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  1. #1
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    Default Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I have fallen in love with Tincturing, it is a very fun distraction, and I don't mind projects that involve a long time waiting for results. I feel like a little witch in my kitchen crushing, grinding or slicing foraged ingredients and making murky dark green jars of sweet smelling secrets. I think my Oakmoss hooked me, I had no idea what I was in for. Currently sitting in a dark cupboard I have a whole quart of Oakmoss, plus smaller batches of Grand Fir (like Christmas trees decked with grapefruits), Frankincense, Cottonwood, Red Flowering Currant (weirdly minty fruit notes), Green Cardamom, Sassafras, Vanilla, Tonka Bean, Dried Lavender, Licorice Fern Roots (earthy, mushrooms, petrichor). When the wild Nootka Rose flowers I will be trying that as well.

    Yesterday I hesitantly poured some alcohol over some powdered orris root that I purchased a couple months ago from a local herbalist shop, the sort of place that has been open since the 60's and seems like it is still selling it's original stock. I had little hope for the orris powder, it seemed ancient and smelled of nothing but stale, musty dust. But this morning! Oh my goodness! I gave it a shake and got a little alcohol on my hands, so while making sure I had it properly sealed this time, and discovered my hands smell strongly of violets! I had basement level expectations, and expected those lackluster results would take months of waiting.... I am now so excited to see how it does with some maturing.

    I am wondering what all of you have tried and fallen in love with? And anyone with experience tincturing powdered orris?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Yes, I made one tincture of orris powder in 96% alcohol, and have another one in work. It, by itself, is a weak tincture, but if you use it for an iris accord is very good. You can use it anyway for the powdery effect and as a fixative in perfumes. The tincture has a slight flowery smell.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Idk if it is successful or anything yet, but I love it! I recently started to drop pine sap/resin into 96 % alcohol. I love the smell-I get from faint anamalic to blue cheese! The reason I’m unsure is it has only been 10-2days and they obviously need to be diluted further, but I am thrilled. I have many others that I love as well but my bottles are not airtight so I am searching for bottles right now...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I'm doing a concentrated saffron tincture in ethanol (perfumer's alcohol) now at 20%. This doesn't cover all of the saffron threads at first, but as the threads become saturated with alcohol and break down, the alcohol now barely covers the threads. I used 1g of saffron (in two 0.5g spice bottles from the grocery) in 4g of alcohol. At 2 weeks on, the alcohol has gone from neon yellow to red. So I'm going to see what happens after one month. I'm not sure that going to 3 months will be beneficial, I'm thinking the alcohol will be saturated and not be able to absorb any more saffron material. I'll eventually pour the alcohol into a funnel and coffee filter over a clean 1oz Boston round. Then I'll squeeze out the threads to collect every drop I can. Then I'll see what my final weight is. Of course I'll pre-moisten the filter with clean alcohol to prevent losing any material. Dividing 4 by the final grams of alcohol, I'll see what percentage my tincture is.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Jolieo, Blue cheese? I would have never expected that of Pine but it sounds really interesting! I have been using canning jars with the 2 part lids and have had no leaks or evaporation (except when I cross threaded the lid by accident last night, if you are careful, they work great). I like them because they are useful for more than just perfumery, are cheap and easily available at grocery stores.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I started w small amounts because I have either mail order or drive to Georgia to get 96% ethanol, I haven’t seen little an I g jars but I’ll see online now, never thought of those, thank you!

  7. #7
    Super Member SubUmbra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Could you describe the Licorice Fern Roots process and results a bit more? I’m on a mission to create a perfect petrichor accord and this seems useful.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubUmbra View Post
    Could you describe the Licorice Fern Roots process and results a bit more? I’m on a mission to create a perfect petrichor accord and this seems useful.
    Hi, so this tincture is only about a week old and is still pretty faint on skin, no idea how/if it will perform as I hope, it's an experiment. If you are unfamiliar with Licorice Ferns, their roots are edible, and when you get even a tiny bit on your tongue the effect is sort of like sucking a sweetnlow packet you found in your compost, this unreal weird sweeter than sweet dirt taste, kind of metallic, kind of fungal, licorice, but medicinal licorice aftertaste. Weirdly addictive, and once you've tried it, you will recognize the smell on forest walks as it seems to steam out of the forest floor. It's as close to edible Geosmin as I have found personally.

