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  1. #1

    Default PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    PONK is organised regular blind smelling practice for perfumers with a monthly mystery box.

    Module 2 is the second box in this series and this is the thread to post your smelling observations.
    Those of you who do not wish to have a box can still join in but slightly afterwards when the reveals are done.
    This is open house to learn and share information on BN.

    The aim is NOT to guess the mystery ingredients....
    but to use your nose to contemplate it fully without that pressure to recognise the material.

    For this who have ordered one then look out for these landing on your mat soon (I hope)



    As this is the second box, we now know of the timing differences between one country and the next. The ones that got delayed last time will be sent by tracked postage. The UK ones will be arriving first again this time so........

    When you get yours, please do not spoil the fun for those without their boxes by saying what you think it is but by all means do post your thoughts and observations here.

    This time the reveal is within the box in a semi sealed document. Have a bit of fun and test yourself by smelling blind but then it is probably fairly important to actually know what these are this time to be able to make good comparisons.

    I shall post a form with some indicators to look for and think about very soon.

    After this post, then don't read anymore on this thread if yours isn't there yet (unless you want to).

    Just adding this here too so you don't have to read further to get it.



    Press the nose... for the new evaluation sheet to download.

    BTW... Please do NOT test these on your skin but only on smelling strips.

    They are at 20% to give you a decent amount to use afterwards in your own perfumes. That strength is too strong for some of their recommended use in perfumes by EU and IFRA recommendations. These are concentrated chemicals at the end of the day and need respecting as such. Please only use smelling strips until you know what they are and how much to use.

    IMPORTANT - some of these ingredients are considered contra-use for pregnancy, so please use with caution if you are, or are planning to be, pregnant or if you are opening vials within the vicinity of someone who is before the end of their first trimester. They are diluted to 20% and could be diluted again, but if there is any chance you or anyone around you is preggers then please open the reveal and check online for what level is safe to sniff. I will double check too.

    I said I wasn't going to use the IPM again, but two of these went badly cloudy in DPG and didn't in the IPM, so I did use both where relevant, because these materials could take it and have indicated in the reveal which are which.

    We can have a discussion about those who might prefer to dilute in ethanol. These are @20% so could go down to 10% with another solvent for smelling purposes (by adding the same weight again 1:1 for those who don't know this).
    Last edited by mumsy; 2nd March 2016 at 11:46 AM.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

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  2. #2

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Hooray. One of the tracked ones has managed to get to Canada in ordinary time. Phew.

    I changed the destination and postcode to one line for automatic machine readers, so now I will have to send an ordinary one again to see if that is what caused the ag. Maybe it was just a fluke.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

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    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  3. #3

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Mumsy. It arrived today. 7 business days. Not bad.

  4. #4
    rickbr's Avatar
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    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    I have already received mine as well. It was quite fast this time - i was surprised when i arrived home and had a box waiting for me and it was from the ponk club Well, i won't spoil the fun so i will not reveal my impressions right now. The theme on this box is one that i appreciate and upon smelling all the misterious samples i had some interesting scent memories of my childhood comming back. It was a very detailed experience and to not induce anyone i will post mine only after some comments here.

  5. #5

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    When are we allowed to talk about these? I feel like I've been sent out into a herb garden.
    Last edited by bshell; 13th March 2016 at 01:51 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    When you have something to say, then please talk away.....
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

    My Tincture list

    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  7. #7

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    I got mine yesterday!
    Working on #1 as we speak

  8. #8

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Excellent. I love hearing they have arrived safely.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

    My Tincture list

    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  9. #9

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    OK. Here are my observations for Ponk 2. These are just guesses and I did not look at the reveal.

    Is the theme here "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme (with some mint)?"

    1. Foot baths at the pool in the 1950s, pinene, basil, chamomile? After 2 hours, barely noticeable sweet smell reminiscent of hippy shop. 12 hours: very slight hint of spice.

