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  1. Replies
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    I had time now to go back and use a currency calculator and look closer. Too cheap (what I had above), as with other offerings UFO and I had earlier turned up on the web.

    For clarity on the...
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    Oh! I was slow on the uptake here. Didn't know my botanical name, as I should have.

    Queen of the Night, Night Queen! According to some sites synonyms for Night Flowering Jasmine. Still not common...
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    Accidental double post
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    Re: Tamper Down IBQ

    Thank you!

    I found appeal as I quite like the Mousse de Saxe, but I'll try Pyralone first then.
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    Re: Petroleum Ether Extraction

    From extractions for nutraceutical purposes and just chemistry in general, and you may already know as nothing in the above suggests not:

    Petroleum ether is simply a light hydrocarbons mixture...
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    Re: Amazing list of commercial suppliers

    Thank you, Bavard!
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    Re: Amazing list of commercial suppliers

    I will try later. At the moment, I had success before by websearching for some phrase I saw as being common to his chapters. I found most that way but not all, as for example I missed this one.

    As...
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    Amazing list of commercial suppliers

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://docshare04.docshare.tips/files/27588/275888767.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiA3I64yqDuAhXSxFkKHaEFCL4QFjAPegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1BJFzs-X9GKiGEMoms0-lS

    I...
  9. Re: So how exactly are large amounts of fragrance liquid created for mass production/selling?

    You don't have to figure moles, just grams or milligrams.

    Agreed that trying to work in ounces, grains, dirhams, mithqals, spoonfuls, drachms etc would be nightmare.
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    Re: Tamper Down IBQ

    Wow. Phenomenal article actually. Thank you!

    Now I need the Symrise.
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    Re: The Sandalwood Game Proposal & Entries

    For fun (?) I decided to find the "brief" I wrote and sent Paul back in 2014 when it seemed a cosmetic client would pay for a professional Perfumer and I had started on the project but if the client...
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    Re: The Sandalwood Game Proposal & Entries

    That's what one can do when more organized and not going on too long as I do! :)
  13. Replies
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    Re: The Sandalwood Game Proposal & Entries

    Trying to help on that as clearly you have considerable concern and I don't think anything I posted above was too useful for your concern.

    Without knowing your fragrance, I can't say much but...
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    Re: The Sandalwood Game Proposal & Entries

    Agreed. Also for the benefit of the person submitting.

    I only ever get anything I do evaluated by, if you even want to use that word -- more like "opinions from" usually -- just completely...
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    When words have no meaning or are excessively broadened, things just get worse and worse.

    Of course with as many people in the world as there are, there will be some wishing to sell cheaper for...
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    Re: The Sandalwood Game Proposal & Entries

    Myself I could probably write -- haven't done so yet -- my presentation on the back of a postage stamp with room to spare, and it's fair enough that if presentation is judged, I get near zero.

    I...
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    Re: Broad subject

    It is very very easy to have inconsistent or even wildly varying impressions at different times of one's own work.

    As an example in a different field where there's no possibility of actual change...
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    Re: What Note is Ambergris ?

    :)

    .
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    Re: What Note is Ambergris ?

    It has some toppy quality, the more marine part, but is generally a base note material.

    I do suggest though that unless just wanting to have for personal amusement, amazement, or data collection,...
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    Re: Tamper Down IBQ

    A little further:

    While there's still no telling what the PA anonymized isobutyl quinoline is, it is probably NOT the Givaudan product, as they also sell Pyralone and say specifically it is...
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    Re: Tamper Down IBQ

    (EDIT: Ordinarily when correcting actual error instead of just typographical or style matters, I leave the original text in and add the correction, but in this case I was learning as I was going and...
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    Re: Tamper Down IBQ

    Also important to note there are different materials called isobutyl quinoline.

    I was talking about Creating Perfume's product which is 6-sec-butyl quinoline, CAS 65442-31-1.

    PA has a possibly...
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    Re: Tamper Down IBQ

    Very very small amount is what should be used.

    At 10% dilution, try as half or a quarter of a percent of formula (5 or 2.5 parts per thousand.) And be ready to drop further if necessary....
  24. Thread: Iso

    by Bill Roberts
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    Re: Iso

    Any change in a molecule can change odor, many times or most times.

    There is no particular iso odor.

    "Iso" can refer to -2 substitution, such as isopropyl alcohol being 2-propanol, or can...
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    You saw my post before the edit! :)

    Which was very fast.

    Yes, the price seemed alarmingly low to me too, hence the edit.

    I'll put the link up again here:...
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    Wow!

    Now that is an exotic!!!

    I hope someone can help!

    The offerings I find from quick websearch, nothing beyond what you have likely already done, all seem alarmingly cheap.
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    Re: White Lotus Aromatics Closing

    For the most part I think few would have been helped.