    My method was to find a huge pile of them on the side of the road after an escavator carved up a rock wall beside my house (disclaimer that I did not pillage my local parklands for these). I took the ferns home, planted the ones that could be saved, and scrubbed clean the rhizomes that were too broken. After scrubbing, I put them in my dehydrator to dry till hard. They shrunk dramatically considering how woody they felt before! I pulsed them in my food processor till they were small pieces, but not powder, then added alcohol and I am waiting. I think my ratio was approximately 1:3 weight to volume.

    Should I have pulverized them totally? Did being impatient and drying them on the lowest setting in a dehydrator affect them negatively vs drying them slowly? I don't know. I don't really know if this will work at all, I haven't found any tincture advice about Fern roots! I'm hopeful.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolieo View Post
    I started w small amounts because I have either mail order or drive to Georgia to get 96% ethanol, I haven’t seen little an I g jars but I’ll see online now, never thought of those, thank you!
    The smallest ones that I use are 125 ml (4 oz) ones. They are great for little experiments.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Fold the tinctures. For example if your Tincture has been sat there for a while,
    and took out all the flavour of your ingredient, re do the tincture with more of the same ingredient (the same weight)
    1) allow your alcohol to take in the scent
    2) filter the tincture, taking out residue
    3) use the filtered tincture as your new alcohol and put in more ‘new’ ingredients with the same weight and tincture again.

    This gives more strength to your tincture.

    Ive done a few tinctures and they never seemed too strong however I decided to redo it and later found out it’s called ‘folding’ or so I believe

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Folding sounds like a great approach to it.

    I've done a 5-month tincture of an Assam black tea. It almost reminded me of tobacco by the time I decided to give it a try. I'll probably try making another batch for longer and use it to add some character to tea accords. I've also been curious to try a toasted rice tincture.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamboa View Post
    Fold the tinctures. For example if your Tincture has been sat there for a while,
    and took out all the flavour of your ingredient, re do the tincture with more of the same ingredient (the same weight)
    1) allow your alcohol to take in the scent
    2) filter the tincture, taking out residue
    3) use the filtered tincture as your new alcohol and put in more ‘new’ ingredients with the same weight and tincture again.
    Yes, this works great! Especially for flowers, the alcohol extracts the fragrance in a few minutes to hours and you can do several charges over a couple days. I did this with my Flowering Red Currant

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I don't have a lot of experience in making tinctures, but since I was very young I tried making them

    My favourite (I made it when I was 10) is Yarrow: sweet, balsamic, green even it reminds me of vanilla. I love it.

    Yesterday I made a tincture of dried grass, and today it's a bright green and it has a sweet-hay perfume.

    IMG_20200408_160534.jpg
    Dried grass tincture. Sorry if it is blurry.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I love the smell of Old Books (like most people) and have managed to approximate the ‘odour’ aroma-chemically. I was intrigued to see if I could do it literally (pardon the pun), using an old book - so I set out to do so.

    After sniffing quite a few, I purchased a 130 yr old music book that was in very poor condition (intentionally as not to waste) for £8. The book was a large (ish) one so I could only initially use half. I cut up the first half and placed in a 3L mason jar topped with perfumers alcohol.

    After leaving it for a month (agitating every day) I drained-off and replaced with the remainder of the book using the same liquor and again left for another month. I then poured the 2-folded, pale-yellow liquor (~2.5 L) into a large open bowl and allowed it to evaporate-off for a week.

    After fine filtering, the liquor is now at approx. 0.5L with a darker, reddish golden colour. Again I’ve left the liquor to evaporate down to approx. 0.1 L in the mason jar before bottling it.