    2. Herbal, medicated soap, thyme, myrrh, anti-fungal agent on mandarin orange boxes. Carrot seed, Hyssop? After 2 hours: faint slightly herbal. 12 HRs: ever so slight plastic smell

    3. menthol, mint. After 2 hours: warmer, sweeter and more mellow but still minty.

    4. Helichrysum, herbal, clary sage, possibly basil, chavocol, chamomile? After 2 hours, lovely and fresh, green, strongly herbal. 12 HR. Very slight smell of bandages. 12 HR: essentially gone.

    5. Stronger than 4, Lavender? camphoraceous, After 2 hours not so strong. 12 HR gone.

    6. Cinnamon red hot hearts, cinnamic aldehyde, cassia? After 2 hours still very strong. 12 HR: gone

    I have now looked at the reveal and am embarrassed that I missed a couple of these. A couple others I'd never really spent much time smelling so they were unfamiliar. My question is: what was the goal here? In ponk 1 there was a definite theme. I'm just wondering what the theme was meant to be here?

  10. #10

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    I personally don't think it is necessary to have an obvious theme to each box of unknowns. Indeed it may be argued that smelling a variety of ingredients with very similar smells can be counter-productive. Smelling a load of citrus notes, for example, one after the other, will confuse and tire the nose. Far better to have contrasting smells, then your nose will tire less. However I am not in charge ( thanks goodness!).

    The aim of this exercise is not to identify the unknowns. It does not matter if you have smelled the samples before or are unfamiliar with them. The idea is to learn how to smell; to ask yourself the questions that will help you describe these unknowns, and learn how to recognise them.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 14th March 2016 at 01:54 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    I personally don't think it is necessary to have an obvious theme to each box of unknowns. Indeed it may be argues that smelling a variety of ingredients with very similar smells can be counter-productive. Smelling a load of citrus notes, for example, one after the other, will confuse and tire the nose. Far better to have contrasting smells, then your nose will tire less. However I am not in charge ( thanks goodness!).

    The aim of this exercise is not to identify the unknowns. It does not matter if you have smelled the samples before or are unfamiliar with them. The idea is to learn how to smell; to ask yourself the questions that will help you describe these unknowns, and learn how to recognise them.
    I think it can and it cannot be. You just need to smell them with a space between each order to not tire the nose. I'm enjoying smelling things in a series since doing this blindly is helping me revealling nuances in a special group of essentials oils that otherwise it would have gone unnoticed to me.

  12. #12

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    The idea behind these oils was 'uplifting' (and healing if you believe in the aromatherapy side of things). They do have very similar aromatic profiles in many ways and the smelling exercise is to examine the differences and identify why. The actual identification is not yet the purpose, although in this case much more suitable to know, hence why the reveal is within the box this time.

    They all have many similarities to my mind/nose, but are very different when side by side. As a perfume ingredient, then the perfumery effect being created by these oils could probably be considered as cooling or cold when applied to a blend. This is up for discussion and smelling observations made here by everyone.

    I am preparing a set of GC analysis stats. I shall put these on a separate thread like before, so those who are not ready for that information yet can save it for later.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

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    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  13. #13

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickbr View Post
    I think it can and it cannot be. You just need to smell them with a space between each order to not tire the nose. I'm enjoying smelling things in a series since doing this blindly is helping me revealling nuances in a special group of essentials oils that otherwise it would have gone unnoticed to me.
    Once again we must agree to differ. In my experience of learning to smell ingredients, and teaching others to do the same, I found that giving very different smells one after the other made the smelling period last longer before fatigue set in. Once you are adept then, of course, it is possible to smell similar odours for longer, and to compare and contrast. For a beginner I would vary the type of odour. I remember trying to show a set of Citrus notes, and again the aliphatic aldehydes, when it was an uphill struggle. It was obvious to me that several of my students were struggling because of the similarity of odour types.

  14. #14

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    In this particular module, I think it is important fairly soon after just enjoying them for their own differences, to feel free to identify them using the reveal slip in the boxes.