    I expect the vast majority of items were from suppliers who would be unwilling to sell less than a kilo, and even if an average WLA customer...
  28. Re: Lyral-Methyl Anthranilate Schiff Base From Vigon

    If Paul takes a long time to get back to you, while his answer will be better as I don't have the material, to my knowledge all aromamaterial Schiff bases are synthesized at substantial temperature,...
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    Re: Macrocyclic Musk Transparency

    Yes, while it may not mean much to others for me to use frequency terminology (no relation to Turin's claims) I perceive civetone as very much a bass note in the musical sense, having a particularly...
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    Re: Loss of smell

    A lot has been and is going on having nothing to do with science or good medical practice, in fact flying in the face of both, but outside the scope here.
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    Re: Loss of smell

    Btw, on your original question of frequency, while this never happens to me -- or not in the last at least 20 years anyway, it's possible it may have happened some time before then when having...
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    Re: Loss of smell

    Yes, different if there's reason to suspect being exposed.

    I certainly wish for you to stay healthy and have your smell back soon!

    Here in the US the Covid tests are often quite bogus. Quite...
  33. Re: So how exactly are large amounts of fragrance liquid created for mass production/selling?

    50 ounces by weight, as opposed to fluid ounces, is only about (for easier math) 1500 grams. Somewhat less but close enough for an idea.

    At for example 20 percent concentration, that means only...
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    Re: Loss of smell

    In terms of ordinary standards as to whether symptoms indicate getting tested for a condition or not, the standard I have from my best friend who is an ER doctor, as well as some research, is that...
  35. Re: Clary Sage from PA clouding up my top accords

    Oh! Well if the accord is pure aromamaterials with no alcohol this might plausibly be normal.
  36. Re: Clary Sage from PA clouding up my top accords

    Not that particular one, which would be the Vielle according to the offering and the SDS posted, which is a quality company.

    Ordinarily on first addition of alcohol when diluting clary sage eo it...
  37. Re: Realistic accords for a strange project

    Smell-O-Vision has been tried, not in homes that I know of but in movie theaters, and failed.

    I don't think additional aromamaterials available now vs then would make any difference.
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    Re: DPG vs DEP

    Sure!
  39. Re: Is $75USD per litre a high price to pay for Perfumers Alcohol?

    https://culinarysolvent.com/collections/all

    Remet actually works out cheaper then. I didn't have to pay any unreasonable shipping, but a gallon is $120 from the Culinary Solvent place. Even that...
  40. Re: Is it always necessary to mix fragrance oils with solvents before mixing with wax?

    I don't know the answer to your question; I would think probably not. Some materials will dissolve directly into wax, others will require a cosolvent. But you should get a better answer from someone...
  41. Re: Is $75USD per litre a high price to pay for Perfumers Alcohol?

    The price I paid is much cheaper per liter at liter quantity than "Perfumer's Alcohol" at Creating Perfume, and when my wife saw how much cheaper the culinary alcohol as at 5 gallons vs one gallon,...
  42. Re: Is $75USD per litre a high price to pay for Perfumers Alcohol?

    Great deal! :)

    I paid $320 ($16.93/liter) for 5 gallons of culinary (food grade) 200 proof, which also is by far the best quality vodka, once diluted, I have ever experienced. Ultra clean.
    ...
  43. Re: Is $75USD per litre a high price to pay for Perfumers Alcohol?

    Yes. By far.
  44. Re: Does anyone have any advice and/or resources for REGULATION (EC) No 1223/2009

    Do you mean, by including on the label can one then exceed specified limits?

    No.

    Labeling is an additional requirement rather than an optional differing path.
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    Re: Black Musk

    Very true! Glad to see your support for her. I really hope she makes it, as do we all.
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    Re: Black Musk

    I am seeing $11.85 shipping quote for a single 30 mL bottle. Of course my zip code will be different than yours which could make some difference.

    Perhaps if you try again you'll get a quote...
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    Re: DPG vs DEP

    Curious as to your reason for saying this. There is one commonly held reason, but that wouldn't have to be your reason.

    That is not an obtuse way of saying I disagree, it is quite literal.
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    Re: Tobacco absolute

    Buying cheapie materials in perfumery, and even moreso when of a wrong* type entirely such as in jojoba oil, is always a waste of money compared to either getting the right though pricier stuff, or...
  49. Re: Lyral-Methyl Anthranilate Schiff Base From Vigon

    Promise to turn it into bubble-bath! :laugh:
  50. Re: Lyral-Methyl Anthranilate Schiff Base From Vigon

    Unfortunately one can't even get Vigon to accept payment for the shipping of free samples. (Or at least I have never succeeded, despite providing UPS account number many times.) It will be on their...
  51. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    For any who read #31 before, you can 100% skip this one. Or anyone can skip for any reason of course! I decided that by trying to cover two different things #31 was way too much of a wall of text. ...
  52. Re: Lyral-Methyl Anthranilate Schiff Base From Vigon

    One has to provide documentation for having a business.

