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  1. Re: Fleuressence; as bad as it’s reputation suggests?

    I did get excellent value for money with my one trial of that. Of course if needing to reproduce formulas in future years, the same problem would exist. But I completely expect my Indian natural...
  2. Re: cheapest supplier of small quantity synthetics ?

    There are free samples and then there are sample amounts that one pays modest amounts for.

    All three US retailers allow buying amounts small enough for one to sample the materials.

    Perfumer...
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    Re: Jasmin Base + Jasmin Absolute

    You're very welcome, Mike!
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    Re: Jasmin Base + Jasmin Absolute

    Yes but I think I would start at around 20:1 because even that may provide benefits you find worthwhile.
  5. Re: Fleuressence; as bad as it’s reputation suggests?

    Whether good or bad, anyone relying on these could be and most likely will find themselves in the same situation as the Creating Perfume customers who relied on those accords for their formulas. A...
  6. Re: for lovers of vintage - perfume restoration! Any ideas?

    Because the rubber stopper had fallen to pieces and contaminated it:

    Filtration d’une Eau de Vent Vert (Germaine Cellier pour Pierre Balmain) contaminée par des fragments du bouchon en caoutchouc,...
  7. Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    I like it but have not used it past 10%, more typically 5% and I tend to like to combine with Robertet's Fraction B. It's not moldy to me personally but those things are probably very individual.
  8. Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    Firmenich actually calls Clearwood "the new Iso-E Super" in some blurb article, and provides a formula using it at 18%.
  9. Re: for lovers of vintage - perfume restoration! Any ideas?

    After trying one's hand at converting spoiled milk back to fresh, or a cooked steak back to raw, one might try next to truly restore perfumes that have degraded.

    All one could ever actually do,...
  10. Re: Do you smell Hedione, Polysantol faint or strong?

    Also try making additions to a formula you know starting at trace level and A/B the versions with and without.

    E.g., I have no idea (haven't tried) what I'd say about Exaltone at 0.002% dilution...
  11. Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    To people who are anosmic to or have greatly blunted perception of a material when at high strength, and/or do not care that the wearer may smell strongly of it to some at 20 feet or more, that...
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    Re: Sclareolide

    Thank you!
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    Re: Sclareolide

    Just as an odd fact: this used to be used as a nutritional supplement fat-burner and stimulant, very widely used. I have no idea, other than price going way up, why it essentially disappeared from...
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    Re: Only base note perfume.

    Not counting fake or "extended" (IMO) ouds, I think the going price for Agarwood sold as such is roughly $700/oz. If you paid far less than this I'd doubt it is authentic agarwood.

    I have bought...
  15. Re: How to make clone oils last longer - why doesn't my clone oil last longer?

    I tried rum but it didn't work very well.

    Thank you!!



    oops!

    You're right!
  16. Re: How to make clone oils last longer - why doesn't my clone oil last longer?

    How I to make my clone oil last longer? I have already added the water, glycerin, and propylene glycol but still it is not enough. What fixative do I need. I saw on Youtube this is the big secret of...
  17. Re: Solubility of Calone, Cetalox, Veramoss and Ambroxide in EtOH

    No, provided that the temperature is reasonable. If using a water bath, I recommend no more than lightly "steaming" (vapors coming off of it.)

    If one has a hotplate with thermostatic control, 50 C...
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    Re: Source for Methyl Anthranilate?

    Vigon would be easier than those, but even then would require both a minimum of a kilo purchase and an approval process.

    Far easier would be an overseas retailer if US retailers are out, or...
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    Re: What is this ammonia like smell?

    Personally I much dislike the trigeminal effect and can only use such materials in trace amount. That, however, clearly is not the trend.
  20. Re: Acetates: What's their value in a formula/

    I would treat each material as its own entity rather than lump into a class and be concerned about the class.

    In all cases that I know of except vetiveryl acetate (also written as vetiverol...
  21. Re: DIY Suppliers List ------Editing in progress 12/2013

    Agreed! Placing trust well is vital and each must go by what they see as reasons to go elsewhere.
  22. Re: DIY Suppliers List ------Editing in progress 12/2013

    I understand your point. Another view though is that people having these mystical ideas about their materials founded really in their purity and authenticity may be less likely to sell fakes than the...
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    I guess I didn't pay attention then! :laugh:
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Caproate is hexanoate, caprylate is octanoate.

