Living Jasmine Accord

[BAGreat]

This accord is based off of the GC/MS analysis of the Sacred Jasmine Sambac Absolute offered by Hermitage Oils. This accord literally smells like a Jasmine flower in full blossom. I did the math and made the analysis equal to 100%. Enjoy!

http://www.hermitageoils.com/sacred-...ambac-absolute

Hey Chris, knowing that you raved over this, have you tried blending the analysis?

Cis 3 Hexanol- 0.19%
Hexenyl Cis 3 Acetate- 0.32%
Benzyl Alcohol- 4.74%
Methyl Benzoate- 0.42%
Laevo(!) Linalool- 17.40% (Purchase from TGSC)
Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol- 0.13%
Linalool (Dextro if you can source it, but regular will work also)- 0.37%
Benzyl Acetate- 64.02%
Menthol Crystals- 0.22%
Linalyl Acetate- 0.90%
Benzyl Propionate- 0.70%
Indole- 1.64%
Methyl Anthranilate- 3.37%
Hedione- 0.98%
Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde- 0.96%
Benzyl Benzoate- 3.64%

If you absolutely cannot obtain Laevo Linalool, Feel free to replace Laevo with the racemic mix (regular) Linalool. It will not be as strong though. Laevo Linalool has an odor threshold that is 10 times lower than Dextro Linalool and the ratio of each isomer in regular Linalool is unknown. Last point, using Laevo Linalool will give you a more true to life Jasmine.

[cuallito]

Thanks!

[BAGreat]

More info on Linalool and its isomers.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/linalool/linaloolh.htm

[pkiler]

Interesting! I'm on the fence about making it, as I am allergic to Jasmine(s)... hmmm...

PK

[BAGreat]

Do it! Do it! Do it! *cheers*, you will enjoy it Paul. Take my word for it. Just please keep it away from your skin. I believe you have contact dermatitis from Benzyl Acetate, Benzoate, Salicylate etc. Are you allergic to Tuberose also? Also big point to mention, this accord is mainly a top to mid note with a mothball drydown due to the indole. You can leave the Indole out if you want a clean Jasmine top note to brighten up your white flower EO's and Absolutes.

[DrSmellThis]

Is there a different indole with a better drydown, something more fecal? Perhaps Chris could comment on the drydown note of the sambac absolute? I'll wager it's not mothball.

Thank you so much! That is informative.

[BAGreat]

Is there a different indole with a better drydown, something more fecal? Perhaps Chris could comment on the drydown note of the sambac absolute? I'll wager it's not mothball.

Thank you so much! That is informative.

Yes this is the problem with recreations, the indole never ever smells fecal or animal bad tooth etc. It just smells of mothballs when you add indole as an isolate. No one knows why and it is quite annoying because it sticks out like a sore thumb in blends. You can tell it is a recreation if it smells of mothballs. I recommended leaving it out because you cannot tell it is a recreation that way. If anyone has an indole replacement please comment.

[David Ruskin]

If you have problems getting laevo Linalol, try using Ho Oil which is pretty much the same thing. The main problem with reconstructing anything with a lot of Indole in it, is the Indole. Commercially produced Indole is never as clean and pure (strange descriptors, I know) as the stuff that a plant produces. There are always "off" notes. Try using less.

By the way, pure Benzyl Acetate is not regarded as an allergen (I don't think), but the Benzyl Alcohol always present, is.

BA, have you made this accord yourself?

[pkiler]

If anyone has an indole replacement please comment.

After buying a kilo of Indolarome, this certainly doesn't have the mothball odor of regular Indole...
I'm liking the Indolarome...

PK

[nemenator]

Commercially produced Indole is never as clean and pure (strange descriptors, I know) as the stuff that a plant produces. There are always "off" notes. Try using less.

Or, use the real thing viz Natural Indole https://www.aftelier.com/indole-2-percent.html (I can't find anyone else doing it) is said to have "none of that mothball feel ... instead, it was very toasted and earthy with a waxy, fleshy quality that was highly appealing and yet also oddly off-putting."
http://www.nathanbranch.com/2012/04/...kson-ep-5.html

[BAGreat]

If you have problems getting laevo Linalol, try using Ho Oil which is pretty much the same thing. The main problem with reconstructing anything with a lot of Indole in it, is the Indole. Commercially produced Indole is never as clean and pure (strange descriptors, I know) as the stuff that a plant produces. There are always "off" notes. Try using less.

