Clary Sage

[iggy]

Hi guys!

I'm busy with a chypre formula which contains a lot of Clary Sage: approx. 50%
of perfume concentrate instead of recommended 15%. It will be diluted in
alcohol (20-30%). Is Clary Sage really not so safe for health? In this concentration too
or just as an undiluted essential oil?

Thanks for advice!

[David Ruskin]

Clary Sage contains some chemicals found on the Allergen list, so if you are allergic to any of them I wouldn't use Clary Sage. Aromatherapists say that Clary sage shouldn't be used around pregnant women, as it is believed that the oil can bring on contractions; don't know about this.

[Chris Bartlett]

Hi guys!

I'm busy with a chypre formula which contains a lot of Clary Sage: approx. 50%
of perfume concentrate instead of recommended 15%. It will be diluted in
alcohol (20-30%). Is Clary Sage really not so safe for health? In this concentration too
or just as an undiluted essential oil?

Thanks for advice!

20-30% is very strong too, most fragrances are sold at lower concentrations. If it’s just for your own use, try it out and see if you have any problems. If it’s for sale I think you need to reduce the amount of clary sage and also dilute in more alcohol. At 10% for example you could have up to 30% clary sage in your concentrate and it will probably be fine.

Hope that helps

[iggy]

David, thanks for your reaction. I hope, it will give me no terrible dreams, allergies, euphoria,
high blood pressure etc.

Thank you, Chris. As always, you're very helpful. I'll dilute it in more alcohol. Yes, it's for my
own use and my first try with Clary Sage. All my "creations" are quite strong, ca. 20-30% for
naturals and ca. 15% for naturals mixed with synthetics.

[iggy]

Double post

[mumsy]

For my pennysworth here... Clary sage is an extremely potent oil and certainly wouldn't be used at such high concentrations for aromatherapy purposes. It is an oil used with some caution in this respect.

It has many beneficial healing and effective qualities, but can certainly bring on a huge and very real headache, would be likely to enhance the effects of alcohol and is absolutely NOT to be used during pregnancy, particularly the first trimester. So if it is for you, then please take care not to wear such a strong clary perfume around anyone pregnant unless she has begun to go into labour. Then it would suddenly become a good thing instead for relaxing the uterus.

It is also probably not the perfume to wear if you intend to get trashed, nor if you need to drive and remain alert.

It is very good however if you wanted to meditate, or need to get over something sad. It can induce calm sedative feelings when depressed or stressed. It is good for women especially for all sorts of hormonal ailments. It fixes sore throats as an anti inflammatory.... in fact oodles of things.

[iggy]

Thank you, Mumsy! I have this information from different sources too, that's why I asked this question
hoping to get an answer from those persons who have more experience than me. By the way, my
composition (still 50% Clary Sage in the perfume concentrate) is already diluted in alcohol and it
gives me no headache or other side effects.

[ProfessorBats]

I've searched the site for newer threads, but found none, so I'm reviving this dinosaur.
I've been wondering why clary sage is so much more used than common sage, salvia officinalis. I absolutely LOVE my common sage oil from Eden Botanicals, and like it better than the clary sage. A little goes a long way so I'm not too concerned about safety (so far I'm well under 0.1% final concentration where I've tried mixing it into blends)... but maybe I'm missing something. I know you want to keep it at low concentrations due to thujone (and likely other things as well), but hey, it's used in food in moderate amounts, so how bad can it be!
I find it really exalts the top notes.
Any reason other than personal taste that it's used so little (at least according to reported notes lists)?

[DrSmellThis]

Clary Sage contains some chemicals found on the Allergen list, so if you are allergic to any of them I wouldn't use Clary Sage. Aromatherapists say that Clary sage shouldn't be used around pregnant women, as it is believed that the oil can bring on contractions; don't know about this.

That I believe has to do with some constituents that mimic hormones, I believe estrogenic ones. But don't quote me, as it's been at least several years since I read that. I also don't know how accurate that is.

[mumsy]

To save typing it all out, This info is from www.babycentre.co.uk

Don't use the following essential oils while you are pregnant:
Nutmeg, which may have hallucinogenic effects and react with pain-relieving drugs in labour.
Rosemary, which is thought to increase blood pressure, and may cause contractions.
Basil, which is thought to contribute to abnormal cell development.
Jasmine and clary sage, which may trigger contractions.
Sage and rose, which may cause bleeding in your uterus (womb).
Juniper berry, which may affect your kidneys.

Laurel, angelica, thyme, cumin, aniseed, citronella and cinnamon leaf should also be avoided as they could stimulate contractions.

There is a lot of confusion over the safety of lavender essential oil in pregnancy. That's because lavender can be used to regulate periods. Rest assured that this does not mean using it in pregnancy raises the risk of miscarriage. However, for ease of mind, you may want to wait until your second trimester before using it.

Clary sage can be a great way to get labour started if used by a trained midwife for a mum who is overdue. However, don't use this oil yourself, as overuse can make your contractions too powerful.

In some circumstances, it's best to steer clear of essential oils altogether. Don't use any oils if:
you have a history of miscarriage
you have had any vaginal bleeding in this pregnancy
you have epilepsy
you have heart problems
you have diabetes, blood clotting problems, or have thyroid, liver or kidney disease

It's always a good idea to talk to your doctor or midwife before using essential oils.

[ProfessorBats]

Thank you both!
However, that info is all about clary sage, not common sage, or did I misread? I wouldn't be surprised if it applies to both/many sages, but we have no plans to be pregnant, so no worries on that count.
Just out of curiosity, do either one of you use common sage for perfumery, or other purposes? I find it wonderfully uplifting :-)

[mumsy]

I have it as an immature tincture. I haven't really used it yet. It is a fabulous and very distinctive aroma. I may have to go and smell it now to see what might go with it. The good scents guide normally suggests blenders but they have no suggestions for sage. Interesting.

