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  1. #301
    Super Member joe king's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibiGotIt View Post

    Anyway, isn't Feel Oud his purely "oriental" project?

    .
    Feel Oud is primarily about oud oil distillations, it is Adam and Dimitry's first company set up to sell oud oil .
    They progressed to distilling different materials and producing some attars but it is predominantly about the oud.

  2. #302

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    What is it with the package going merry go round? arrived at NYC Gateway on Thursday, went to Franklin Park IL then Cincinnati Hub in Ohio on Friday, then came back to NYC Gateway again on Saturday, I'm guessing it's going to go back to Hong Kong SAR on Sunday, then on Monday it would get en-route to KL Malaysia, then take the boat to cross the pacific ocean to get here in another two weeks?

  3. #303

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    I am awaiting a bottle of Al-Jazaab - I probably got the last one before it sold out.
    SHELTER IN PLACE WARDROBE • mugler kryptomint • rook undergrowth • no. 1 kosmala tonic blanc • bohemian lime • sumo j scent • aventus cologne • nautica voyage • moschino pour homme • sancti liquides imaginaires • smn patchouli • menthe fraiche • under my skin • phuong dang artist • dior homme sport '12

  4. #304
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Taha has already demonstrated an incredible amount of creativity when he released a series of Attars geared toward French perfumery. I’ve sampled Cuir Chypre, Cuir et Bois, and Oud Fougere and all are stunning compositions I would put up against anyone’s rendition of a classic Chypre or a Fougere. What I would think he would do, as with the Attars is to use a certain Oud to create the proper base for the genre. Cuir Chypre used an Indian Oud to create an effect similar to a traditional Chypre, Cuir et Bois used a Thai Oud and Oud Fougere uses a (region unknown, but I think Malaysian) Oud to create a green base fougères are known for.

    I believe we will see a lot of people becoming interested in sampling the diversity of scents available in Oud who wouldn’t normally give Oud a chance because they associate it with a very specific scent profile; there’s 1000s of different scent profiles of Oud, depending on the region and the distillation style. Most of the people on this thread likely know this, but the average fraghead (i think) has one idea in their mind about what Oud smells like and that’s very far from the reality. It also comes back around to Taha’s point in the video in saying his main motive is to get more people to give pure Oud a spot in their wardrobe, when it wouldn’t normally be.
    Last edited by zeedubbya; 20th September 2020 at 09:05 AM.
    Currently wearing: Agar Attar by Agar Aura

  5. #305
    Dependent bigbloke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    I’ve always been a big fan of Taha’s attars so when I heard of the first collection it was a given I’d get all 3.

    Here are my thoughts so far:

    Soryo No Kaori
    Opens with tobacco and intense spices.
    Like being in a colourful spice bazaar in Morocco or somewhere.
    Reminded me of Baghdad which was an old attar Taha did around 6 years ago. After a short while the spices settle down and it’s like wearing a fine Japanese incense. Reminds me a little of another Taha attar called Java.

    The spray was a little less than a full power spray as is often the case when spraying a bottle for the first time. No alcohol detected whatsoever so the concentration is super high.

    I’m not sure why but after about 5 mins I felt quite relaxed wearing this. I know Taha is quite big on the therapeutic elements of oud but not sure how/if he has integrated it in this.

    This is fantastic. Very addictive. Spices, tobacco, cola, incense, may be some frankincense.
    Drydown is a similar affair, spices toned down a little and with a saffron like piercing note.
    Soro is intense but calming at the same time. Your nose is kept busy throughout. I’m finding it difficult to clearly pick out the oud so it’s not an oud dominant fragrance. I suspect it’s a Malaysian oud used - self distilled of course (not bought elsewhere and poured in). There is a sweet and bitter interplay consistently present through the development of the scent, almost as if deliberately layered like that. Very natural smelling as to be expected - only naturals used. The spritz lasted around 10 hours, surviving the night, a hand wash and a shower.