By the way, pure Benzyl Acetate is not regarded as an allergen (I don't think), but the Benzyl Alcohol always present, is.

BA, have you made this accord yourself?

Yes and it is very delicate and pretty. But again as you said, the indole is a problem. The mothball note is ever present when smelling the accord up close. It smells nearly Identical to Jasmine in the air when comparing it to Jasmine blossoms. One might even mistake it as the real thing if you get whiffs of it unknowingly in the air. The accord has very good diffusion from the blotter, but longevity is fleeting on skin (4 hours). Also a major point I need to mention is it is very thin. I needs some Ylang Ylang or Jasmine absolute, if affordable, in a blend to fatten it up.

[David Ruskin]

After buying a kilo of Indolarome, this certainly doesn't have the mothball odor of regular Indole...
I'm liking the Indolarome...

PK

Just that it doesn't occur in Jasmin.

[DrSmellThis]

So use the amount of regular indole that doesn't mothball, which is the closest you can get to nature anyway. Then make up the difference with indolarome, puchased from Paul.

Another idea is to GC-MS different jasmine absoutes for the highest indole content, and use that one as your natural, since that is the aspect which is hardest to recreate synthetically.

Another idea is to add skatole to the indole in trace amounts, or civettone, or civet, or an ambergris note. Here, you are looking at it as an "indole accord."

Or pull an A. Crowley trick, and add some of your own organic indole. Ha ha. If you don't get it, I'm not going to explain it.

[BAGreat]

I have prepared 100 grams of this accord using standard Linalool. I am selling it for $45 shipped via priority mail.

[Milhaus]

Hi,
PerfumersWorld supply linalool( linalool with citrus and woody notes ) and linalool synthetic ( pure linalool smell ) and they have also Ho oil ( but i afraid the camphor note will kill the accord ). Can you suggest me what linalool source should i choose ?

[Bill Roberts]

When I checked the link nemenator posted, Mandy Aftel was no longer offering her natural indole, but is offering what appears to be most likely laevo-linalool, as it's extracted from ho wood. I'll probably order some. That's the only source I was able to find at the moment.

[Bill Roberts]

Well, a Jasmine sambac absolute GC/MS with Hedione, hexyl cinnamic aldehyde, menthol, and linalyl acetate, and everything reported being a readily-available inexpensive ingredient, which is unheard of for a true natural jasmine. It also has no cis-3-benzyl benzoate. Still further there's no methyl jasmonate, jasmone, farnesene, geranyllinalool, germacra-1-dien-4-ol, or phytol, though with these last few often some will not be seen in a given GC/MS.

In other words, expected signature elements of jasmine sambac are not there, and elements showing synthetic origin are there.

I applaud them for providing the GC/MS. But this GC/MS cannot be taken as representative of jasmine sambac absolute, or of genuine product.

I would more than welcome correction if any of what I suggest should not be there in fact can, or what I suggest should be there but isn't, can in fact not be.

[Macaul]

I tried making this accord by volume, instead of weight ( I know this is not correct)...I found that the benzyl acetate was still extremely overpowering and harsh. The accord was not soft/floral at all...Did you find much better results when doing it by weight? I always seem to run into trouble regarding my abilty to blend benzyl acetate into accords How long did you let your accord age/blend? or did it smell like real jasmine as soon as you were done building this?

Thanks!

[pkiler]

I'd say try it with half the Benzyl acetate and see what you like...?


PK

[Bill Roberts]

I expect it would move it to a fruitier jasmine direction, but a possibility to try would be substituting some of the benzyl acetate with benzyl propionate. While usually GC/MS's don't show benzyl propionate in jasmine, apparently at least one has done so ( https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...73231344,d.b2U ) finding benzyl propionate at about 9.7% and benzyl acetate at about 26.1%.

Although of course there's no stated evidence that the GC/MS of the above scientific article was of authentic essential oil: it was simply a particular commercial product.

I don't think aging or lack of will be the problem here.