    It does indeed smell like Old Books


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #15

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Hi all, I'm not a tincturer by any means, haven't done any since when I was a child and did some orange blossom tincture for a cologne I made for my grandma, it was a kid's experiment but I still remember it smelled divine.

    I was curious what are the easy tinctures that you can do at home, like with everyday stuff, fruits, veggies or spices... For example, red paprika pepper (not dried chillies, the fresh juicy vegetable itself), or green bell peppers ? Can that be done ? What about lemon peels ? Cumin, black pepper, cinnamon etc ? Would like to hear if anyone ever tried things like that and if it would be wise to experiment myself.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    hi, i made a clove tinture. Is stronger than clove bud oil, resinous and more long lasting, witn a fresh spicy undertone.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by German Pujol View Post
    hi, i made a clove tinture. Is stronger than clove bud oil, resinous and more long lasting, witn a fresh spicy undertone.
    Happy to hear that you succeeded with clove buds! When you say resinous, do you mean it's less eugenoly ? I love clove bud EO but the medicinal eugenol note is not my favorite. So if the tincture outputs a well rounded, rich clove scent, I'll go for it.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    You can’t do stuff that has water, has to be dried, because the water content would go bad. I have done a three peppercorn mixture, it has an effervescent quality, and a sneezy pepper effect.
    Ceylon cinnamon is really nice, quite mellow, sweet
    Cardamom is bright and in your face
    Cuban coffee smells just like coffees but stains
    Black caravan tea is lightly smokey and distinct tea
    Coriander is a lighter scent with nuances
    Chamomile sells both just like chamomile and anamalic
    Dried rose petals does smell of roses and is sticky and pink
    Lavender smells of lavender
    Orris root is light but I hope it ripens( might not)
    Frankincense has a very light smell very very sticky, could be varnish
    Celery seed is a light celery seed, feels profound
    Pine sap from several trees- one tree produced a gorgeous aroma- deep blue cheese animal , but the other trees smell of tree, sticky- white ghosting on skin
    I will do more as my ability to find jars improves

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Curious if someone has done a cigarette tobacco tincture, like that Buglers loose cig tobacco stuff? I wonder if it would be safe on the skin in dilution?

    Upon further research it is unsafe for the most part, it's basically impossible to prevent the nicotine from being transferred into the alcohol which can cause irritation and potentially vomiting and other sickness when applied to the skin. Same goes for regular tobacco.

    There are other safe ways via CO2 extraction however I don't own the equipment and that's irrelevant to this thread.

    I just realized that if you're one of those that abide by IFRA regulations for various reasons, tincturing is a pretty much out of the picture considering the levels of the extracted molecules are arbitrary and you might have no idea what you're dealing with.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by chyprefresh View Post

    I just realized that if you're one of those that abide by IFRA regulations for various reasons, tincturing is a pretty much out of the picture considering the levels of the extracted molecules are arbitrary and you might have no idea what you're dealing with.
    This part...was my next thing in mind - to what levels you can control what goes into your tincture and if there are 100% safe tinctures that are not against EU and IFRA regulations. If the answer is a straight NO, then could it be an (expensive) option to always get it certified in a lab ?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I should think it would be extremely easy to remove nicotine from a tincture, provided one can first get the nicotine into a solvent such as ethyl acetate or IPM (if you don't mind it ending up in IPM.) Simply shake in a separatory funnel against acidic water, separate off the water, and repeat once or twice, with the final effort preferably in the case of ethyl acetate being against salt-saturated neutral water

    The nicotine will become positively charged and move from the ethyl acetate or water phase to the lipophilic (ethyl acetate or IPM) phase, while the aromamaterials remain in the lipophilic phase.

    There are other possible solvents as well but those would be convenient, if evaporating off the ethyl acetate or having IPM0-diluted product is convenient.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    I should think it would be extremely easy to remove nicotine from a tincture, provided one can first get the nicotine into a solvent such as ethyl acetate or IPM (if you don't mind it ending up in IPM.) Simply shake in a separatory funnel against acidic water, separate off the water, and repeat once or twice, with the final effort preferably in the case of ethyl acetate being against salt-saturated neutral water

    The nicotine will become positively charged and move from the ethyl acetate or water phase to the lipophilic (ethyl acetate or IPM) phase, while the aromamaterials remain in the lipophilic phase.

