong just like anyone else's.

    For me, the fragrance lines that seem to smell like they have high-end ingredients (whether natural or synthetic) are:

    Clive Christian
    Frederic Malle
    Xerjoff
    Creed
    Tom Ford Private Blend
    YSL's Le Vestiaire des Parfums line

    "Some" of Christian Dior Maison line
    Chanel

    I also think before she closed her doors, Sonoma Scent Studios produced very rich and potent fragrances of high quality.
    Amouage is clearly using fine materials. Just so many.

    I confirmed from via email that these small artisans hand-make limited batches themselves. Although not originally perfumers by trade they have a passion for fragrance with different crafts/products and the ingredients they use are very important to them.:

    Rogue Perfumery - All of these fragrances smell like a lot of trouble was spent putting together potent, natural ingredients.
    A few of Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements - Atomic Age Bay Rum & Sangre de Drago smell very well crafted, there are a few others that smell high quality but aren't my taste and alas, some I like but to me don't smell like they have high-end ingredients. Seems like the best sellers of PAA get more focus on quality and the seasonal ones don't (that's just an opinion).
    Last edited by tspencer; 7th April 2020 at 05:26 AM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Roja has some stuff that doesn't make me roll my eyes, but I just struggle to see any of it as "best in class," which is what the price point demands. If you're spending Roja money, that bottle better be one of the best fragrances ever made in the history of perfumery.

    Roja's remake of Guerlain Héritage, Danger, is perhaps more interesting than the present-day formulation of Héritage (but not 7 times more interesting, as the price might suggest), but it isn't more satisfying than vintage Héritage or as excellent as Nicolaï's own Héritage sequel, New York Intense.

    The Roja stuff that reads as "cheap" to me (and "cheap" is hyperbolic, and I'm inclined to be hyperbolic to push against the hype that sustains the luxe-niche image; "common" might be the better word here) is the stuff that feels like it's just treatments of mainstream designer trends given an aura of brand exclusivity. Elysium would be an example.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    I have never smelled a Roja that came off as cheap.
    That being said, I would not pay $35 for Midsummer Night or Reckless, but would have no problem spending $435 for Elysium Pur Parfum.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Other houses like Roja and Fragrance du Bois (in terms of quality)?

    Quote Originally Posted by vitaman View Post
    I have never smelled a Roja that came off as cheap.
    That being said, I would not pay $35 for Midsummer Night or Reckless, but would have no problem spending $435 for Elysium Pur Parfum.
    I wouldn't ever spend $435 on any bottle of scented juice, so contextualize my comments accordingly.
    Last edited by Brooks Otterlake; 7th April 2020 at 01:33 PM.




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