    Enanthate is inbetween, the heptanoate, but I haven't myself seen in perfumery. Odd-number fatty acids are rarer biologically.
  25. Re: DIY Suppliers List ------Editing in progress 12/2013

    I had forgotten that Liberty Naturals has it (I have missed ever buying it.) The price is similar so it looks as if the above seller is not implausibly cheap.

    Apolo, not much thoughts except that...
  26. Re: DIY Suppliers List ------Editing in progress 12/2013

    Well, that's three times cheaper than John Steele, but that's not inherently impossible.

    It's also a lot less than Hermitage and same thing there.

    Vielle sells it in bulk so that would be a...
  27. Re: DIY Suppliers List ------Editing in progress 12/2013

    Looking quickly I didn't see any suspiciously low prices. Which did you spot?
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    Re: Tuberose Bases and thoughts from PK

    :laugh:
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    Re: Tuberose Bases and thoughts from PK

    Wow, now being reminded, I feel bad I haven't done a thing towards my wife's perfume since post #39.
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    Re: Polish Raw materials supplier??

    I don't think I've seen any other retailer selling Coumarone and Beta Patchoulene (the latter of which I learned from you, thank you, but I have not yet purchased.)
  31. Re: Obtaining formulas for discontinued fragrances

    On the advertisting as nearly-sole-driver line:

    I had to do some research a while back on the caffeine market. A line that struck me particularly in an analysis I read was, this being in contrast...
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    Re: Producing alcohol free perfume spray

    Here's an unthought-out idea. I mean, it has had 10 seconds between thinking and starting typing, so take it for what it's worth.

    Very powerful, that is to say concentrated, perfumes seem (to my...
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    Re: Hydroalcoholic & Different Solvents

    You're very welcome!
  34. Re: Obtaining formulas for discontinued fragrances

    It's part of the mystique of perfume.

    Analogously, while Coca-Cola now is not made to anything like the formula of many decades past, the current US formula having really no character at all, and...
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    Re: Hydroalcoholic & Different Solvents

    David does not post here anymore. There is an IFRA category for everything applied to skin as well as many things that are not applied to skin. Changing solvent and/or purpose could change categories...
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    Re: Producing alcohol free perfume spray

    IPM doesn't really spray though unless having propellant and a suitable nozzle. Personally I don't like skin feel, but some do, for example there's a mass-marketed Neutrogena body oil that's...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    Btw, on the glycerin, 1.5% is not a magic number and certainly depends on the formulation. It is a number I like and don't think needs to be exceeded for an alcoholic formulation that evaporates off...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    Agreed on all points.
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    Re: Cleaning perfume bottles

    You're very welcome!

    Ethanol 96% would work fine for sure.
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    Re: About lime

    Not that this is useful but reminds me of how I recently saw a metric ship-ton of lauric acid extend a trace of peppermint for hours on skin...
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    Re: Is there a lime ac....

    I don't have it so can't say from experience but I am finding some confusion on this.

    In terms of text that they give, Symrise says it is 2,6-Octadienal, 3,7-dimethyl, acid-isomerized, or in other...
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    Re: Cleaning perfume bottles

    As someone who has to clean a fair amount of glassware and has for years:

    Once actually clean, which may require water and detergent and water rinsing, rinse with isopropyl alcohol 99%, shake...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    You're very welcome!
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    Re: perfume base

    Why not try your formula both ways, with regards to the water, and see what differences you find and which you prefer if noticing differences.

    That would be more meaningful than blog reading.
    ...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    If it's not the pump and if the alcohol is as advertised then it is hard to see why you'd want to keep the glycerin.

    Isn't the glycerin your only change from prior to your fermentation or leakage...
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    Re: What is this ammonia like smell?

    I think this is generalizing trigeminal effect as "ammonia" effect.
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    Re: perfume base

    I think it's psychologically appealing to believe there is a Band-Aid for inadequate formulas -- just use XYZ Brand Miracle Alcohol with our Proprietary Fixatives, or my Internet or YouTube Formula,...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    Well, at a quick look I see the USP requirement is a mere 17%:...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    You could test it.

    An example method would be to find a bottle you have which has a narrow neck relative to a wide body, that when filled with water would be a weight your balance can measure very...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    I will try to document for you a particular figure for the minimum percent alcohol needed to prevent bacterial growth. I have some background in it, a microbiology degree and 20 years experience in...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    Did you find anything where it grows in 49 percent alcohol?

    Reference to bactericidal (killing, generally in context of quick killing) activity dropping below 50 percent says nothing towards...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    What species grows in 49 percent alcohol? I would be interested in a reference or even just the species. That would be new to me.
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    It is not fermentation then.

