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  1. #1
    New Member Mdutkiew's Avatar
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    Default Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Hello Perfumers,

    by today for my perfumes I was using Ethanol 95%.

    I believe Ethanol 95% is good but Perfumer Alcohol is more professional.

    Therefore I want to create on my own Perfumer Alcohol that will consist of:

    1. Ethanol (denatured)
    2. Isopropyl Myristate (IPM)
    3. Monopropylene glycol aka Propylene Glycol (PG)

    Can you tell me what ratio use for creating Perfumer Alcohol?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    There almost cannot be this many very-few-posts members ALL in the last few days posting about how they want to add IPM, DPG, water, Triethyl Citrate, etc.

    Unless some nut getting a lot of views just started putting this out on Youtube. Otherwise, too much of a coincidence.

    NO.

    You do NOT need some special alcohol beyond perfumer's alcohol -- which is simply 190 proof alcohol denatured in particular ways -- or pure 95% alcohol as you already have.

    Do NOT add IPM or Propylene Glycol.

    Last time for the next 30 days at least I will be responding to utter nonsense about adding these things.

    There is a sticky and there are a bunch of threads here at the top already telling you this. I mean four out of the top eight! That is insane.

    Either you did not do 60 seconds of your own research on this forum or you are deliberately twisting our tails to get a response.

  3. #3
    New Member Mdutkiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    There almost cannot be this many very-few-posts members ALL in the last few days posting about how they want to add IPM, DPG, water, Triethyl Citrate, etc.

    Unless some nut getting a lot of views just started putting this out on Youtube. Otherwise, too much of a coincidence.

    NO.

    You do NOT need some special alcohol beyond perfumer's alcohol -- which is simply 190 proof alcohol denatured in particular ways -- or pure 95% alcohol as you already have.

    Do NOT add IPM or Propylene Glycol.

    Over, under, and out.

    And last time for the next 30 days at least I will be responding to such utter nonsense.

    There is a sticky and there are a bunch of threads here at the top already telling you this.

    Either you did not do 60 seconds of your own research on this forum or you are deliberately twisting our tails to get a response.
    Hello Bill,

    You are talking about 190 proof Perfumer Alcohol aka Ethanol 95% I believe meanwhile I am talking about Perfumer Alcohol that is used by most professional perfumers and consist of: Ethanol (denatured), Isopropyl Myristate (IPM) and Monopropylene glycol (PG).

    Look here: https://mistralni.co.uk/products/perfumers-alcohol - there are used 3 main ingredients for perfumers alcohol!

    So you advice to use just Ethanol 95% so why so many perfumers uses Ethanol extended by IPM and PG.

    ... and yes, I have read many BaseNotes articles about it and cannot find formula for creating professional Perfumer Alcohol with IPM and PG as it is being sold by MISTRAL.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    You were already correctly advised above, in the sticky, and in many other threads including many at the top presently. I will not argue with you, which I believe from your content is what you are here for.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdutkiew View Post
    Hello Bill,

    You are talking about 190 proof Perfumer Alcohol aka Ethanol 95% I believe meanwhile I am talking about Perfumer Alcohol that is used by most professional perfumers and consist of: Ethanol (denatured), Isopropyl Myristate (IPM) and Monopropylene glycol (PG).

    Look here: https://mistralni.co.uk/products/perfumers-alcohol - there are used 3 main ingredients for perfumers alcohol!

    So you advice to use just Ethanol 95% so why so many perfumers uses Ethanol extended by IPM and PG.

    ... and yes, I have read many BaseNotes articles about it and cannot find formula for creating professional Perfumer Alcohol with IPM and PG as it is being sold by MISTRAL.
    That solution is for perfumers who work neat, so basically for finished formulas only, not experimenting. It's basically worthless to you in your early stage as an 'experimenter'. All you need is DPG for diluting stuff into smaller containers and ethanol for diluting into your perfumes, you do not need everything mixed together at this stage.

  6. #6
    New Member Mdutkiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    Do what you want. Goodbye.
    Hi Bill,

    do not be that way. I am new and seek advice and you turn back from me. Help me by giving good advice or correct me if I am wrong.

    At least tell me what is in your opinion difference between Ethanol 95% and Perfumer Alcohol sold by MISTRAL here https://mistralni.co.uk/products/perfumers-alcohol.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    It also claims in its title it is "Perfumers Alcohol - Base for blending fragrance oils to make perfumes and colognes."

    And also,

    lt is also used in the production of DIFFUSER OILS.