    An honest side point: I’m sceptical when people (especially oud distillers) jump on the perfume making bandwagon as it isn’t really everybody’s forte. I’m very happy to say that Soro isn’t something haphazardly put together. It’s well blended, potent and complex. Taha’s attars are some of the best available out there, they’re really that good, and the transition to spray form is a successful one. At no point did I think this is rough, blending needs work and so on. Price point may be a consideration for some; you are getting what you pay for
    *********

    Al Jazzab
    Exotic spices for the opening, transitioning to a spicy, peppery rose quickly.
    This is a Rose Oud but unlike anything I’ve tried previously.
    Rose is green and fresh but not too much. During the opening phase the Rose is briefly very rich and full if that makes sense, sort of like thick velvet rather than thin cotton.
    Comes across a little similar to Soryo. Both have spices with focal points shifted. I understand that the spices in Jazzab are due to the Malaysian oud used which was particularly spicy and peppery and not actual spices added to the composition.

    The oud also has hints of earth with touches of citrus/orange peel. We are talking top quality oud here of the non-funky, barnyard variety. If you haven’t smelt this oud profile by itself you may not be able to pick it. That probably is the biggest challenge for noses that haven’t experienced different oud styles.

    Al Jazzab has a masculine edge to it, not to put off any females of course, but it’s not the typical soft, sweet Rose Oud affair, nor is it a mainstream designer concoction.

    The marrying of the oud and rose is unique in this fragrance, which in my opinion is totally due to the oud used. To preserve the scent of the oud, the rose isn’t all powerful and dominant. I believe the aim here was to achieve a balance between the rose and oud in particular (in preference to other notes) so that each can display its best side or particular facets, rather than one being the star and the other the sidekick.

    Composed completely of naturals I can see the spicy elements being toned down over time and the rose becoming more dominant.

    I don’t have the notes for these so it really is a case of deciphering and going by recognition, but hopefully you’ll get an overall feel.
    ********

    Kinam Attar
    Oud, oud and oud dominate the opening. Oh, and a little clove and spice.
    No barnyard, just different oud oils with varying scents.
    Oud novice or veteran, this is a treat for your nose.

    Kinam is a term thrown around a lot. I’ll leave you to do your own research as to what it is and why it is so valued. It is aptly used in this perfume.

    I have never tried an oud perfume like this before. It is unique. I’m quite sure nothing like this exists elsewhere in spray form. It actually does smell like a type of Kinam (there are multiple).

    Kinam Attar is medicinal, mentholy, with something ever so slightly indolic. Hints of vanilla and milk. Some spices in the background to support the oud. Touches of cola and green jungle.
    After some time I swear I pick up a bubblegum note!

    Drydown is splendid, consisting of resinous citrus sweetness. I can’t stop sniffing!
    This is the clear standout from the 1st collection.
    Worth the price tag? Yes from me.

    *********
    Note: I’m expecting all 3 fragrances to change over the next few months due to being all natural. Not major changes, but some aspects to be more prominent and others to take a back seat. These are first impressions based on one wearing, except for Al Jazzab which I have tried twice (picked up the rose more easily second time round).
    Prices Reduced!UK Only:UK Only:Misc/Roja/Cartier/etc...



    Current favourites:
    Frederic Malle The Night
    Roja Dove Semi Bespoke 14
    Roja Dove Roja (Haute Luxe)
    Kilian Eternal Oud
    Chanel Cuir de Russie Parfum
    Roja Dove Great Britain
    Nabeel Spirit of Dubai Baz

  6. #306

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbloke View Post
    I’ve always been a big fan of Taha’s attars so when I heard of the first collection it was a given I’d get all 3.

    Here are my thoughts so far [...]
    Wow, huge thanks for this. Waiting for a bottle of Soryo, and this just raised my expectations through the roof!

  7. #307
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    I received my Kinam Attar earlier today. I was worried about leakage. None to be detected, thank Allah.

    First impressions: this is the most straightforward (still complex) oud EDP I've had the opportunity to try. I've never smelled kinam before, so my impressions are based on a different set of scent memories and experiences than others may have. First, I get a lot of wood, a bit of spice, vanilla and INCENSE. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the last. While other oud oils and EDPs smell animalic, leather, sour, etc., this perfume captures the scent of a gently burning oud chip more than anything I've smelled. That does not make it smoky, no, this is oud incense. I'm surprised by the vanilla qualities. This may not read as vanilla to others, but I always smell a soft, creamy vanilla whenever I burn oud chips. That quality is in Kinam Attar. I'm not getting any citrus or fruit just yet. Perhaps on the drydown.