    Nor is it a chemical reaction among those ingredients.

    That's a very glycerin heavy mixture. I have no reason to think though that that would damage a pump.

    I'm...
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    If fermentation is occurring you must have much too much water and not near enough alcohol.

    If you have plenty of alcohol, fermentation will not occur.

    What percent alcohol do you have?
  55. Re: Transporting aroma-chemicals when moving across the world?

    This really will be individual to each country and even to circumstance.

    For example, I ran into difficulty returning from France to the United States with a small number of nutraceutical...
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    Re: Maltol solvent

    Why not use 190 proof alcohol?

    I would expect it to be as good or better in that than anything else.

    I don't dilute it myself so that is an expectation rather than observation. But being a...
  57. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    Always go to IFRA for actual IFRA restriction values.

    So far as I know, every time TGSC gives a value for the "concentrate" the value actually applies to the final formula including the dilution...
  58. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    Unfortunately, while it looks that way, he also has only Vertofix Coeur Sales, which is methyl cedryl ketone only, but sells it as being Vertofix Coeur:...
  59. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    Oh well! Thank you!

    Hopefully it will turn out one of the European retailers will have it (PCW does not, nor does Liaison Carbone.)
  60. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    Sadly we cannot buy Vertofix Coeur, unless you have a source you can recommend?

    (US retailers currently sell generic, or plain Vertofix, or Vertofix Coeur Sales which is different, with one of...
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    Re: Is it worth it to buy enfleurage?

    On principle I don't see why for a material one can get a good absolute from, enfleurage would necessarily be weaker.

    The problem may be more or entirely that the plant materials mentioned above...
  62. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    Also, try https://www.unguentarius.com/ingredient-statistics

    From this you would see for example Evernyl at 0.14% - 0.5% average use rate, Silvial 1.7 - 7%, Kephalis 1.5 - 2.8%, AAG 0.1 - 0.5%...
  63. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    I am guessing by "that" you mean Paul's statement that your sample size is too small for accuracy.

    Please do wait for his clarification as well if he sees your response.

    Myself I would say...
  64. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    When materials are greatly overdosed, often they seem to be doing little in a formula, or even sometimes nothing.

    As one cause, before even trying smelling your formula, your nose is likely mostly...
  65. Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    Please turn the formula into a standard format. Rather than only you having to figure percentage of everything in the formula, now every reader has to. That is unreasonable.

    At a glance, there is...
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    Re: Magic numbers

    I know you do! :thumbsup:
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    Re: Magic numbers

    Will, I'm sorry, but there is nothing useful there either. This thread is pure rabbit-hole.

    There are other threads, accurate ones, on the chemistry of maturation and the amount that is of...
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    Re: Magic numbers

    This thread is useless.

    For actual useful advice on perfume making, see any number of other threads.

    The above response is not intended to change the OP's mind or engage him, rather it is...
  69. Re: How to make a perfume - by Sarah McCartney (4160 Tuesdays)

    If you have alpha-isomethyl ionone or Isoraldeine, you have"methyl ionone G."
  70. Re: A Modernized Quantitative Method for Fragrance Formulation

    Asserting things merely is asserting.

    You are completely missing the point that a given vapor pressure will be measured for one moment for a sample of for example jasmine absolute, but an entirely...
  71. Re: A Modernized Quantitative Method for Fragrance Formulation

    You have provided no reason why the nose would "know" or respond to vapor pressure in and of itself.

    You have provided not nearly sufficient data to support that successful perfumes center about...
  72. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    I did not say that.
  73. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    It would depend on who is saying it.

    But generally not much. IFRA will have limits on what concentrations of some materials may be in final product. All else is opinion or non-binding...
  74. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Givco means an aromachemical base by Givaudan.

    You should check, but my recollection is Perfumer's Apprentice (PA) has glopped up their "Perfumer's Alcohol" with additives you don't need and...
  75. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Any that is SDA-40B or is pure 190 or 200 proof ethanol. Avoid products having further additives (glop) that supposedly makes them special.

    There actually is no such thing as "Perfumer's Alcohol"...
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    Re: Gardenia GCMS

    Poorly written, the intended meaning was comparative, higher than in the Ansolute or eo where apparently there wasn't enough to be detected.
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    Re: Questions about tuberose

    An old question, and apologies for the very slow reply. I didn't see it at the time.