    Observing materials with the particular abstraction delight involved with a blind sniff, mean that they can be looked at without preconceptions and that has it's own values of mental freedom. However the similarities between each of these mean that the nuances are probably better learned with more knowledge than with less in this particular case.

    It would be interesting to attach a mental colour to these. I wonder what a consensus would be on that.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Once again we must agree to differ. In my experience of learning to smell ingredients, and teaching others to do the same, I found that giving very different smells one after the other made the smelling period last longer before fatigue set in. Once you are adept then, of course, it is possible to smell similar odours for longer, and to compare and contrast. For a beginner I would vary the type of odour. I remember trying to show a set of Citrus notes, and again the aliphatic aldehydes, when it was an uphill struggle. It was obvious to me that several of my students were struggling because of the similarity of odour types.
    I'm not disagreeing about the fatigue itself, but if you are able to work around it the experience is revealing, at least for this set. But i know that smelling similar ingredients might produce what you mentioned. I had this problem when i did a sequence of sampling with different lavenders. It was very hard for me to see their contrasts.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    I first sent my impressions to mumsy through email to see if i wouldn't spoil the fun with what i wrote. She thought it was ok for me to sharing it with the group right now, so i'm just posting my email here:

    "Hi Fran! It seems that the tracking worked this time, so i have already received my package. It's here with me today, it was great to arrived at home and receive it so soon!

    I have the impression that i'm one of the first to receive it, so if you don't mind i'm going to send you in private my impressions and then i will further post it on the thread. I want to do this in order to not spoil the fun because i have a very clear and focused impression of what is each thing on this box. I'm fond of the theme you worked here - cooling, minty and camphoraceous aromas and how they work in different herbs and i isolated synthetics (i think, since i haven't opened the envelope yet).

    My suspicion is that this is on a scale of intensity from this icy aspect which shows very different on each sample. I would classify the differences this way:

    1) This is certainly for me the smooth of the package, it's not sharp or as my teacher of natural essential oils used to tell me, "fincudo" (which i would translate as nail-y maybe). Diluted it's not dominant but i have already smelled a fragrance with something like this and i know it's a powerful material. It has a citrus, lemon like and sugary boozy nuance and reminds me liqueur sugary candy. There was one which had a tart lemon and anise flavor that reminds me a lot this one. I don't know if you have something like it on UK:

    http://www.servisul.com.br/imagem/in...85/G/20275.png

    2) This one is certainly for me in the thyme family if it's not thyme itself. I love this herb and i tried to used it on fragrances at higher percentages but this herb is very "fincuda", rough. It has that medicine and burnt like smell that you will get at supermarket when you enter the car's tire section. It's an interesting but at the same time tiresome aroma. It's less smoth and not so minty or camphoraceous than the other aromas, but you can certainly get the nuance at the background.

    3) Is for me it's a mint properly. I suspect it's a watermint maybe because it has a slightly sweet undertone with the cooling aroma. It smells like the spearmint candys of my childhood and i loved their smell. Again, see that i'm going back to my childhood memories of candies and mint nuances. This might explain why i love them. Usually people associate it with toothpast but i love mint aromas and i'm wondering now if it's my association with minty candies.

    4) I suspect that this one is inside the artemisia family and might be artemisia officinalis. It has a kind of green plasticity that i only get on some members of artemisia family (specially the one i mentioned and artemisia absinthum which is even more bitter and green plastic like). If we could give colors to it this one would certainly be a dark green color. If you breath heavily you get the mint nuance, altough not as icy as the third sample. Altough plastic it doesn't have a burnt nuance like the 2 but it's as hard to use as it.

    5) At first i had some struggle to identify this one. My first impression was: slightly soapy, neroli like, with something like lavender or linalool. Then i smelled all, had a dinner, smelled again, had a break and the image formed on my mind. Besides all those nuances i could get a green, leafy and coniferous shape. Also, suddenly i had again a childhood image with this material. My grandma used to have those candy at home and she kept them to the times when you had a sore throat or a cold. But i as a kid loved those candies so i usually got some from her when she wasn't looking. The smell of this vial reminds me the eucalyptus smell of this candy.