    There are other possible solvents as well but those would be convenient, if evaporating off the ethyl acetate or having IPM0-diluted product is convenient.
    That doesn't work. You'd need to remove ethanol from the tincture first.

    And remember:

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    In every case where someone poses as an expert, when their facts are completely wrong, taking naives into something because they don't think they wouldn't know the real thing. What arrogance!

    What a preposterous attitude! And needs to be called on the carpet, EVERYTIME!

  23. #23

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I omitted that step, yes, as a result of my existing thinking on that being related to my tobacco absolute on which I'd already considered doing this and just sharing that, the part of ethanol extractions to absolutes being a very established thing.

    Experimentally you most likely would find you can omit that step when using IPM however, though it wasn't my intention.

    You can have some small percentage of ethanol in water and still partition against IPM. No problem to have many parts of water to each part of IPM as the partition coefficients of the aromamaterials will enormously favor the IPM. But true that wasn't my intention.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I did remove nicotine from my own extract but did not trust any info on internet. Performing the procedure you've described is potentially very dangerous. Whatever acidic water might be...

  25. #25

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    If you don't know what acidic water is in the context of partitioning then you are really not equipped to discuss it, and your claim that the procedure is "dangerous" is complete claptrap.

    If a person reading did not know what was meant, they could ask.

    If any want to know, and I notice you did not ask so you it seems you had no interest in knowing, what is going on in this process is that nicotine may either have a neutral charge or a positive charge. In the tincture it has a neutral charge. When having such a charge, having a "choice" between being in water and something like IPM when these are shaken against each other, the extreme vast majority of the molecules will end up in the IPM phase.

    However when the water has a pH such that the great majority of nicotine molecules would be positively charged, then the reverse is true.

    A beverage or topical-use-acceptable pH is entirely suitable. Citric acid would be an example of an acid to use. Only an idiot would go and use bunches of sulfuric or hydrochloric in such a situation, why you would have thought such a thing was being talked about I can't imagine unless it's how you would do it. I can only assume you did not know just how little acid is needed and/or that it can be a weak acid merely sufficient to protonate a base in aqueous solution. If you did know it then your objection was specious.

    It seems we have a repeated pattern: I object to misinformation (not referring to this thread.) You take the side of the troll or spreader of misinformation. You then fairly promptly go after me on another matter in another thread. Coincidence? Probably not because that's the only time you come after me in such a manner. Other than then, you are a very sound poster. Very sad if that's what your doing, making specious objections for a reason like that.

    If you don't know what's meant, e.g. by "acidic water," ask instead of make a false assertion obviously intended to make me look bad (allegedly presenting very dangerous advice.)

    This kind of thing, btw, is part of how trolls destroy or ruin forums, or ruin enjoyment of a forum, by creating conflicts that proceed to extend past them and can have good members going after each other on unrelated things. Don't feed the trolls, don't defend the trolls, don't have anger at other members because of their position on trolls. In other words, ignore trolls other than when they post disinformation it should be concisely refuted, and then, end (ideally.)

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    I'd have no problem to provide you with acidic solution that combined with nicotine, which is a free base, will produce a compound likely to remain in the non-aqueous phase yielding eventually a product capable of crossing blood-brain barrier. Many times more toxic than nicotine in the free base form. In fact this is what people do at home and die.

    Dilute hydrochloric acid is actually much safer because you can control the reaction.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Your claimed compound creation that would allegedly end up in the lipophilic phase is utter nonsense, let alone now be more toxic than nicotine itself when applied transdermally, let alone reach the brain in the same form or cross better being charged rather than neutral. All absolutely absurd. Btw how much is your education in medicinal chemistry? Obviously about zero.

    There is nothing wrong at all with titrating with dilute HCl, I did not say that using HCl would be idiotic, but that using "bunches" of HCl would be. It would have to be titrated, and depending on what one has that would be an added difficulty. The point is the pH remains modest (no need for less than about 5 though no harm to be somewhat less).

