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  1. Re: Got some pretty interesting stuff on the way...

    "I can’t really give away further details without risk of sharing an accord I think is reasonably unique"

    TOPPE SEKRITTE SHITTOLIO! ;-)
  2. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
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    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    What matters most to me is that it's great! ;-)
  3. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
    Views
    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    Thanks!
  4. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
    Views
    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    Yeah, that wording is identical & what I've got definitely smells like that. But then why does CP have a Vigon MSDS that nowhere refers to the origin at Firmenich? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  5. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
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    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    The stuff I got from Creating Perfume does smell a lot like the Firmenich description, but how do we know that's what this is? The Vigon MSDS says nothing about it being a Firmenich product...
  6. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
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    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    Just pulled it out to use & it even says Firmenich on the bottle label...

    156215

    156216
  7. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
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    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    WOOD! According to my smelling notes it's "sweet spicy woody strong slightly-cedary terpenic", and it was detectable for just under 800 hours on the smelling strip at 10% in EtOH.
  8. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
    Views
    494

    Re: Vigon "WOOD"

    The email receipt from Creating Perfume refers to this as from Firmenich, but their website does not. The MSDS is a Vigon one, and nothing there or on the Vigon website refers to Firmenich. Anyway,...
  9. Thread: Vigon "WOOD"

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    14
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    494

    Vigon "WOOD"

    Does anyone knows what Vigon "WOOD" is in terms of manufacturer of origin & anything else? I bought some from Creating Perfume. I'm asking because it's actually a nice powerful tenacious wood base.
    ...
  10. Replies
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    Re: Recommend smelling

    I'm not sure what "start dilution for safe blending" means, but if you are wondering about usual ranges of percent of formula for materials, you can look at example formulas on Good Scents or see...
  11. Replies
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    Re: Recommend smelling

    In my experience it gives at best a rough sense of relative smell intensity, such that lower recommended % is more intense than higher. However, in my experience, even these rough relative...
  12. Re: Oddball question: Is there creosote in asphalt?

    Naphthalene is unsafe for perfumery?
  13. Replies
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    302

    Re: PCW order delays

    You have to be comfortable not knowing anything about their supplier for each material you buy tho.
  14. Replies
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    Re: Jasmin Base + Jasmin Absolute

    Thanks again!
  15. Replies
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    447

    Re: Jasmin Base + Jasmin Absolute

    Incredibly helpful! Do ppl think jasmine base (most specifically 231) would be likely to contain a mega tenacious muguet molecule like lyral (or ifra compliant sub)?
  16. Replies
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    Re: PCW order delays

    I had a bit of a slowdown last week, but not as long as you report. They told me they were having some computer system problems.
  17. Re: cheapest supplier of small quantity synthetics ?

    Checked out a few items on that website. All of it has to be fake based on prices.
  18. Thread: Sclareolide

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    8
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    839

    Re: Sclareolide

    OK I tried a few sketches w sclareolide that were trash, but here is one that I think is nice & highlights why to use it as an alternative to other ambroxide-related materials. Incidentally, my...
  19. Replies
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    Re: Trouble with Tea SFE bases

    I don't have an answer for what to do. But it is definitely the case that the CO2 super-fluid extraction process can easily yield a product that contains some components that aren't soluble in EtOH....
  20. Re: New Topic: Standout New-to-Me Materials I Just Received

    Wanted to report back here that, apparently, I never actually tried the Firmenich Keemun SFE. Rather, it appears that the sample I got sent when I requested "Keemun tea" was a Keemun CO2 extract that...
  21. Re: Fleuressence; as bad as it’s reputation suggests?

    You can't buy hobbyist quantities of their bases directly from big houses like Firmenich & Givaudan. You can, however, buy them from hobbyist distributors like Perfumer's Apprentice, Perfumer Supply...
  22. Replies
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    Re: Jasmin Base + Jasmin Absolute

    Thanks, Bill!
  23. Re: Fleuressence; as bad as it’s reputation suggests?

    There are legitimate floral bases designed & manufactured by the big aromamaterial suppliers such as Givaudan & Firmenich, and used in numerous famous & not so famous commercial perfumes. There are...
  24. Replies
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    Jasmin Base + Jasmin Absolute

    If I wanted to supplement a jasmine base (like Firmenich Jasmin 231) w some jasmine absolute in a formula, what would be a reasonable ratio to start with? Does 10:1 base:absolute sound reasonable as...
  25. Replies
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    Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    In my experience, velvione & muscenone perform somewhat similarly in blends in terms of scent impact & transparency, altho the former seems to be a bit more tenacious.
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    Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    Velvione is indeed a great macrocyclic musk. In the context of this thread, it's worth noting that it is pretty opaque & when used in a supporting role requires very judicious dosing to avoid...
  27. Re: for lovers of vintage - perfume restoration! Any ideas?

