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  1. #91
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Would you say the musicians playing a composition of music are as capable of composing such great music as the author? Or was Beethoven perhaps not quite as great a composer because later in life he suffered from deafness and wasnt able to hear his compositions in the same manner that a perfectly hearing capable person could? This begs the question.....Is Ensar a genius perfumer capable of creating wonderful perfumes without even needing to smell them or a brand owner letting perfumers create for him and riding on their talents?
    Currently wearing: Sova by Slumberhouse

  2. #92
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by solvovir View Post
    Would you say the musicians playing a composition of music are as capable of composing such great music as the author? Or was Beethoven perhaps not quite as great a composer because later in life he suffered from deafness and wasnt able to hear his compositions in the same manner that a perfectly hearing capable person could? This begs the question.....Is Ensar a genius perfumer capable of creating wonderful perfumes without even needing to smell them or a brand owner letting perfumers create for him and riding on their talents?
    I think that all marketing tactics aside Ensar is a master perfumer in the art of natural, oriental compositions. Do I feel he’s a master perfumer in western perfumery? No not at all but for what he does he’s nothing short of a madman and oftentimes genius comes in many different forms and not all of them are pleasant.

    I judge Ensar Oud as a house that is composed of many different players. It’s no secret that ensar hires distillers and that he’s not hand distilling every single batch the house produces. To me, the fact that my all time favorite perfume Tigerlust was composed entirely on paper and it still smelled as good as it does lends to his genius to know exactly what it may smell like simply by understanding and mastering the ingredients used. .

  3. #93

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by solvovir View Post
    Would you say the musicians playing a composition of music are as capable of composing such great music as the author? Or was Beethoven perhaps not quite as great a composer because later in life he suffered from deafness and wasnt able to hear his compositions in the same manner that a perfectly hearing capable person could? This begs the question.....Is Ensar a genius perfumer capable of creating wonderful perfumes without even needing to smell them or a brand owner letting perfumers create for him and riding on their talents?
    I think even if the former is true genius is a little too far. Roudnitska is a genius. It doesn't take genius to distill or purchase musk, rose oil, oud, jasmine, patchouli, and sandalwood and blend them together in differing amounts.

    I know that comes off as dismissive, and to an extent it is, but I'll at least make myself clear. Jasmine oil is one of my favorite smells and is complete by itself. Honestly, the same goes for all the above. You can, and people do, wear sandalwood, rose, patchouli, oud, and would wear musk if it wasn't so hard to come by all by themselves. They're really just completely, complex, natural perfumes. Now while I don't deny there is some finessing required when blending because a heavy hand will result in something brown and muddy in texture, you can hardly compare mixing together beautiful natural ingredients with mixing together and creating accords from what are just abstract ideas of a smell as you do with aroma chemicals. A few of these are good enough to sell almost on their own such as you can the natural oils; javanol, iso e super, hydrocarboresine...these are outliers though. I just think it's hard to compare the two.

  4. #94

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcelello View Post
    This is pretty crazy. I have already purchased both Tigerlust and Crime & Punishment, so I am able to let the fragrances speak for themselves. That said, I may not have purchased either if I knew the "perfumer" of the fragrances hadn't actually blended or even smelled the final products before putting them up for sale.

    Tigerlust is very good, and I am glad I own it. Crime & Punishment in EDP format is great. The Pure Parfum, however, smells bland, is short lived, and comes across rather flat on my skin. It smells like an unfinished product or one that possibly still needs time to macerate. This is the type of thing that could be avoided by the perfumer smelling their fragrance before marketing it and putting it up for sale. Or maybe it is just that way to my nose. As I mentioned in my post last week about the C&P PP, I encourage anyone with differing opinions to weigh in. The last thing I want to do is dissuade anyone from trying something because of my subjective opinion, which in this case is rather harsh. I also have a hunch (and a genuine hope) it just needs more time in the bottle.