    How to make your own DIFFUSER OIL:
    30% Fragrance oil
    60-65% DPG (buy DPG)
    5-10% Perfumers alcohol (Buy Perfumers alcohol)
    To make diffuser oil blend the fragrance oil with the DPG until clear. Add Perfumers alcohol to reduce viscosity to desired thickness.
    This is an example of their advice on making a perfume:

    Amaze Perfume

    2 cups distilled water
    3 tablespoons perfumers alcohol
    5 drops hypericum perforatum essential oil (St. John’s wort)
    10 drops cypress essential/fragrance oil
    10 drops rosemary essential/fragrance oil
    I write the above not for the OP, as he already got the correct advice and rejects it, and the forum has it everywhere already, but for any unfortunate who may read this thread and think there was any merit.

    Just because a retailer sells something and calls it "perfumer's alcohol" does not mean any real perfumer uses it.

    Perfumer's Apprentice also sells some so-labeled stuff which is garbaged up. Probably many do, so watch out.

  8. #8
    New Member Mdutkiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by chyprefresh View Post
    That solution is for perfumers who work neat, so basically for finished formulas only, not experimenting. It's basically worthless to you in your early stage as an 'experimenter'. All you need is DPG for diluting stuff into smaller containers and ethanol for diluting into your perfumes, you do not need everything mixed together at this stage.
    Hello chyprefresh.

    this is the PERFECT ANSWER for me! Thanks for that advice. You are good man.

    Nevertheless I must find this formula to check this kind of solvent, because I am curious how it works with the blend.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdutkiew View Post

    At least tell me what is in your opinion difference between Ethanol 95% and Perfumer Alcohol sold by MISTRAL here https://mistralni.co.uk/products/perfumers-alcohol.
    Perfumer's Alcohol, by the ordinary definition, not a particular retailer's proprietary product, is simply 95% alcohol that has minimal denaturants added, such as Bitrex, so that beverage alcohol tax doesn't have to be paid. It has no added materials affecting perfuming properties such as IPM, DPG, fixatives, etc.

    Mistral's product is garbaged up from the standpoint of making perfume. It may well be suited to the stated purpose of mixing fragrance oils, which are not perfume ingredients, or making products for diffusers.

    EDIT: I wrote the above prior to your above posting of determination to continue on that utterly wrong path. Since you are determined no matter what facts are presented, it was a waste of my and everyone's time and so I am departing this thread now.

    Perhaps outcomes are your way of learning, and if so there is nothing wrong with that. Outcomes will prove what has been said here correct, provided you do choose to compare against alcohol alone as well.

  10. #10
    New Member Mdutkiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    Perfumer's Alcohol, by the ordinary definition, not a particular retailer's proprietary product, is simply 95% alcohol that has minimal denaturants added, such as Bitrex, so that beverage alcohol tax doesn't have to be paid. It has no added materials affecting perfuming properties such as IPM, DPG, fixatives, etc.

    Mistral's product is garbaged up from the standpoint of making perfume. It may well be suited to the stated purpose of mixing fragrance oils, which are not perfume ingredients, or making products for diffusers.

    EDIT: I wrote the above prior to your above posting of determination to continue on that utterly wrong path. Since you are determined no matter what facts are presented, it was a waste of my and everyone's time and so I am departing this thread now.

    Perhaps outcomes are your way of learning, and if so there is nothing wrong with that. Outcomes will prove what has been said here correct, provided you do choose to compare against alcohol alone as well.
    Hello Bill,

    I am glad you came back to me and thanks for your time spent on my thread.

    I know what you mean but not only MISTRAL sells extended PA but also PELLWALL who makes MISTRAL blend - look here: https://pellwall.com/shop/ingredient...ry/liquids/pa/

    Besides Chyprefresh told me that such extended PA is only used for finished parfum.

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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdutkiew View Post
    Hello chyprefresh.

    this is the PERFECT ANSWER for me! Thanks for that advice. You are good man.

    Nevertheless I must find this formula to check this kind of solvent, because I am curious how it works with the blend.
    Just trying to help, the reason why you should never buy that pre-mixed stuff is because every perfume is different, IPM is not even necessary in perfumes and can make it very oily and greasy on the skin. The distilled water thing is still an experiment of mine, I do not recommend it beyond 5% of the final formula, even though I think a little more could potentially be beneficial dependent on the situation. But for now all you need is ethanol and dpg for experiments with trial formulas, take it easy.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdutkiew View Post
    Hello Perfumers,

    by today for my perfumes I was using Ethanol 95%.

    I believe Ethanol 95% is good but Perfumer Alcohol is more professional.

    Therefore I want to create on my own Perfumer Alcohol that will consist of:

    1. Ethanol (denatured)
    2. Isopropyl Myristate (IPM)
    3. Monopropylene glycol aka Propylene Glycol (PG)

    Can you tell me what ratio use for creating Perfumer Alcohol?
    Part of your confusion is a result of a false assumption.