    6) This one i'm pretty convinced that it's methyl salicylate. I have already smelled it isolated ans also i'm used with this smell because i had sinus once i was a kid and i had a lot of pain in my legs when i was a teenager. Also, i had a stress related low back pain some time ago and i had a phase that to relieve it i relied a lot on patches and spray products that has methyl salicylate. For me, it's the most sharp, icy and powerful of this set. This one quickly dominates the nose and cool it even if you are only smelling it. THe smell is quite interesting, but it has all those sick episodes in my memories.

    Again, sorry for going through them so fast instead of smelling each one isolated. I needed to register all my impressions before i lost them - sometimes your best ideas are the first ones."

  17. #17

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Posting my impressions before I read the reveal:
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末

    #1

    Minty, anisic, dusty. Fennel seeds, star anise. Chinese supermarket. A bit earthy. Spicy. Slightly rooty (carrot/orris). Sweet undertone. Toothpaste. Somewhat medicinal.

    Colour suggested: Pale green, brown

    Pleasant enough.

    Medium strength. Medium projection.

    Lots of familiar facets.

    10 mins: slightly soapy - creamy undertone. Biting, spicy anisic note.
    20 mins: sweeter, white pepper note.
    30 mins: more rounded, sweet
    60 mins: sweet, slightly balsamic undertone.
    2 hrs: much weaker. Creamy sweet, slightly minty.
    3 hrs: very weak.
    6 hrs: very weak, non-descript.
    10hrs: faint minty.

    Smelling again just now: Minty top, fennel / anise, fruity undertone

    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末

    #2

    Mint. Dirty petrol smell. Like the mint in my garden (not sure what type - doesn't smell particularly pepperminty or spearminty). Quite sinister. Reminds me of boats, the sea (petrol smell maybe?) Reminds me of sea-sick feeling.

    Colour / image suggested: Dark blue-green sea, blinding reflection of sun.

    Not "classicly" pleasant to me. Quite dirty, dark, a bit headache inducing (oily-petroly facet).

    High strength, high projection.

    Very familiar and evocative.

    10 mins: a little bit earthier perhaps
    20 mins: oily... whiskey?
    30 mins: much weaker
    60 mins: very much weaker
    2 hrs: practically gone
    3 hrs: gone

    Smelling again just now: oily petroly mint.

    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末

    #3

    "After Eight" chocolates. Peppermint. Sweet, clean, minty, tasty. No "dirty" notes. Would be great for flavouring.

    Colour suggested: bright clean mint green.

    Very pleasant. Reminds me of mint chocolates and peppermint tea.

    High strength. High projection.

    Extremely familiar.

    10 mins: not much change.
    20 mins: weaker, not much change.
    50 mins: weaker, not much change, but still reasonably strong.
    2 hrs: still very present. Less sweet now? Still very clean peppermint note.
    6 hrs: still present.
    12 hrs: still peppermint.
    24 hrs: much weaker, but still detectable
    36 hrs: very faint, perhaps a slightly lactonic note?

    Smelling again just now: peppermint
    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末

    #4

    Cooling, slightly medicinal, fresh, eucalyptus, herbal, bracing. Tropical fruity (mango?) nuance. Little bit of a methyl benzoate nuance? Anti-dandruff shampoo (tea-tree, eucalyptus etc.). Fruity jasmine (jasmone) tone - celery seed.

    Colour suggested: pale green / silver.

    Not very pleasant, just OK.

    Medium strength. Medium projection.

    Fairly familiar.

    10 mins: weaker. Slightly less bracing, more sweet, fruity.
    30 mins: " "
    3 hrs: very weak, slightly fruity, medicinal note.
    6 hrs: almost nothing.

    Smelling again just now: Eucalyptus, tea tree, Vick's Vaporub.

