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  1. #1
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    pkiler's Avatar
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    Default Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    "Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation, i.​e. jasmine essential oil, as defined by ISO 3218 “Essential oils. Principles of nomencla*ture,” does not exist as a commercial product."

    Great article on Jasmine in P&F:


    https://www.perfumerflavorist.com/fr...901B2476689B3F
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    If it still gets distilled, then they should be allowed to call it an essential oil... some places have resorted to calling this enfleurage to clear up the difference, but it's not... why do they not just say solvent extracted - are people scared of the hexane?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    I think they call it essential oil to boost sales and lump it in with the rest, same goes with many other plant extracts.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    You would think they would say cold process that is a big deal to retain aroma, they could maybe make more by dividing into cold process oils, or at least highlighting that on a label.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Sorry, I don't know if it exists or if it is just merchandising, but here in Italy they sell it, clear pale yellow liquid with the most powerful Jasmine scent I ever smelled, it's intoxicating in a 5% perfume, i also have the dark and viscous absolute, and it is nothing in comparison, just one drop is enough to impart its distinctive smell. They sell it in small family driven shops in South of Italy and i don't know how they obtain it, but they call it essential oil and it is very light, fluid and pale yellow, I can assure, I never smelled something so close to the real thing, it absolutely isn't pomade because it is perfectly soluble in alcohol.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Apparently, In the Industry, It is true.
    but some small aromatherapy company said they sell jasmine essential oil with steam distillation.
    I have never buy them because they are too expensive though...
    are those really genuine jasmine essential oils?
    and Calice Becker mentioned about Jasmine Infusion(extract with alcohol), which also too unstable to use for normal perfumery(as far as I know), but she said it is in Water Calligraphy by Kilian...

  7. #7

    Question Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    Sorry, I don't know if it exists or if it is just merchandising, but here in Italy they sell it, clear pale yellow liquid with the most powerful Jasmine scent I ever smelled, it's intoxicating in a 5% perfume, i also have the dark and viscous absolute, and it is nothing in comparison, just one drop is enough to impart its distinctive smell. They sell it in small family driven shops in South of Italy and i don't know how they obtain it, but they call it essential oil and it is very light, fluid and pale yellow, I can assure, I never smelled something so close to the real thing, it absolutely isn't pomade because it is perfectly soluble in alcohol.
    As far as I know, you made pomade and wash them with alcohol, then extract(absoulte) mixed with alcohol, and you blown them(fats and alcohol) up, then only extract remained. we called them as Absolute. So absolutes are soluble with alcohol.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    I'm sure I saw a table previously which had 'steam distillation yields' with maxima values for various materials.

    Jasmine was on there but it's yield was approx 0.06% MAX, so about half (if you're lucky) of what you'd extract with an absolute. I.e. it's less cost-effective to go down the steam distillation route for such a poor yield.

    I'll see if I can relocate that source, though I'd imagine it'd have to be taken with a pinch of salt anyway.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Sorry guys, as I sayd before, I don't know how they extract it, I just know it's not absolute, and I think it's not enfleurage because they sell it in normal essential oil bottles, it has not the consistency of alcohol, it has no alcoholic background and it is one of the most powerful materials I ever smelled. As I sayd they sell a 5% perfume and it is really the closest thing to the real flower and intoxicating, just one spray and u smell of true Jasmine the whole day. Aniway, as I sayd they are small family driven companies and they do that in the same way for generations, so I don't thing cost/effectivity is an issue for them XD

  10. #10

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    Sorry guys, as I sayd before, I don't know how they extract it, I just know it's not absolute, and I think it's not enfleurage because they sell it in normal essential oil bottles, it has not the consistency of alcohol, it has no alcoholic background and it is one of the most powerful materials I ever smelled. As I sayd they sell a 5% perfume and it is really the closest thing to the real flower and intoxicating, just one spray and u smell of true Jasmine the whole day. Aniway, as I sayd they are small family driven companies and they do that in the same way for generations, so I don't thing cost/effectivity is an issue for them XD
    Are they selling it 10ml quantities or what? Can you give us an idea of the price?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    I remember it was a 10ml for what I can recall back in high school, I don't remember the price too much time as passed, but it wasn't affordable for me at the time; now I have a bottle from a different source, but it is a 5ml for 8, 5€ and I can say it's eavily adulterated with benzil alcohol and benzile acetate, because I can totally identify the note, but even so much adulterated it's really powerful, thought not so much and so beautiful as the one I smelled in locride. Surly mine is from an hold, very adulterated buch XD

  12. #12

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    I remember it was a 10ml for what I can recall back in high school, I don't remember the price too much time as passed, but it wasn't affordable for me at the time; now I have a bottle from a different source, but it is a 5ml for 8, 5€ and I can say it's eavily adulterated with benzil alcohol and benzile acetate, because I can totally identify the note, but even so much adulterated it's really powerful, thought not so much and so beautiful as the one I smelled in locride. Surly mine is from an hold, very adulterated buch XD
    That is too cheap for the absolute by a factor of 10 and cannot be the hypothetical essential oil a fortiori. As you say they are very strong and also beautiful and like smelling the flower, the indication is that they are not dilutions of the absolute. They sound to me like synthetic imitations/skillfully made fragrance oils at low or nil dilution.

    I am surprised you can smell benzyl alcohol, which has a faint odour, in the midst of a powerful scent. Benzyl acetate is bound to be present in an imitation and in the absolute.