    It doesn't. It is quite weak IMO.
  78. Re: How to make a perfume - by Sarah McCartney (4160 Tuesdays)

    Thank you.
  79. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Perhaps Benzoin, Jasmine, Labdanum, Lemon, Orange, Bergamot, Clary Sage, Rosemary, Geranium, Patchouli, Lavender, Rose, Ylang, Oak Moss, Vetiver, Sandalwood as a small set. Some are Absolutes or...
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    Re: Gardenia GCMS

    Thank you!

    I would be interested in people's thoughts on the numbers being as similar as they are between the reported fresh flower and the eo and Absolute, and also on low vapor pressure material...
  81. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Essential oils are fine when of good quality and from a source which is in the business of, or includes in their business, supplying for professional fragrance use.

    Oils from aromatherapy...
  82. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Roja Dove is a marketer not a perfumer.

    My first choice is Perfumer Supply House due to outstanding customer service and impeccable honesty and integrity. But PSH does not have everything. #2 for...
  83. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    While of course I don't take claimed notes on Fragrantica too seriously, I do wonder how the above perfume gets called a fougere when having no reported notes of coumarin, oak moss, geranium, or...
  84. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Also, "Black Cherry," "White Grapefruit," and the like sound like fragrance oils, which generally should be avoided.

    This is because they are aromachemical mixes particular to each company selling...
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    Re: SDA-40B Alcohol - @ creatingperfume.com

    If it was in a Cubetainer container like this https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=31622 then that's one thing. That is engineered for the purpose. I had thought you found the bag...
  86. Re: New Topic: Standout New-to-Me Materials I Just Received

    Btw, on these lines, beta-ionone is reportedly of similar potency, actually having an even lower odor threshold than beta-damascenone.

    I'd have never known it, as I've always let myself be blasted...
  87. Re: New Topic: Standout New-to-Me Materials I Just Received

    There seems no way to me that the damascones would have that kind of power in utter trace.
  88. Re: New Topic: Standout New-to-Me Materials I Just Received

    Well, as I expect many or at least several have, I received my Damascenone (beta-damascenone, Firmenich) from PSH, a material I've been wanting for a long time.

    I'd hoped to be able to say...
  89. Re: Understanding Firmenich Accord No. 208689 Fougère Woody

    I don't know its composition but have gained the impression it was an economical musk mixture perhaps resulting from a reaction process incapable of producing pure Exaltolide. There is a brief...
  90. Re: Understanding Firmenich Accord No. 208689 Fougère Woody

    I suspected the formula used Vertofix Coeur, which I imagine nearly none or maybe actually none of us have, and due to its high acetyl thujopsene content.that may be a very big difference from the...
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    Re: SDA-40B Alcohol - @ creatingperfume.com

    No and personally I wouldn't have been too pleased if I'd ever gotten it that way.

    I wonder if the shipper would have been pleased either, had they known. It seems extremely reckless.

    I don't...
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    Re: Eugenol vs naturals

    In each case the first would be synthetic (nature-identical, but synthetic) and the second would be natural, isolated from an essential oil.

    I hadn't noticed "natural isolate" before. It is an odd...
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    Re: Eugenol vs naturals

    Eugenol is a natural material, or can be purchased as the natural.

    As I have a sample of Aurochemicals Eugenol Natural at hand as well as Vigon Eugenol USP, I compared just now. I have never used...
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    Re: Almond / Benzaldehyde

    Hi Sarah,

    I believe you may, as I have often done, accidentally posted to a different thread than you intended, and I'm replying just in case you wanted to retry on the thread you intended. (That...
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    Re: Hedione vs Hedione high cis

    Thank you, that solves the question of whether it was from a US retailer that can't be trusted on this. I agree that we've heard nothing to doubt the sources you've mentioned, thankfully.
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    Re: Hedione vs Hedione high cis

    Please see above for the best answer as to whether it improves your formula or not.

    Also, do understand that your saying a retailer is "trusted" speaks only of your own faith, possibly misplaced,...
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    Re: Hedione vs Hedione high cis

    Smell different versions of your formula and see.

    That is by no means intended as a smartass answer, but as the most actually-useful answer.

    Numbers or ratios are never in themselves important,...
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    Re: Question about Civet Absolute(Robertet)

    Me too!!!
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    Re: Warm weather oud

    Yes, the above Oud Resin is Burmese and quite fruity (raspberry) and does go extremely well with Orange Flower Absolute.
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    Re: Warm weather oud

    I found (as personal opinion) Ensar's Oud Resin combined with Oud Assafi to go nicely to my taste with summer-suitable Mango Leaf Absolute (WLA not John Steele), Lemon Cold Pressed Argentina, White...
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