    And it turns out that oh, after all, you do know about acids rather than not knowing what was meant, so you were being disingenuous.

    Done with you for today. Very sad, and very disappointing behavior. You had a good point to start with but had to turn it into crap.

    I challenge you to back up your assertion that "this" (what I was talking or what you alleged above) "is what people do at home and die."

    Really. Show all of us your evidence of a single person creating a complex of a weak acid, e.g. citric acid, with nicotine and partitioning it between IPM and water, taking the IPM phase, and dying.

    If you cannot, then do me a favor and put me on Ignore forever so you won't be tempted to behave like this again. Really.

    Your assertion is so full of it. GOODBYE.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    The effect you are missing is called salting out. Knocking down solubility of protonated nicotine in water. It can be nicely observed, which I did, in a form of a frothy layer between phases - which I analysed for nicotine presence. It isn't a problem in a molecular lab but there are many ways to introduce this mistake in home conditions. Tobacco extracts, especially alcoholic potentially have enough stuff to dissociate in aqueous solution and interfere with nicotine solubility.

    I'm aware there is an easy fix by the way.

    Going back to the thread, just don't tincture tobacco. Especially processed one full of additives potentially screwing up whatever nicotine removal procedure we imagine. Tobacco extracts from just air cured tobacco, I did Virginian, are gorgeous and nothing like cigarette tobacco or commercially available absolutes, but there are really to many risks attached to doing it at home.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    I challenge you to back up your assertion that "this" (what I was talking or what you alleged above) "is what people do at home and die."

    Really. Show all of us your evidence of a single person creating a complex of a weak acid, e.g. citric acid, with nicotine and partitioning it between IPM and water, taking the IPM phase, and dying.

    If you cannot, then do me a favor and put me on Ignore forever so you won't be tempted to behave like this again. Really.
    I see you could not back it up, because of course your sensational attack was pure fabrication.

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    The effect you are missing is called salting out. Knocking down solubility of protonated nicotine in water. It can be nicely observed, which I did, in a form of a frothy layer between phases - which I analysed for nicotine presence. It isn't a problem in a molecular lab but there are many ways to introduce this mistake in home conditions. Tobacco extracts, especially alcoholic potentially have enough stuff to dissociate in aqueous solution and interfere with nicotine solubility.
    No "interface" is retained when partitioning unless of course one has absolutely no idea what one is doing, which frankly given your other statements where you have no idea (detailed above) seems entirely possible.

    I am 100% certain that, as with the above, it is 100% fabrication that you did the same as I said and did your alleged measurement.

    I don't deal with people who post content of zero intellectual honesty and who choose to argue no matter how false or fabricated their statements are.

    Multiple of your statements live in a world where truth does not matter, only agenda or wish to attack, and that world is incompatible with mine. I will have nothing to do with it.

    It is a shame because I have liked you and you have had some good content though I can't say anything has specifically been useful for me (not a knock against the perfuming content.) I do not tolerate those who do as you have chosen nor is there any reason whatsoever why I should.

    It is, almost undoubtedly, a consequence of the disagreement regarding the (IMO) trolling, as you took the opposite side of that just yesterday and the only other time you took into going after me with content that was off the wall had the exact same timing. Sad really for anyone to feel a drive to attack with fabrications because of having disagreed on something completely unrelated. But it is repeated now, so clearly it would just repeat again if I were foolish enough to associate with you further, which you have guaranteed that I will not.

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    Default Re: Tincture experiments, what has been your favorite or most successful?

    Quote Originally Posted by emrego View Post
    This part...was my next thing in mind - to what levels you can control what goes into your tincture and if there are 100% safe tinctures that are not against EU and IFRA regulations. If the answer is a straight NO, then could it be an (expensive) option to always get it certified in a lab ?
    The cost to get a GCMS makes other means more viable such as getting an absolute, Co2 or distillation of said material rendering this a slow and ancient method. The companies or people who have the means will almost never tincture anything.




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