    I've had numerous positive experiences with the brand. Before C&P PP, I have appreciated the very great attention to detail and quality ingredients used. Customer service has always been superb. I wanted to say that before I make my next statement, which is that I feel some trust has been lost. Selling a perfume under your name which you have not properly vetted is not impressive in my opinion, nor is particularly ethical. It certainly does not make one a modern-day Mozart. I will continue to follow the brand, because my positive experiences far outweigh this one negative experience, but I won't be blind-buying products from EO in the future.
    This is how I feel about it. Call it zaza house. Or at least say, ensar has not smelled this perfume and this marketing copy is just a really good guess of what it smells like at this point.

  5. #95

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Let’s mix EO1, EO2, and Iris Ghalia. Let’s call it Tigerlust.

    Let’s take EO2 and some raspberries and some other stuffs. Let’s call it a Crime. And make it a punishment for everyone who go against us.

    Write really good marketing copies. Charge a fortune.

    Repeat.

    I’m quite disappointed TBH. All the drama for nothing. At least, just say Thomas or Adam were the nose behind these perfumes.

    I would have thought that the final products would at least be QCed (smelled) by Ensar himself.

  6. #96

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by mahmadna View Post
    Let’s mix EO1, EO2, and Iris Ghalia. Let’s call it Tigerlust.

    Let’s take EO2 and some raspberries and some other stuffs. Let’s call it a Crime. And make it a punishment for everyone who go against us.

    Write really good marketing copies. Charge a fortune.

    Repeat.

    I’m quite disappointed TBH. All the drama for nothing. At least, just say Thomas or Adam were the nose behind these perfumes.

    I would have thought that the final products would at least be QCed (smelled) by Ensar himself.
    I know it's the zeitgiest to praise Ensar's marketing, but is it even good? It just reads as purple prose to me. We get it rare woods, sex, and animalics. Other brands get this across with a paragraph at most, why is Ensar's (who markets the same tired cliches every other brand does) efforts praised when he only does the same thing but takes 5x as long to do it?

  7. #97
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    I just spoke with him and he clarified a few things. He smelled the early stages and rough drafts of each fragrance but the final form he was not able to smell due to customs restrictions in Amman. He can’t fly out and nothing is coming in. I think it speaks volumes to take a chance and release something know that your composition will smell exactly as it should and to have faith in your employees enough to see the vision through. I for one feel this lends his mastery of oriental perfumery.

    One thing people forget is that Ensar paved the way for a lot of newer natural houses to distill oil and compose attars and extrait strength perfumes. If his prose seems cliche like every other brand it’s because Ensar was a trailblazer for this method of description. I for one enjoy his prose. I also enjoy his products and no one can say ensar isn’t at the top of his game in the Oud community. There’s a reason why so many of his oils are considered the best. How many western noses were creating attars and distilling oil in the jungle before ensar? I’d really like to know because to my knowledge he was one of the first.

  8. #98

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Castingshadows View Post
    I just spoke with him and he clarified a few things. He smelled the early stages and rough drafts of each fragrance but the final form he was not able to smell due to customs restrictions in Amman. He can’t fly out and nothing is coming in. I think it speaks volumes to take a chance and release something know that your composition will smell exactly as it should and to have faith in your employees enough to see the vision through. I for one feel this lends his mastery of oriental perfumery.