It's also already in the above base but at a lower percentage (propanoate is same as propionate.)

Also another idea you can look at is that personally (no information or idea on whether many or any others think or do the same) I often prefer to totally omit certain items from bases, as I'd rather adjust them individually as part of the entire formula. An example would be methyl salicylate. I might build the base with it, and do some work with the base having it, but at some point I may also have a version without the methyl salicylate, and add that ingredient only relative to the entire formula. With your feelings on benzyl acetate, you might try the same. Perhaps adding it in as a last or late step will work better for you.

EDIT: As another thought, perhaps there are different grades of benzyl acetate available. For example, if a given material had a significant amount of unreacted acetic anhydride, it would certainly be sharp. (If synthesized that way: I don't know that it is commercially.) Coincidentally Brechbill's book was brought up recently: he does give different odor descriptions to different grades. I'd guess this is unlikely if you obtained it from a widely used aromachemicals source, but as there was no mention, maybe it's a possibility.

[pkiler]

Here's also a sort of analogue to Benzyl Acetate, is the acetone, Benzyl Acetone, it's not as shrill, but still the same odor profile, or darn close...

PK

[Macaul]

Thanks for all your help. Im using benzyl acetate sourced from the perfumers apprentice, so I would imagine grade should not be an issue. Ive had 3 separate bottles from them, all at different time periods and they all smell the same to me.

What Im finding a little puzzling is the ability for the jasmine flower to synthesize its own oil and release it into the air almost as one seamless note...with little differential between top middle and base notes...(to my untrained nose)

However, when I build an accord of my own, it seems as if the benzyl acetate is jumping off first, leaving the softer base notes behind.

Bill, as you suggested, I think I will create a base that omits the benzyl acetate, and only use it when I find it useful in the full formula.

[jfrater]

Adding to an old thread I know - but I just wanted to say that when I made this up with benzyl acetate (natural) vs synthetic, the difference was huge - the benzyl acetate was far softer and blended much better into the rest of the accord. It's a very fine jasmine.

[Bill Roberts]

I didn't try this particular formula with natural benzyl acetate, but like you I found the natural far superior to the synthetics I had (the exact comparison being, synthetics from PA, CP, and Vigon vs natural from PA.)

Perhaps with the natural benzyl acetate now being a very fine jasmine, this explains the product having been able to cause some to think it was indeed natural.

[jfrater]

I didn't try this particular formula with natural benzyl acetate, but like you I found the natural far superior to the synthetics I had (the exact comparison being, synthetics from PA, CP, and Vigon vs natural from PA.)

Perhaps with the natural benzyl acetate now being a very fine jasmine, this explains the product having been able to cause some to think it was indeed natural.

Personally I don't think it could be confused with a real jasmine absolute without significant tinkering and dirtying up a little. Even with the natural benzyl acetate it still has that sightly manufactured scent about it. Perhaps a few drops of the real deal might make a big difference though.

[Boye1]

Personally I don't think it could be confused with a real jasmine absolute without significant tinkering and dirtying up a little. Even with the natural benzyl acetate it still has that sightly manufactured scent about it. Perhaps a few drops of the real deal might make a big difference though.

I added a trace of real Jasmin sambac abs and it makes an enormous difference indeed!

[Milhaus]

It is not hard to make nice top/head jasmine accord, but i am now working on bottom of my jasmine absolute perfume.
I have in the base:

3 Hexyl cinnamic aldehyde
5 Hedione
1 Hedione Hi Cis
0,1 Delphol HC
0,03 indole

but it needs something sweet/fruity. I am thinking about Dihydrojasmone, but i have not smelled it yet..or maybe little peach aldehyde... ?

[I.D.Adam]

Maybe try nectaryl for a peach note that'll last into the base? At least I find it more persistent than peach aldehyde.

[BAGreat]

Milhaus, use Gamma Decalactone.

[Kacper Kafel]

Bagreat I made you accord. I use indolarome instead indole. Smell good jasmine but very top note. Trick with menthol is very good. Your accord compared to real absolute smell similar but is more sharper, fresher, toppy and no plasticy. Real jasmine have additionally plastic like note and have a slight warmer, sweeter.
Bagreat Where did the idea come from menthol for jasmine?