    Many of us spend our time trying, with more or less success (much less in my case), to make this sort of thing; so I'm not saying don't enjoy those beautiful oils.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Sorry, but u are not thinking in an Italian, traditional way, I'm sure mine is adulterated, but it is indeed real eo, just in a 0.2/0.5 % solution, and the rest is just a base eavy on benzoyl compounds, but the real one I smelled in locride is 100% natural, I'm sure of that. No base can be so strong, rich and well formulated. Anyway sometimes here in Italy u can find very good sales, as old buchs have to be eliminated. For exemple I found an 11€ 10ml pure sandalwood oil and a 6€ 5 ml Melissa oil, or a 10€ 5ml magnolia flower oil. I just got lucky. Anyway the eo is very different from the absolute I have, since it is only flower, no powdery, waxy, honey, green aspects.

    That sayd if this really is a reconstruction (sold as eo in pharmacy) then they did really a great job ��������

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    No base can be so strong, rich and well formulated.
    I'm not sure that a Master Perfumer, or even a very talented Perfumer would agree with you there...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    , I'm sure mine is adulterated, but it is indeed real eo, just in a 0.2/0.5 % solution, and the rest is just a base
    I'm just going to pick up on this bit. 0.2% or even 0.5% essential oil in a mixture (1 part in 500 or 1 part in 200), you would call the whole mixture real essential oil, albeit "adulterated"? (I'm deleting the rest; I could "furthermore" ad nauseum.)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    It is just speculation, for what I know it can just be a bad buch and they want to get rid of it by underpricing, I have no way to know, usually a 4% dilution is around the price I payed, and as I sayd before, I bought it in a pharmacy as pure essential oil, pharmacies here in Italy cant sell one thing for another, they risk too much, it's fraud.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    This is what the pharmacy says:

    "Tipo di preparato: Assoluta naturale 100% Ottenuto con la distillazione al vapore dai fiori della pianta di JASMINUM OFFICINALE.

    Origine: Francia

    Titolo: 20-30% benzyl acetate; 10-15% phytol; <0.15 methyl anthranylate"

    They call it absolute by steam distillation of the flowers and they market it as eo, so by steam distillation of the flowers is an eo and not an abs.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    This is what the pharmacy says:

    "Tipo di preparato: Assoluta naturale 100% Ottenuto con la distillazione al vapore dai fiori della pianta di JASMINUM OFFICINALE.

    Origine: Francia

    Titolo: 20-30% benzyl acetate; 10-15% phytol; <0.15 methyl anthranylate"

    They call it absolute by steam distillation of the flowers and they market it as eo, so by steam distillation of the flowers is an eo and not an abs.
    Thank you. Absolute by steam distillation makes no sense to me. I'd be curious to know the brand. Sometimes one can find information about a brand's other offerings which sheds some light on the product in question.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alysoun View Post
    Thank you. Absolute by steam distillation makes no sense to me. I'd be curious to know the brand. Sometimes one can find information about a brand's other offerings which sheds some light on the product in question.
    Sure, the link where u can find it is www.farmaciavernile.it
    But it is all in Italian, it has a section dedicated to essential oils (of a really good quality I have to say)

  20. #20

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    Sure, the link where u can find it is www.farmaciavernile.it
    But it is all in Italian, it has a section dedicated to essential oils (of a really good quality I have to say)
    What I see there is that the detailed descriptions of the products in the essential oils category seem to be written by different people, apparently whatever the respective supplier has volunteered with no overall quality control of the information by the brand. I don't know what to make of the jasmine product being named as extract and absolute according to INCI and CTFA conventions, and then for the preparation method to be as you quoted. I don't even know whether "naturale pura assoluta" and "assoluta naturale 100%" mean that the product is 100% absolute ie undiluted or 100% natural. Being very much non-Italian, I think the brand should be ensuring better communication about the nature of the product. But that sort of control costs money, and perhaps its absence results in a better quality product being supplied for the given price, and local customers prefer it that way.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Here there is no CTFA, products for cosmetics have to be tested in laboratories by experts, if they are good they can place them on the market, if the products are harmful and are also placed on the market the health ministery itself sends the NAS and forces the product out of the market after some further inspection, and anyway here INCI is mandatory, but in an essential oil u can't put an INCI, because it's just one ingredient, so some people takes advantage of that, but it's not that easy to fool the sistem. If someone complains they make controls. That's after segnalation by users (who by the way segnalate everything for no reason),

  22. #22

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by nickname già in uso View Post
    Here there is no CTFA, products for cosmetics have to be tested in laboratories by experts, if they are good they can place them on the market, if the products are harmful and are also placed on the market the health ministery itself sends the NAS and forces the product out of the market after some further inspection, and anyway here INCI is mandatory, but in an essential oil u can't put an INCI, because it's just one ingredient, so some people takes advantage of that, but it's not that easy to fool the sistem. If someone complains they make controls. That's after segnalation by users (who by the way segnalate everything for no reason),
    I'm just referring to what it said on the website you linked, on the page for the jasmine product it said "INCI name" and "CTFA name" (or actually the Italian for "name"; I looked at both the original and the Google translation of the website).

  23. #23

    Default Re: Jasmine does not yield an oil by steam distillation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alysoun View Post
    I'm just referring to what it said on the website you linked, on the page for the jasmine product it said "INCI name" and "CTFA name" (or actually the Italian for "name"; I looked at both the original and the Google translation of the website).
    Yes, perhaps they are referring to French or even American standards, sometimes when the things are not clear in Europe, we tend to use definitions of other countrys (especially if they sell outside Italy)




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