    One thing people forget is that Ensar paved the way for a lot of newer natural houses to distill oil and compose attars and extrait strength perfumes. If his prose seems cliche like every other brand it’s because Ensar was a trailblazer for this method of description. I for one enjoy his prose. I also enjoy his products and no one can say ensar isn’t at the top of his game in the Oud community. There’s a reason why so many of his oils are considered the best. How many western noses were creating attars and distilling oil in the jungle before ensar? I’d really like to know because to my knowledge he was one of the first.
    No I'm talking about he uses the same marketing that western brands do that came out way before Ensar. Look at Tom Ford for a classic example (Black Orchid smells like a mans crotch....right Tommy). I have no doubt his oud oils are fantastic, just his compositions are in question. Distilling is much more a craft than an art. Anyways, I don't think Ensar paved the way for anyone I think it was natural and going to happen with the market craving oud. Can you say anything that Ensar has done that helped anyone else? He runs a business and that's fine he doesn't need to help anyone, and I think your claim is false.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Castingshadows View Post
    I just spoke with him and he clarified a few things. He smelled the early stages and rough drafts of each fragrance but the final form he was not able to smell due to customs restrictions in Amman. He can’t fly out and nothing is coming in. I think it speaks volumes to take a chance and release something know that your composition will smell exactly as it should and to have faith in your employees enough to see the vision through. I for one feel this lends his mastery of oriental perfumery.

    One thing people forget is that Ensar paved the way for a lot of newer natural houses to distill oil and compose attars and extrait strength perfumes. If his prose seems cliche like every other brand it’s because Ensar was a trailblazer for this method of description. I for one enjoy his prose. I also enjoy his products and no one can say ensar isn’t at the top of his game in the Oud community. There’s a reason why so many of his oils are considered the best. How many western noses were creating attars and distilling oil in the jungle before ensar? I’d really like to know because to my knowledge he was one of the first.
    thats the way I understood it as well. ensar came up with the recipe, and kruger assembled the product.
    Currently wearing: Sova by Slumberhouse

  10. #100

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by solvovir View Post
    castingshadows is correct. i just asked ensar and he said the same thing. he hasnt had a chance to try the final product since lockdown.
    I KNEW IT! When I emailed Adam asking why my full bottle smelled a lot different than the tester sample purchased a few weeks prior, he said ďmaybe the tester was the PP by accidentĒ sooo, I ordered a FB of the PP and it should be here within the hour. I doubt it smells exactly like the tester but weíll find out today.

  11. #101

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Here’s the difference between Beethoven and Ensar. When Beethoven went(mostly) deaf, he had been playing piano for so long that he had 100% internalized every aspect of the piano. A440 stays A440 for as long as physics is stable. Ensar composes entirely from natural distillations. Each batch has major variation. A recipe here is not at all like a composition on the page(and even great pieces of music are interpreted by different orchestras to varying effect).

    If I paid $800 to see the London Symphony and got the Birmingham Understudies in their place with no advance notice, I’d be pissed. I’m not saying that these perfumes would be better had ensar checked and tweaked them all. Adam and Thomas may be better perfumers than he is for all I know. I just think the whole ad copy about placing E02 on his gravestone or whatever and C&P being his magnum opus is revealed to be absolutely insincere if he couldn’t wait a few months to smell it himself before putting it on sale.

    I’ve waited years to finish a piece of music that wasn’t the way I wanted it. And that’s my livelihood as well. I wish I had thought to let someone else finish my record, Jack the price up to the skies, while calling my contemporaries a bunch of frauds and proclaiming myself the Beethoven of rock and roll. Come to think of it, I actually really wish I had thought of it. Maybe ensar is a genius after all. ;-)

  12. #102
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Are there other polarizing perfumers and distillers like Ensar or is he a breed of his own?

  13. #103
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    Here’s the difference between Beethoven and Ensar. When Beethoven went(mostly) deaf, he had been playing piano for so long that he had 100% internalized every aspect of the piano. A440 stays A440 for as long as physics is stable. Ensar composes entirely from natural distillations. Each batch has major variation. A recipe here is not at all like a composition on the page(and even great pieces of music are interpreted by different orchestras to varying effect).

    If I paid $800 to see the London Symphony and got the Birmingham Understudies in their place with no advance notice, I’d be pissed. I’m not saying that these perfumes would be better had ensar checked and tweaked them all. Adam and Thomas may be better perfumers than he is for all I know. I just think the whole ad copy about placing E02 on his gravestone or whatever and C&P being his magnum opus is revealed to be absolutely insincere if he couldn’t wait a few months to smell it himself before putting it on sale.