    Perfumer's alcohol, as is normally understood, is does NOT contain IPM or PG.

    It is simply high purity denatured alcohol. In the case of SDA 40b (Special Denatured Alcohol), t-butanol (0.12%) and trace Bitrex are used as denaturants (40b indicates the denaturant. Other types of SDA contain different denaturants, for example SDA 30 is denatured with methanol.)

    The real confusion I see on this forum and elsewhere is a result of the water content.

    You can readily find SDA 40b of BOTH 190 proof (95% ethanol/~5% water, with the remainder t-butanol and trace Bitrex) AND 200 proof (99.88%, with the remainder being t-butanol and trace Bitrex) labeled as 'Perfumer's Alcohol'.

    This question then expectedly arises: do you add water to the 200 proof stuff to make it 190 proof?

    What I suggest is to pick a proof and stick with it, as for the most part, the 5% water is inconsequential, though is some very special cases it might matter.

    Remember that of the two, 190 proof will generally keep better, i.e., the water content will remain the same over time. 200 proof alcohol will slowly pick up water over time until it reaches 95%/5% water.

  13. #13
    New Member Mdutkiew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by tensor9 View Post
    Part of your confusion is a result of a false assumption.

    Perfumer's alcohol, as is normally understood, is does NOT contain IPM or PG.

    It is simply high purity denatured alcohol. In the case of SDA 40b (Special Denatured Alcohol), t-butanol (0.12%) and trace Bitrex are used as denaturants (40b indicates the denaturant. Other types of SDA contain different denaturants, for example SDA 30 is denatured with methanol.)

    The real confusion I see on this forum and elsewhere is a result of the water content.

    You can readily find SDA 40b of BOTH 190 proof (95% ethanol/~5% water, with the remainder t-butanol and trace Bitrex) AND 200 proof (99.88%, with the remainder being t-butanol and trace Bitrex) labeled as 'Perfumer's Alcohol'.

    This question then expectedly arises: do you add water to the 200 proof stuff to make it 190 proof?

    What I suggest is to pick a proof and stick with it, as for the most part, the 5% water is inconsequential, though is some very special cases it might matter.

    Remember that of the two, 190 proof will generally keep better, i.e., the water content will remain the same over time. 200 proof alcohol will slowly pick up water over time until it reaches 95%/5% water.
    Thanks tensor9 for this amazing explanation. Now I better understand PA - that water thing as you noticed was misleading me and many people on this amazing forum.

    The reason I raised this issue is that recently I have read that PG added to PA helps to control the evaporation of the alcohol so that it does not flash off too quickly. I believe that if you make very fine fragrance that will evaporate quickly will loose its attractivness therefore from the beginning of my experimentations I want to achieve at once fine parfum and long lasting. That is why extended PA by at least some small % of PG can help for longer lasting by cutting evaporation and such small % does not have to make fragrance to be oily on skin. IPM - I do not know how absorbtion can help but some people add it to PA.

    My goal is to create fine parfum that will last 8 hours on skin.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    There almost cannot be this many very-few-posts members ALL in the last few days posting about how they want to add IPM, DPG, water, Triethyl Citrate, etc.

    Unless some nut getting a lot of views just started putting this out on Youtube. Otherwise, too much of a coincidence.

    NO.

    You do NOT need some special alcohol beyond perfumer's alcohol -- which is simply 190 proof alcohol denatured in particular ways -- or pure 95% alcohol as you already have.

    Do NOT add IPM or Propylene Glycol.

    Last time for the next 30 days at least I will be responding to utter nonsense about adding these things.

    There is a sticky and there are a bunch of threads here at the top already telling you this. I mean four out of the top eight! That is insane.

    Either you did not do 60 seconds of your own research on this forum or you are deliberately twisting our tails to get a response.
    I think one of the reasons people have been wondering including additives such as water and IPM is reduce the perceived rapid evaporation of the fragrance from the skin since it is well known that the ethanol evaporated fast, maybe it is suspected that it drags the fragrance with it into the air, faster too. I was in contact with a perfumer who purposefully included a lot of IPM into his ethanol-based fragrances for what I suspect to be the reason I mentioned.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    IPM has fixative effect. More fixative effect is not always good. For example top notes can be squashed.

    We all start from lack of knowledge. Wanting to add fixed amounts of (whatever) as some supposed improvement to alcohol alone, for every formula one wants to make or most formulas, as one's supposed "Perfumer's Alcohol," is a lack of knowledge.