    I've bought a kg of less expensive materials, usually more than I needed, from time to time to do my part rather than repeatedly requesting...
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    Re: The Sandalwood Game Proposal & Entries

    Also, for anyone mailing within the US, I would also recommend against regular mail rather than Priority. These days, regular mail cannot be trusted to arrive.

    For those mailing internationally...
  54. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    While contents are invisible thanks to the function, I see we have our complete set now. Three out of three.

    Exactly as expected.

    The content I provided stands for itself and no rebuttal is...
  55. Re: Any tips on how to boost the projection of this formula?

    Great post, thank you. I had never connected the dots on this effect and non-linearity of perception but now that you've said it, that's very clear.
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    Re: Loud as can be

    A crummy trick would be to use a shipload of Javanol and/or various super-ambers.

    I do not care for it at all but it will do as you ask for those notes.

    Most aromamaterials cannot do as asked....
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    Re: Perfumer's Apprentice White Musk Accord

    As mentioned there is nothing special or interesting, let alone "Key," about this blend. It is serviceable as a white musk blend though.

    I wasn't quite sure of your meaning. That may be on me.
    ...
  58. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    I do "rail" against what could be called incompetence but I call lack of due diligence, having said so a number of times not only now but over time.

    I don't personally believe, based on some...
  59. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    "Mistake?"

    Well that could be an opinion.

    Is it a mere mistake to first decide that you won't present the SDS you were provided with:

    143679

    but instead create your own from it and...
  60. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    Seeing the above, it is as is so often repeated: whatever I say, the opposite is baselessly claimed for no detectable rational cause but that I said it. That's why the Ignore function is activated....
  61. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    As an update, the matter is now a little more complex.

    SMPE has another Orris Concrete 15% Irones that requires no irrelevant-for-orris claim of proprietary composition and shows no "off"...
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    Re: 10 Starting Ingredients

    Even 0.5 percent of concentrate.
  63. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    Wow.

    143639
  64. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    It would be very simple to "extend" orris butter and save money compared to providing 100%.

    One can make an impressive fake orris butter with nothing but myristic acid and alpha-irone. Incomplete...
  65. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    That's the one.

    There is either an utterly bizarre error in the distributor-supplied SDS or it contains materials in it that are not reported or remotely plausibly present in orris.

    For...
  66. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    I haven't seen the above nor will I. I see that it exists, however.

    In the interest of pleasant experience for those reading later, I have removed the expression of my reasons.
  67. Re: Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    It is a true shame that they have a GC/MS but say they don't have the skills to be able to detect adulteration of naturals -- not that some could slip by them, but just a plain we can't do it, far...
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    Re: 10 Starting Ingredients

    Unusual report.

    It is possible to err by deciding that materials disliked at high concentration are to be discarded.

    If the Ambrofix was correct material, and if you hate it any concentration,...
  69. Oh come on! I have had it with the dishonesty!!!

    Well I was looking at Orris Butter due to another thread, seeing descriptions, and I had a sinking feeling.

    The PA product is from the notorious (to me) SAS MATIÈRES PREMIÈRES ESSENTIELLES.
    ...
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    Re: Frangipani / Plumeria Accord

    :)

    .
  71. Replies
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    Re: Frangipani / Plumeria Accord

    Oh, i wasn't suggesting Orris Butter, it's dreadfully expensive. And besides, philosophically (meaning, anyone could think and do entirely differently) I prefer bases to have distinctive ingredients...
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    Re: IFRA Compliance for beginners - question

    As pure guesswork:

    If I have Formulas A through S, let's say, all of which are legal to sell full strength and properly documented, and I sell you a custom mixture of so much of A, so much of D, a...
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    Re: Frangipani / Plumeria Accord

    Yes.

    Although I suppose creaminess is a word that could be interpreted differently. A floral creaminess rather than a dairy creaminess. I believe some use the word "fatty" instead, though as a...
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    Re: Frangipani / Plumeria Accord

    Btw, I see myristic acid is listed in the paper. I had actually been thinking it when reading the original post simply as being more plausible to me than Coumarin.

    It's a quite nice material that...
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    Re: Frangipani / Plumeria Accord

    I don't think it's faint (Edit: TGSC says medium) and I use it for its odor not as a fixative, but not often due to being replaceable only with difficulty and great cost if at all, unless the...
  76. Re: Who here has used a listed accord structure for a "favorite" and successfully made something sim

    Seems a lot more like educated... :laugh:

    With regard to the literature.

    It seems a hard-to-get material.
  77. Replies
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    Re: Frangipani / Plumeria Accord

    I have not done frangipani.