    I’ve waited years to finish a piece of music that wasn’t the way I wanted it. And that’s my livelihood as well. I wish I had thought to let someone else finish my record, Jack the price up to the skies, while calling my contemporaries a bunch of frauds and proclaiming myself the Beethoven of rock and roll. Come to think of it, I actually really wish I had thought of it. Maybe ensar is a genius after all. ;-)
    I work with guys who work under Hans Zimmer and this goes on in his company all the time. It's like a composing sweatshop where he has guys writing for him yet it all goes out under his name. Haha

  14. #104
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Oud Dude View Post
    I work with guys who work under Hans Zimmer and this goes on in his company all the time. It's like a composing sweatshop where he has guys writing for him yet it all goes out under his name. Haha
    The same goes for just about any major artist.

    Takashi Murakami for example has over 30 artists who work with him and a handful he trusts to actually paint his designs. He rarely touches a canvas. This goes for just about every major oil painter over the last thousand years. Students have always been used to do the physical work while the composer creates the design. It’s just how it is which is why I don’t see anything wrong anyone in perfumery doing this as well.

  15. #105

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    I definitely hear what you guys are saying about the factory approach to the arts... and I certainly know a ton of people that do soundtrack work and ghostwriting. But Ensar’s whole Schtick is being an artisan. I think this is just a bridge too far after all the talk. I don’t blame y’all for not giving a shit about it. I think I’m just over it. I’ll stick to Sultan Pasha amd Bogue. I’ll take the madness of being obsessed over the factory approach any day.

  16. #106

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    I don’t care about anything but the scent. BUT My TL full bottle was different than my sample. When I asked Adam he said they might have sent the PP tester by accident. I now have a PP order coming today so we shall see if it’s that...or batch inconsistencies.

  17. #107
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    I definitely hear what you guys are saying about the factory approach to the arts... and I certainly know a ton of people that do soundtrack work and ghostwriting. But Ensar’s whole Schtick is being an artisan. I think this is just a bridge too far after all the talk. I don’t blame y’all for not giving a shit about it. I think I’m just over it. I’ll stick to Sultan Pasha amd Bogue. I’ll take the madness of being obsessed over the factory approach any day.
    I will also continue to support Sultan Pasha and anyone that makes a great finished product regardless of what it takes to get it to that point. Maybe I see things differently but I really don’t care what approach anyone takes. This is one aspect I haven’t quite figured out with perfumery and maybe it’s because of the field I’m in and what I do for a living but I’ve never seen another industry where the how and why can be more important than the end result.

  18. #108

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Castingshadows View Post
    I will also continue to support Sultan Pasha and anyone that makes a great finished product regardless of what it takes to get it to that point. Maybe I see things differently but I really don’t care what approach anyone takes. This is one aspect I haven’t quite figured out with perfumery and maybe it’s because of the field I’m in and what I do for a living but I’ve never seen another industry where the how and why can be more important than the end result.
    Exactly. But it did affect my bottle of Tigerlust so I’m a little upset.

  19. #109

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Castingshadows View Post
    I will also continue to support Sultan Pasha and anyone that makes a great finished product regardless of what it takes to get it to that point. Maybe I see things differently but I really don’t care what approach anyone takes. This is one aspect I haven’t quite figured out with perfumery and maybe it’s because of the field I’m in and what I do for a living but I’ve never seen another industry where the how and why can be more important than the end result.
    I think you’re being a little reductive. You were talking about DIY in another thread. Seems like a little transparency and honesty in any art form is important, in the right context.

    More to the point, how much of what Ensar says can you honestly take seriously after him calling all the other perfumers frauds and claiming that C&P was one perfume that would prove his genius and HE HADNT EVEN SMELLED IT!!! Come on. Even Hans Zimmer approves final products before Batman crashes through a skylight.

  20. #110
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    I think you’re being a little reductive. You were talking about DIY in another thread. Seems like a little transparency and honesty in any art form is important, in the right context.