[David Ruskin]

Thank you both!
However, that info is all about clary sage, not common sage, or did I misread? I wouldn't be surprised if it applies to both/many sages, but we have no plans to be pregnant, so no worries on that count.
Just out of curiosity, do either one of you use common sage for perfumery, or other purposes? I find it wonderfully uplifting :-)

Sage Oil as well As Artemesia and Armoise oil are commonly used in Perfumery. They have nothing to do with Clary Sage, however, and smell nothing like it. I think I must be the only (ex) Perfumer in the world who does not like Clary Sage, but I really don't.

[mumsy]

...(Common garden sage as a tincture, not clary)

Clary sage was something to treat depression. I also used it when attempting a vegetal ambergris blend as there are certain nuances in common.

[ProfessorBats]

David - I don't dislike the clary sage as such - I just don't find it very interesting. We had sage in the garden where I grew up; I always liked crushing a leaf for sniffing!
Mumsy - tincture, how interesting, I wonder how similar or different it is from the oil.
I used sage oil in a trace amount in my first blend, and now in the 2nd "in progress" blend. The other top/middle notes of that first are petitgrain and lavender, I really like the sage with them. The WIP is based on cypress, frankincense, and vetiver, with a tiny bit of geranium and violet leaf. Very "green" smelling, and also very green in color!

[pkiler]

I don't have your variety information, but you can find more at http://www.essentialoils.org/database/ after you sign up a free membership. It really is free, nothing to worry about or be pressured to buy... This is a really great database to learn through, take great advantage of it...

Botanical
Salvia officinalis L. var. Albiflora, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. angustifolia Ten., fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Berggarten, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Compacta, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Icterina, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Purpurascens, fam Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Rubriflora, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Tricolor, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L. var. Woodcote Farm, fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis L., fam. Lamiaceae (Labiatae)
Salvia officinalis x S. lavandulaefolia ssp. vellerea, fam. Lamiaceae

[ProfessorBats]

Oh, that looks like an awesome resource - thanks Paul!

[DrSmellThis]

On sage versus clary:

Sage smells wonderful and is a useful green note, a warm, dry desert vibe, a little woody.

But clary i think is valued for its versatility and its function, moreso than just its smell. Clary has musk like aspects, a romantic and sexcual vibe, sweaty and amber aspects -- that make it more of a classical material, a more multi-tasking material, by comparison. These days, I think it is used more for its effects, and as an addition of complexity and leafiness. It also has that role in tobacco accords and pairs so well with so many things.

Sage probably smells just as good to most people, though...

[ProfessorBats]

On sage versus clary:

Sage smells wonderful and is a useful green note, a warm, dry desert vibe, a little woody.

But clary i think is valued for its versatility and its function, moreso than just its smell. Clary has musk like aspects, a romantic and sexcual vibe, sweaty and amber aspects -- that make it more of a classical material, a more multi-tasking material, by comparison. These days, I think it is used more for its effects, and as an addition of complexity and leafiness. It also has that role in tobacco accords and pairs so well with so many things.

Sage probably smells just as good to most people, though...

That makes sense! See, as a newbie, I don't know all those nifty things that each note can do in blends :-)
Thanks for sharing your insights.
From your description it sounds like clary sage and sage almost do the opposite - a tiny bit of sage oil seems to bring out at least some top notes, make them more vibrant, but I certainly would not say it adds sweaty or musky aspects. I can think of ingredients that do that (jasmine CO2 extract, just for one, at least to me), but definitely not the sage. Aptly, "sage" means "well-behaved" in French.

[DrSmellThis]

Clary is more hormonal smelling. I think of sage as cleaner and fresher, though not fresh in a "toppy" way. Sage can also have a dill like note that makes it "pickley".

[David Ruskin]

Clary Sage certainly works well with lots of other notes, and if it does so I cannot smell it so much the better. It blends well with Geranium and Lavender, Patchouli and Vetivert, and even green "modern" Fougere types. Sage does indeed stand out more.

[islearom]

ProfessorBats, try the absolute of Clary and I think you will in fact find it to have the animal type of notes that are buried rather deep down in the EO.

[ProfessorBats]

ProfessorBats, try the absolute of Clary and I think you will in fact find it to have the animal type of notes that are buried rather deep down in the EO.

Good point, my comparison is lopsided: what I have is actually the absolute for the clary sage, and the EO for the common sage. I should have mentioned that. I have not tried a clary sage EO, and have not encountered a common sage absolute.

[islearom]

Well, if you already have the absolute of Clary Sage, then I don't believe you will find the animal notes of which I made reference, as I was referring to the fact (I thought it to be one) that the Absolute of Clary Sage has more animal aspects to it than the EO of Clary.

[ProfessorBats]

Well, if you already have the absolute of Clary Sage, then I don't believe you will find the animal notes of which I made reference, as I was referring to the fact (I thought it to be one) that the Absolute of Clary Sage has more animal aspects to it than the EO of Clary.

There may well be, or they may come out in blends. I have not explored it much in blends. To my nose quite a few oils and absolutes have some notes that make me thing "animalic" :-)

[islearom]

"Fatty" is probably more accurate a term to use to describe that aspect, but in the world of botanicals, "fatty" tends to imply "animal".

[arion]

Some clary sage absolutes contain up to 20% sclareol, which may be responsible for the amber/musky note = "animal".

One sample of clary sage oil exhibited a distinct wet hair note.
BTW, wet dog:
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...A2002&PID=2861