    Bal a Versailles at least as of about a year ago is currently available in reformulation. I have it & it's pretty good!
  28. Replies
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    Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    Just out of curiosity, why are you asking this question question? Is it because you want to "fill out" a formula?
  29. Re: Do you smell Hedione, Polysantol faint or strong?

    My perception of these materials exactly tracks yours. Regular hedione is pretty faint to me, and real hedione hc or the Bedoukian hc version are much stronger. Also, polysantol & pretty much every...
  30. Replies
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    Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    I think in this broad collection of materials that can be used in very high doses there's two types: those that are weaker & stay in the background as a kind of "canvas" for your main fragrance notes...
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    Re: Materials that can be used in large amounts

    No idea about "safe" if you're including to marine life (hobbyist perfumery quantities are beyond insignificant regardless), but I really like the smell of benzyl salicylate & depending on the...
  32. Re: What is your suggested max dilution rate for myrrh EO?

    No idea what a "max dilution rate" is, but myrrh tends to be pretty strong. Formulas that you can find on Good Scents & elsewhere tend to include it in the range of just below 1% of the concentrate...
  33. Re: for lovers of vintage - perfume restoration! Any ideas?

    My gut instinct, which could surely be wrong, is that it is probably a lot more rewarding & likely to yield a desirable outcome to try to recreate best estimates as to what the original smelled like...
  34. Thread: Sclareolide

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    8
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    839

    Re: Sclareolide

    Shipping to the US is a flat rate €33 (at least for the sizes of packages my orders have been) regardless of how many bottles. They have a lot of materials I haven't seen available retail to...
  35. Thread: Sclareolide

    by mnitabach
    Replies
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    839

    Re: Sclareolide

    Got it from PCW. It's btwn €1.5 & €2.5 per gram, depending how much you buy.
  36. Replies
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    Re: Only base note perfume.

    It would surprise me, altho it's obvs possible, that anyone is selling real agarwood at 80% dilution or supplemented w other aromamaterials. For obvious business reasons, it would seem much more...
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    Re: Almond-Brandy Materials?

    OK just got some Ventos Oakwood Base & just smelling headspace of bottle it literally smells like cognac or armagnac brandy. Like a complete brandy accord w the dry woody & sweet dried fruity & nutty...
  38. Thread: Sclareolide

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    8
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    839

    Sclareolide

    So I just got some of this & it smells bizonkerz strong & diffusive just sniffing the open jar of powder. I don't smell ambergris-related molecules particularly well & this smells vastly stronger to...
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    Re: Only base note perfume.

    Are you sure the agarwood oil you're using is real? I ask because of the several definitely real agarwoods I have worked with, they were so enormously strong that this formula would be an...
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    Re: Almond-Brandy Materials?

    PSH has an oakwood CO2 that is killer. It definitely smells like oak liquor casks.
  41. Re: Acetates: What's their value in a formula/

    Isobornyl acetate & isoborneol are very interesting to compare. I have found the former to be vastly easier to figure out how to use than the latter.
  42. Replies
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    Re: Cigarette smoke accord

    Totally trying this when I get back to my perfumery materials!
  43. Replies
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    Re: Cigarette smoke accord

    Papillon Anubis has a very distinct smoky ashy cigarette accord.
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    Re: HELP, with this formulation.

    In order to get input, you will need to post the exact formula of this composition. This means exactly what materials you are using and exactly how much of each of them.
  45. Thread: CK One

    by mnitabach
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    738

    Re: CK One

    I'm not a chemist, but I'm pretty sure that diluents like DPG & TEC do appear in GCMS analysis.
  46. Thread: CK One

    by mnitabach
    Replies
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    Re: CK One

    Presumably they are due to the use of materials diluted in them.
  47. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Tremendously useful info!
  48. Replies
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    Re: Good quality essential oils

    I have had good outcomes ordering natural materials from Hermitage Oils and PCW, both EU-based.
  49. Thread: CK One

    by mnitabach
    Replies
    10
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    738

    Re: CK One

    With so many components at an entire 10-fold range, would be interesting to see how difficult it would be to make something out of it.
  50. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    https://perfumersupplyhouse.com/product/allyl-heptoate/

    This is heptanoate for sale at PSH, with relatively similar odor quality description as caproate/hexanoate.
  51. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Thanks for clarifying!
  52. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Pell Wall is a selling allyl hexanoate as allyl caproate tho?

    https://pellwall.com/shop/ingredients-for-perfumery/liquids/allyl-hexanoate/

    As is PA:
    ...
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    Re: An Atlantic article - interesting!