    I guess this morning is the day for my posting from not really knowing. Oh well, hopefully there is something useful in one of these two such posts so far.

    What I...
  78. Re: Real oud in compositions - usage level

    I'm a noob on oud so can contribute only quite little, particularly on concentration.

    I would like to ask for clarification on amount you are using though, as the way you phrase it is unusual...
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    Re: Sandalwood Accord - sandalore, ebanol

    Thank you!
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    Re: Sandalwood Accord - sandalore, ebanol

    Thank you. I had not managed to read that.

    Is this it? It appears to possibly be only re natural sandalwood, but I can't tell for sure:...
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    Re: Sandalwood Accord - sandalore, ebanol

    Bumping up for a few reasons:

    1) Good thread and replies, well worth seeing again. Would also be nice to see Parker again, been a while.

    2) That's an extraordinarily strong and persuasive...
  82. Re: Who here has used a listed accord structure for a "favorite" and successfully made something sim

    How did you get the "Katsura Leaf" ?

    Maltol?

    Or is it an actual available product?

    Did you aim for all natural? If so -- not asking you to give everything away, nor take the time for great...
  83. Re: Pell Wall: is it still in operation? Having trouble reaching the company

    Thank you HH, TheDeen, and QL! :)

    I had no idea! Interesting and good to know.
  84. Re: In Search of a Superior Bottle Supplier

    Judging from the webpage I thought Pell Wall had a nice selection. I have had them sitting in my cart, but they've been there a while as shipping to the US is somewhere north of $40 so I keep orders...
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    Re: Allyl hexanoate safety / dermal toxicity

    You're very welcome, Sam!
  86. Replies
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    Re: Orris materials

    If you want to do a wide variety of things you need real orris and/or the Givco or perhaps another base that I don't know, as well as methyl ionone. If a more limited set of things to do, many...
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    Re: 10 Starting Ingredients

    100.00% agreed as personal opinion.
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    Re: Group buy for GC/MS

    I would think for this kind of thing, postage cost would be a smaller factor than the differences between what labs offer and their prices.

    From previous postings, both Phytochemia and Creative...
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    Re: 10 Starting Ingredients

    For clarity in case not known, for the original version that would require acquiring Galaxolide, high "gamma" methyl ionone* such as Isoraldeine 95, Iso-E Super,and Hedione and using shiploads of...
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    Re: Orris materials

    Iralia (a particular brand of methyl ionone) is a fantastic starting point in this area. If you buy only one thing of what you mention, I would pick this.

    Some here have said they see little...
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    Re: Phenethyl Alcohol smelling odd

    Another possibility perhaps:

    I have smelled a natural (biotechnology I think) PEA produced for use as a microbial preservative in cosmetics. Dermosoft PEA, specifically. It did not smell...
  92. Re: Jonathan Steele products at perfumers apprentice

    Not just the effort of doing the comparison, but sourcing the material, and making the bulk buy.

    I imagine it is not an easy task finding the many very small distillers in the world.
  93. Replies
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    Re: Phenethyl Alcohol smelling odd

    One of the articles I read above discussed the issue of "natural" PEA being cheapened down with synthetic. The means mentioned in the article to detect that were sophisticated and beyond the reach of...
  94. Re: Looking for a „professional“ smelling formula i can do with the materials i own

    As to why all that DPG is not good:

    While more modern formulas use less Coumarin due to IFRA restriction, quite commonly a classic perfume will use such as 5% Coumarin.

    By using Coumarin...
  95. Re: Looking for a „professional“ smelling formula i can do with the materials i own

    Why not try first a balance of Oakmoss, Lavandin (I prefer Lavender but this is what you have), Geranium EO and/or geraniol, and Coumarin albeit having all that DPG is not good, and see if you can...
  96. Re: Pell Wall: is it still in operation? Having trouble reaching the company

    I see one of them said, "I never noticed part of my brain growing - it makes you wonder what happened to the rest of it."

    :)

    Jolie: Interesting question!
  97. Re: Pell Wall: is it still in operation? Having trouble reaching the company

    Surprisingly, one can find this as easily as by websearching for:

    London cabbies brains

    :)
  98. Re: Pell Wall: is it still in operation? Having trouble reaching the company

    Thank you QL!

    That makes sense.

    Well not that it makes so much sense that after all this time there isn't something a little plainer and more direct, but that since there isn't, that then...
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    Re: Musk in Aventus??

    The forum has a search function, which is quite useful.

    As the first thing I found with it that has some answer to your question,...
  100. Re: Pell Wall: is it still in operation? Having trouble reaching the company

    Almost completely unrelated but perhaps one of our British members can advise me.

    I have long, if idly, wondered why British addresses are often like this:

    Pell Wall Perfumes
    Four Winds, Sandy...
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