    Finally, this perfume reminds me of an oud I purchased nearly a decade ago in Kerala, India, from a road-side attar shop with large pictures of Gulf royalty adorning the shop (many Gulf Arabs vacation in Kerala, it seems). That oud, whose provenance I either don't recall or was never told, smelled nearly identical to this, only much less powerful. When others (unaccustomed to oud) smelled it on me, they said that I smelled like church incense, in the best way. Not the frankincense terpene qualities, the gentle smoke and spice qualities.

    This was worth every penny. It is a treasure in my collection. I will be buying ouds and attars from Taha, and hopefully, perfumes from his next release. Now I wish I had the chance to experience Al-Jazzab and especially Soryo.

  8. #308

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibiGotIt View Post
    I received my Kinam Attar earlier today. I was worried about leakage. None to be detected, thank Allah.

    First impressions: this is the most straightforward (still complex) oud EDP I've had the opportunity to try. I've never smelled kinam before, so my impressions are based on a different set of scent memories and experiences than others may have. First, I get a lot of wood, a bit of spice, vanilla and INCENSE. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the last. While other oud oils and EDPs smell animalic, leather, sour, etc., this perfume captures the scent of a gently burning oud chip more than anything I've smelled. That does not make it smoky, no, this is oud incense. I'm surprised by the vanilla qualities. This may not read as vanilla to others, but I always smell a soft, creamy vanilla whenever I burn oud chips. That quality is in Kinam Attar. I'm not getting any citrus or fruit just yet. Perhaps on the drydown.

    Finally, this perfume reminds me of an oud I purchased nearly a decade ago in Kerala, India, from a road-side attar shop with large pictures of Gulf royalty adorning the shop (many Gulf Arabs vacation in Kerala, it seems). That oud, whose provenance I either don't recall or was never told, smelled nearly identical to this, only much less powerful. When others (unaccustomed to oud) smelled it on me, they said that I smelled like church incense, in the best way. Not the frankincense terpene qualities, the gentle smoke and spice qualities.

    This was worth every penny. It is a treasure in my collection. I will be buying ouds and attars from Taha, and hopefully, perfumes from his next release. Now I wish I had the chance to experience Al-Jazzab and especially Soryo.
    Your review is the first one that really makes me sad to miss this. I love the creamy vanilla sweetness in gently heating Brunei chips.

  9. #309
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibiGotIt View Post
    I received my Kinam Attar earlier today. I was worried about leakage. None to be detected, thank Allah.

    First impressions: this is the most straightforward (still complex) oud EDP I've had the opportunity to try. I've never smelled kinam before, so my impressions are based on a different set of scent memories and experiences than others may have. First, I get a lot of wood, a bit of spice, vanilla and INCENSE. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the last. While other oud oils and EDPs smell animalic, leather, sour, etc., this perfume captures the scent of a gently burning oud chip more than anything I've smelled. That does not make it smoky, no, this is oud incense. I'm surprised by the vanilla qualities. This may not read as vanilla to others, but I always smell a soft, creamy vanilla whenever I burn oud chips. That quality is in Kinam Attar. I'm not getting any citrus or fruit just yet. Perhaps on the drydown.

    Finally, this perfume reminds me of an oud I purchased nearly a decade ago in Kerala, India, from a road-side attar shop with large pictures of Gulf royalty adorning the shop (many Gulf Arabs vacation in Kerala, it seems). That oud, whose provenance I either don't recall or was never told, smelled nearly identical to this, only much less powerful. When others (unaccustomed to oud) smelled it on me, they said that I smelled like church incense, in the best way. Not the frankincense terpene qualities, the gentle smoke and spice qualities.

    This was worth every penny. It is a treasure in my collection. I will be buying ouds and attars from Taha, and hopefully, perfumes from his next release. Now I wish I had the chance to experience Al-Jazzab and especially Soryo.
    His oils are some of the best if not THE best I’ve ever smelled. His Attars as well. I’ll be trying to sit on the next release and saving my money now for the whole collection. I’m going to work really hard and set aside enough money for a full ALD collection as well as the next Dixit and Zak and Agar Aura. Ensar is a bit too expensive to buy multiple bottles at once but I would the same if he offered multiple sub $400 in a release.