    A number of neuroscientists (including myself) have been discussing this on twitter. There is definitely a range of opinion, but some relatively strong opinions (which I share) that the quite...
  54. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    There seems to be some ambiguity whether allyl caproate is allyl hexanoate vs allyl heptanoate?
  55. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    There's Montana frags w "Homme" in the official name in red box & blue box, which are quite different frags. I think there is some confusion of ebay sellers about the correct naming of what they've...
  56. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Just want to confirm that "ladano" is labdanum? Also, any sense for possible substitutions of verdox & allyl caproate? Otherwise, I've got everything on hand to try this!

    ETA: Oh, also "Oak" is...
  57. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Cool! I like the classic red box a lot better than the blue.
  58. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    I have two Claude Montana "Homme" vintage frags: Montana Parfum d'Homme (1989; sold in red box) & Montana Homme (2001; sold in blue box). I think your formula is aimed at the former?
  59. Replies
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    I'm just starting to learn how to use theaspirane, but isobornyl I've gotten to know pretty well. Because it is intrinsically balanced sweet & camphoraceous/woody, it can be used at very high doses...
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    Re: Oakmoss-based fragrance

    Citrus top would be classic, but what about isobornyl acetate + theaspirane for a camphoraceous sweet fresh woody minty top & heart?
  61. Replies
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    Re: Baccarat Rouge Long Drydown

    Thanks for the update! IES is vastly less tenacious than ambroxide on skin, so what happens on the extended drydown? Does it end up getting even sweeter?
  62. Re: Question about fixatives and essential oils

    The longest lasting citrusy material that I have tested is long-lasting lemon base from Perfumer's Supply House. It lasts multiple hours on skin, so vastly longer than anything else I'm familiar...
  63. Replies
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    Re: Baccarat Rouge Long Drydown

    I have a very beautiful fruity woody leathery osmanthus absolute from white lotus that I think might be great w this.
  64. Replies
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    Re: Newbie help on my formula

    It seems impossible to receive useful input when you've got enormous doses of perfume oils of totally unknown composition.
  65. Replies
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    Re: What is this ammonia like smell?

    Based on everything I'm hearing from the OP, sounds to me like these materials are fine & it's mostly a semantic issue of how one describes the organoleptic properties of ambers & superambers,...
  66. Re: Got some pretty interesting stuff on the way...

    Excellent!
  67. Re: Got some pretty interesting stuff on the way...

    Hexyl benzoate sounds fascinating! Please report back on that. I wonder about an accord w benzyl sal?
  68. Replies
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    Re: What is this ammonia like smell?

    I'm not super experienced with norlimbanol, but I'm very experienced with ambrocenide. The latter has powerful effects at extremely small percents of formula, like well under 0.01%.
  69. Replies
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    Re: fermenting body spray

    If you are selling commercially stuff for people to spray on their body, maybe it makes sense to secure professional consulting to ensure safety & regulatory compliance?
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    Re: Cleaning perfume bottles

    The only effect of a tiny amount of additional ethanol on an ethanol-based fragrance would be a tiny additional dilution in exact proportion to the amount of added ethanol. It would not have any...
  71. Replies
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    Re: What is this ammonia like smell?

    To my nose, the essence of superambers at high doses (I would place norlimbanol in that group & 1% norlimbanol is very strong) is very sharp fizzy & piercing, so perhaps akin to ammonia. But to my...
  72. Thread: About lime

    by mnitabach
    Replies
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    562

    Re: About lime

    DHM is limey, but it will not extend a lime note into the base, as was asked about. There are archived threads on here discussing how to extend citrus notes that are pretty useful.
  73. Replies
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    Re: Ice Cream Accord

    I'm pretty sure it's really only dangerous over long term high level chronic exposure. I know about it because we use it in the lab; it's a powerful olfactory attraction to C. elegans nematode worms....
  74. Replies
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    Re: Ice Cream Accord

    Diacetyl apparently can be very dangerous to the lungs when inhaled in large quantities over time.
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    Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    To be clear, commenting just on the formula on paper is speculative. But if you don't understand what is happening, an effective way forward is to dramatically simplify & then probe effects...
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    Re: What would you add/change in this formula?