    More to the point, how much of what Ensar says can you honestly take seriously after him calling all the other perfumers frauds and claiming that C&P was one perfume that would prove his genius and HE HADNT EVEN SMELLED IT!!! Come on. Even Hans Zimmer approves final products before Batman crashes through a skylight.

    Yes I grew up in the punk/hardcore scene that was based around DIY ethos. I don’t feel a pandemic that screwed up the logistics of releasing a perfume goes against any moral compass in the grand scheme of what Ensar Oud as a house really is. If he wasn’t transparent then why did he say anything at all?

    Like I said, perfumery isn’t something I fully understand yet as I’m still a newcomer. I know that serious collectors such as yourself see things differently than I do. My views could one day change I’m sure. I appreciate your point of view as well and I hope none of what I say comes across as being standoffish in any way. I am done with this conversation though and I thank you for bringing very important issues to light.

  21. #111
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    i think this will blow over like everything else. if you enjoy the perfumes then continue to do so. personally i did not like eo no2, tigerlust, and have not yet tried C&P because of the comparisons to eo no2. but eo no1/sultan leather attar and sultan rose attar are so good i cant imagine not letting myself enjoy them because of house drama.
    Currently wearing: Sova by Slumberhouse

  22. #112

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Dothraki View Post
    I donít care about anything but the scent. BUT My TL full bottle was different than my sample. When I asked Adam he said they might have sent the PP tester by accident. I now have a PP order coming today so we shall see if itís that...or batch inconsistencies.
    Tried the PP version. At first it smelled more similar to the Tester but then....all but Completely disappeared within seconds. I have to touch my nose to my skin to smell it. WTF is going on here!?!?

  23. #113

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Castingshadows View Post
    Yes I grew up in the punk/hardcore scene that was based around DIY ethos. I don’t feel a pandemic that screwed up the logistics of releasing a perfume goes against any moral compass in the grand scheme of what Ensar Oud as a house really is. If he wasn’t transparent then why did he say anything at all?

    Like I said, perfumery isn’t something I fully understand yet as I’m still a newcomer. I know that serious collectors such as yourself see things differently than I do. My views could one day change I’m sure. I appreciate your point of view as well and I hope none of what I say comes across as being standoffish in any way. I am done with this conversation though and I thank you for bringing very important issues to light.
    Hey I hope it doesn’t come across that I’m at all upset with you, castingshadows! I do see that my posts come across as angry. Shit! Sorry. I like talking to you on here and I’m definitely not trying to come for you or anything. My apologies if i got shouty through posts! All love.

  24. #114
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    Hey I hope it doesn’t come across that I’m at all upset with you, castingshadows! I do see that my posts come across as angry. Shit! Sorry. I like talking to you on here and I’m definitely not trying to come for you or anything. My apologies if i got shouty through posts! All love.
    Hey no worries at my dude! I enjoy reading your posts and your knowledge you have on here and it’s been a great asset for my nose and understanding what fragrances I might like. It’s definitely all love on my end as well!

  25. #115
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    I definitely hear what you guys are saying about the factory approach to the arts... and I certainly know a ton of people that do soundtrack work and ghostwriting. But Ensar’s whole Schtick is being an artisan. I think this is just a bridge too far after all the talk. I don’t blame y’all for not giving a shit about it. I think I’m just over it. I’ll stick to Sultan Pasha amd Bogue. I’ll take the madness of being obsessed over the factory approach any day.
    Like most things I can certainly see both sides of the "issue" and I actually lean a little more in your direction in this instance because as you said, Ensar's original ad copy was so over-the-top aggressive and he was lobbing grenades left and right trying to defend this image of the lone wolf artisan doing it right when everyone else was a faker and scoundrel doing it wrong. It is a little bit of a head scratcher then to read that he hadn't been able to directly work on or approve the fragrance in question.