    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末

    #5

    Sharp, spicy mint. Less sweet compared to #3, #1. "Hot" minty as opposed to "cool" minty. More medicinal and bracing compared to #3; less edible (although could be used in mints or chewing gum?) Slightly citrusy (lemon) and olibanum nuances. Horseradish type of sharpness.

    Colour suggested: white.

    Not very pleasant for me.

    Medium strength. Medium projection.

    Familiarity: somewhat familiar, but not very. Hot mints? Throat lozenges?

    20 mins: not much change. Boiled lemon sweet / throat lozenge note?
    1 hr: very weak, slightly lemony or citronella-like.
    6 hrs: gone

    Smelling again just now: Hot, sharp mint. A little bit like Vick's Vaporub again. Bleach or chlorine note?

    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末

    #6

    Wintergreen / methyl salicylate note. Sweet, cooling, medicinal. Germolene (ointment), Deep Heat (muscle rub). Tuberose. Somewhat spicy.

    Colour suggested: white, pink, bright green.

    Fairly pleasant. Associated more with medical products, but an interesting, stimulating smell.

    Medium-high strength. Medium-high projection.

    Very familiar (aforementioned products).

    15 mins: still present, not much change.
    1 hr: weaker
    3 hrs: still very detectable.
    6 hrs: much weaker, but still detectable.
    15 hrs: just detectable.
    24 hrs: gone.

    Smelling again just now: Wintergreen, cooling, floral.

    末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末末 末
    Last edited by Renegade; 14th March 2016 at 07:23 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    I shall prepare the GC readings on a separate reveal thread so that those who are not at this stage do not feel hurried. It is fascinating where these overlap.


    LINK to results here. Do not look if you don't want to know. There is no hurry with these.
    Last edited by mumsy; 16th March 2016 at 02:54 PM.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

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  19. #19

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    delete
    Last edited by fragrantregard; 24th February 2020 at 01:16 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Marvellous. That was partially the idea that you smelled and thought you knew it. Then smelled the next and wondered. Then challenged from then on what you thought you know because they were similar.

    I was thinking that a nice challenge later could be to try these in the top of a fougere and notice what differences the types of uplifting characteristics make to the base.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

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    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  21. #21

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Hi!

    My module 2 made it to Utah today!

    I'm a late joiner to this project. I still need to properly write up and post my impressions from module 1, but am excited to keep going with these exercises!

    Quick sniffs at work of the first two vials...

    #1 herbal, minty, marjoram?

    #2 New car smell, mixed with mentholatum.

    Interesting!
    Last edited by Elizf; 16th March 2016 at 11:22 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    delete
    Last edited by fragrantregard; 24th February 2020 at 01:17 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    I love these descriptions. I've been digging out some interesting formulas to play with them after these sniffings. I really think these notes are often overlooked. They have very many interesting aspects once the nose has got past their minty/camphorous notes.

    On the reveals, I have tried to indicate what is in what so their similarities are explained. Reminds me... I have a correction to make too.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

    My Tincture list

    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  24. #24

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Ponk 2 has made it to Tennessee today. That is good that it has got there safely but it is another long postage of 19 days. These are being sent first class so not making the target time that Royal Mail specify of 5-7 days.

    I'm just deliberating whether to send two boxes at once soonish to make sure we have one to smell and one in hand but don't want to overload people with too many in a queue.

    PONK 3's are being assembled now. I think we will discuss the postage timings and suchlike after the third box. Many took on the first quarter to just see how they liked it. It will make a good pause for thought.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

    My Tincture list

    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients

  25. #25

    Default Re: PONK Module 2 - odour descriptions here (spoiler alert past post1)

    Loads of nice PMs and emails to me on these, but don't be afraid to post them here. This isn't a competition nor a place of judgement.

    It's just a bit of nose fun and much more interesting to discuss together rather than just with me in private.
    The PONK club - gymnosium for perfumers (NOTE:- All club matters still on hold whilst I care for my dad now.)

    Twitter - @PonkClub for regular twitter updates

    My Tincture list

    A perfumed life - Tinctures, perfumes, cordials, wines and ingredients




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