    And more specifically, the absolutely enormous overdose of evernyl can easily be suppressing everything else. You've got the same amount of evernyl as of cardamom & patchouli, which is probably why...
  77. Replies
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    Re: Your favorite sintetic substances

    I'm traveling away from my perfumery rig, so will be at least a week...
  78. Replies
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    Re: Your favorite sintetic substances

    OK cuddly sweater sounds excellent! I'll try that!
  79. Replies
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    Re: Your favorite sintetic substances

    I love velvione too! My issue is that it has been super difficult for me to figure out how to dose it to get the mega-fuzzy velvety effect (which is what I love) but without crushing the rest of the...
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    Re: Ice Cream Accord

    In terms of other vanilla types, in addition to those already suggested, vanitrope is perhaps worth a try. In addition to being very powerful even at very low doses, it is super tenacious.
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    Re: Your favorite sintetic substances

    Isobornyl acetate is a strong diffusive sweet woody camphoraceous top note.

    Oxalide is an enormously tenacious non-animalic sweet powdery slightly floral musk.

    Germacrone lolz.
  82. Replies
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    Re: Magic numbers

    Nothing that can meaningfully be referred to as "dispersion" plays any role in time-dependent changes in a fragrance blend on time scales of hours to days (or longer).
  83. Replies
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    Re: Magic numbers

    This is incorrect. The only reason that perfumes change over time after blending, either in the concentrate or diluted in alcohol, is chemical reactions of aromamolecules.
  84. Replies
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    Re: Magic numbers

    The reasons perfumes "age" has nothing to do with intermolecular forces. Perfumes age because chemical reactions occur that change the molecular composition of the perfume.
  85. Replies
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    Re: Triethyl Citrate Fixative Question

    Are you sure that your tenacious base notes are really "disappearing" & not that since your beard is literally right under your nose you are adapting to the constant scent & no longer perceiving it...
  86. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    Do you think of musks similarly to IES & hedione as "special effects" to use to tweak an already good composition? Or do you think of musks as integral to the composition from the outset? I have...
  87. Re: A Modernized Quantitative Method for Fragrance Formulation

    I've decided there is no point to responding to this, so I'm deleting what I originally wrote.
  88. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    If I hadn't found this forum, I'd still be completely lost. I had started w Aftel's workbook, which is fine I guess if you want to just play superficially with essential oils. But it wasn't until I...
  89. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    I wish I had become aware of these philosophical considerations at the very beginning, as it would've saved me a lot of wasted time & money.
  90. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    What Casper said tracks very well with my own experiences, altho it definitely depends on one's goal (which one may not initially even be aware of & may change over time). My original goal was "make...
  91. Replies
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    Re: Baccarat Rouge Long Drydown

    I tried replacing ambroxan with germacrone at the same dose & the accord was definitely different but not dramatically different to my nose.
  92. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    IMO you are much better off buying naturals from Eden Botanicals than from Perfumer's Apprentice. Also, you don't need any of these "key accords" for the purpose of getting started with learning...
  93. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    My suggestion if you want spicy citrusy woody is to start with a very simple fougère sketch. You can search this forum (but seems like simple search is broken & you need to use the advanced search...
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    Re: Baccarat Rouge Long Drydown

    I think I may be a relatively weak ambroxide smeller, so not sure how generally applicable, but to me this accord is overwhelmingly dominated by evernyl & ethyl maltol. From the ambroxide, I just get...
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    Re: Baccarat Rouge Long Drydown

    I would be surprised if any of those could substitute for ambroxide in this accord. But do please report back what you try!
  96. Re: Best Bang For Your Buck Fragrance Sizes & Oil List For Beginners

    When you say "first time mixing", are you saying that you have never before ever blended any aromamaterials before? Because if so, starting with such an enormously complex combination of materials...
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    Re: Affordable Poolside Alchemy

    Cascalone is cool, but at least in my hands is substantially less tenacious than calone. So depending on your purpose, that could matter & it doesn't participate in the super long drydown like...
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    Re: Basic formula structure

    I'm not sure if it's reasonable, but I have used dimetol instead of DHM in places where the latter would traditionally be called for. It's a little more interesting but very similar, like using...
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    Re: Basic formula structure

    I think of benzyl salicylate as I kind of older school alternative backbone to the grojsman accord. In addition to its own scent, like grojsman, it is a quite transparent smoothener.

    ETA: Benzyl...
  100. Re: Understanding Firmenich Accord No. 208689 Fougère Woody

    Just thinking about this a little more & I still wonder abt the enormous musk dose. Maybe exaltolide is uniquely transparent, but IME my prediction would have been that amount of even quite...
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Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000