    One of my friends is a well-known indy perfumer with his own brand and he's so busy with the business of supporting his line, traveling, doing bespoke and functional perfumery projects that many of his formulas are written away from the materials and sent to his assistant to do the basic blending. He doesn't prefer doing it that way but he also doesn't have the hours in his life to sit and blend all day anymore. None of his marketing materials attack, defend or mention any sort of elevated levels of artistic purity on his behalf- which makes it all a bit easier to roll with.

  26. #116

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Mak-7 View Post
    Did anyone try Olde Hindi attar?
    I have this on now. Itís a very nice sandalwood with a backdrop of oud. Thatís the main thing Iím getting. A lot more...pleasant than I thought it would be. Was hoping for something a little crazier.

  27. #117
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    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Reading about Ensar’s “composition” reminds me of the story behind Sensemilla by La Via del Profumo that was reported by Luca Turin in The Guide. LT writes:

    “I emailed Dubrana to congratulate him on having composed such an unusual green lavender. This is where the story gets weird. First, he let me know the perfume contains no lavender at all, and is composed from hemp absolute, cocoa, neroli, tuberose, narcissus, and cedar. When I next congratulated him on having done for lavender what Guerlain supposedly did for Nahema, the "rose without rose," Dubrana explained to me that he had not smelled the perfume, because due to some nasal congestion he has been anosmic for weeks. For the record, the last time someone did this was 1946 when Jean Carles lost his sense of smell and composed Ma Griffe. Dubrana said the formula just came to him and he wrote it down quickly. But everyone seems to like it, he added. As indeed they should. It is now my new "lavender" of reference, and in all respects as close to a miracle as perfumery gets.”

    It does seem so strange to us outsiders that perfumes can be composed, produced, and then sold without the perfumer actually smelling it. Are they truly able to just work from a formula (knowing their ingredients) and imagine the smell? Perhaps some resident artisans here at BN can enlighten us?

    For what it’s worth, I tried Crime and Punishment EDP from a sample for the first time yesterday. I’m getting a beautiful peppery musk that seems quite linear and solid. Looking forward to a full wearing.

  28. #118

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Nobody has ever created a scent like EO1, EO2, TL or C&P from the hundreds or thousands I’ve smelled. Completely unique.

  29. #119

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Dothraki View Post
    Nobody has ever created a scent like EO1, EO2, TL or C&P from the hundreds or thousands I’ve smelled. Completely unique.
    I’d follow you down the rabbit hole with EO1 & EO2... but C&P & Tigerlust are certainly not unique if you’ve smelled EO1 & EO2. They’re almost flankers to 1 & 2(which I don’t necessarily mind).

    It’s funny that Durbana story doesn’t bother me at all. Maybe it’s because he didn’t put Turin in a headlock and tell him he’s not worthy of the best scent that inspiration ever plucked from the heavens to put in His own brilliant mind. Durbana was like “People seem to like it”— thats speaks volumes to the difference between them, IMO. I think the price point makes a difference too. Ensar’s work is far out of my means as it is. So I save up to buy testers decants and samples whenever I can. I love EO1/EO2/Sultan Leather/Iris Ghalia and at least 5 of the 9 ouds that I’ve sampled from Ensar. BUT. It’s very hard to square his over the top description of the scent with the fact that he hasn’t smelled it. It partly feels like being scammed. It partly feels unbelievablY corny! Come on, man, you don’t even Quality Control this stuff! Ease up on the insane claims. I mean we talk about corporate/factory approach to art but Tom Ford is notoriously picky about which iteration of a formula goes out on his namesake products.

    I’m not gonna lie, I’ll still be curious no matter what ensar does. I’d just prefer he didn’t piss on my back and call it pure mountain rain!

  30. #120

    Default Re: All Things Ensar Oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    I’m not gonna lie, I’ll still be curious no matter what ensar does. I’d just prefer he didn’t piss on my back and call it pure mountain rain!
    Hilarious, and pretty much sums up my feelings on the house at this point.




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