    Continuing in it after receiving plenty of unanimous advice against, after asking for the advice, plus it being in the sticky etc is idiocy. (Not pointing to any specific person, just any who do it.)

    Having a good formula, which is achieved by coming up with a well chosen set of aromamaterials and amounts, or being well on the way to it but observing particular issues one wants to address, specific additions such as fixatives can of course make sense. No one has ever disputed that formula-specific dosing of fixative materials is often required.

    Myself, I don't use IPM for that but one could.

    Very different from thinking one should have an alcohol formula with fixed amounts of it.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    "Perfumer's alcohol" is just a marketing term for SDA40b 95% ethanol.

    Some places sell "perfumer's alcohol" that's SDA40b with other stuff mixed into. That just confuses the issue. What they're actually selling is their own house-made blend of ethanol + additives that they like.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    ^^^^^^^^^^

    THIS.

    Sometimes, when you can't sell much of your junk by an accurate name, give it a name that makes it sound highly desirable.

    E.g., "Perfumer's Alcohol" for your own blend loaded down with gunk that has zero chance of being balanced for each formula the customer has, or "Key Accord" for a Givaudan formula you found for free that was intended only to demo an ingredient which you try to sell as a general purpose base.

    Perfumer's Alcohol? Obviously gotta have that. Amber Key Accord? I need that!

    Etc.

    Only buy perfumer's alcohol that isn't garbaged up. It should only have alcohol and the denaturants, which are in trace quantity and do not affect perfuming qualities. But do you need it if you already have pure 190 or 200 proof ethanol? Nope. It's just a way of buying ethanol without paying beverage alcohol tax and without having other denaturants that would adversely affect perfuming, such as methanol.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 30th June 2020 at 03:07 PM.

  18. #18
    Super Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    This perfumers alcohol is good https://mistralni.co.uk/products/perfumers-alcohol
    I use it for years.

    If you have access to pure ethanol, use it.

    There is no need for water in either case.
    Practically perfumers alcohol is a way to sell you the heavily regulated product called ethanol.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by ourmess View Post
    "Perfumer's alcohol" is just a marketing term for SDA40b 95% ethanol.
    Again, this is not strictly true; hence the source of confusion.

    I would say from a cursory search, 200 proof SDA 40b "Perfumer's Alcohol" is easier to find than 190 proof.

    My feeling is that this should be addressed in the big sticky post.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Agreed, I have written 190 above but did not wish to imply there is not 200 as well.

    Also, there are several SDA's which may be used.

    Any of 39B, 39C, 40, 40A, 40B, and 40C may be used for perfumes and perfume tinctures, toilet waters, and colognes.

    Additionally, one may create 38B denatured alcohol, acceptable for perfume, from ethyl alcohol by adding to each 100 gallons of alcohol at least 10 pounds total of one or more of the following materials:

    Alpha terpineol. Anethole, Anise oil, Bay oil (myrcia oil), Benzaldehyde, Bergamot oil, Bitter almond oil, Camphor, Cedar leaf oil, Chlorothymol, Cinnamic aldehyde, Cinnamon oil, Citronella oil natural. Clove oil, etc.

    In many cases there's a requirement that the material be NF. So, one might be in violation from relying on your own bergamot if it's not NF, etc.

    It likely requires a license and ongoing documentation to take this route.

    Full list at https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...1.1.17&idno=27

    At least in the US, denatured alcohol is a little complicated. It is legal to use denatured alcohol and not pay beverage tax, but each type is legal for only certain uses. Additionally, purchase of more than 5 gallons per year requires a license.

  21. #21
    Super Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/310...alcohol-online this might be interesting to some

  22. #22

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    To be fair, 200 proof ethanol will happily turn itself into 190 proof ethanol for you. =)

  23. #23

    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Yet near full bottles of 200 proof don't go to overflowing in any period of time I've had available to observe, nor does level creep up noticeably, such as by 5%, when less full.

    (I'm not saying there is no absorption, just that bulk water doesn't get added so rapidly or easily when a container is usually sealed.)

  24. #24
    Super Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    and then you get it and you want to ship a perfume abroad, and you read the regulation, and it feels like you are committing felony

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Perfumer Alcohol formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    Yet near full bottles of 200 proof don't go to overflowing in any period of time I've had available to observe, nor does level creep up noticeably, such as by 5%, when less full.

    (I'm not saying there is no absorption, just that bulk water doesn't get added so rapidly or easily when a container is usually sealed.)
    Agreed. Over a good amount of time of opening and reopening a larger container of 200 proof, being sloppy about closing the lid and such, you might see some uptake of water (with the total volume partially offset by evaporation of ethanol), but if you're rather careful, for normal use, it's not that bad.




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