  10. #310
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Proust_Madeleine View Post
    Your review is the first one that really makes me sad to miss this. I love the creamy vanilla sweetness in gently heating Brunei chips.
    I got you rockstar, don’t fret just yet. :-)
    Currently wearing: Agar Attar by Agar Aura

  11. #311

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbloke View Post
    I’ve always been a big fan of Taha’s attars so when I heard of the first collection it was a given I’d get all 3.

    Here are my thoughts so far:
    Excellent reviews!

  12. #312
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    Default Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibiGotIt View Post
    I received my Kinam Attar earlier today. I was worried about leakage. None to be detected, thank Allah.

    First impressions: this is the most straightforward (still complex) oud EDP I've had the opportunity to try. I've never smelled kinam before, so my impressions are based on a different set of scent memories and experiences than others may have. First, I get a lot of wood, a bit of spice, vanilla and INCENSE. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the last. While other oud oils and EDPs smell animalic, leather, sour, etc., this perfume captures the scent of a gently burning oud chip more than anything I've smelled. That does not make it smoky, no, this is oud incense. I'm surprised by the vanilla qualities. This may not read as vanilla to others, but I always smell a soft, creamy vanilla whenever I burn oud chips. That quality is in Kinam Attar. I'm not getting any citrus or fruit just yet. Perhaps on the drydown.

    Finally, this perfume reminds me of an oud I purchased nearly a decade ago in Kerala, India, from a road-side attar shop with large pictures of Gulf royalty adorning the shop (many Gulf Arabs vacation in Kerala, it seems). That oud, whose provenance I either don't recall or was never told, smelled nearly identical to this, only much less powerful. When others (unaccustomed to oud) smelled it on me, they said that I smelled like church incense, in the best way. Not the frankincense terpene qualities, the gentle smoke and spice qualities.

    This was worth every penny. It is a treasure in my collection. I will be buying ouds and attars from Taha, and hopefully, perfumes from his next release. Now I wish I had the chance to experience Al-Jazzab and especially Soryo.
    Hey [mention]HabibiGotIt [/mention] i may have not actively shared it on Basenotes but look at this


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #313

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Soryo No Kaori is delicate and airy, Oud is forward, along with fresh wood shaving, I'm getting a bit of menthol but it isn't camphor, no cheese funk or barnyard of that sort. A tiny bit of zesty dark fruit type vibe somewhere, along with light incense. That's what I've perceived so far, It's very relaxing, calming type scent, made me want to just kickback with a nice single malt scotch, and just chill.

  14. #314
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hosaynmujtaba View Post
    Hey [mention]HabibiGotIt [/mention] i may have not actively shared it on Basenotes but look at this


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It is excellent. Happy you agree. Did you get any other bottles?

  15. #315

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Al-Jazzab is beautiful and stunning, getting a very prominent bergamot and some black pepper in the opening, Oud is front and center, could barely smell the rose though, not much mint or camphor either, and very little smoke or incense. Quite a potent juice but I'm surprised how light it goes on skin, not at all sticky or oily.

  16. #316

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    I received my Kinam today and all I can say is that it is amazing. I wish I'd gotten all three, but I'll enjoy this one tremendously and I'm really looking forward to what comes next.

  17. #317

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by qja View Post
    I received my Kinam today and all I can say is that it is amazing. I wish I'd gotten all three, but I'll enjoy this one tremendously and I'm really looking forward to what comes next.
    All 3 are incredible oud quality. I saw mention of Kinam Attar 2 Cambodia or something...on IG.

  18. #318
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    SOTD: Al-Jazzab. Taha has officially set the new benchmark on oriental perfumery. I own many magnificent rose/oudh perfumes - none come close to this. The oudh in this is magnificent.

    I am a fool for not purchasing the all three.
    Currently wearing: Kyara by Di Ser

  19. #319

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SOB111 View Post
    SOTD: Al-Jazzab. Taha has officially set the new benchmark on oriental perfumery. I own many magnificent rose/oudh perfumes - none come close to this. The oudh in this is magnificent.

    I am a fool for not purchasing the all three.
    Wait till you try Kinam Attar, it's out of this world!!!

  20. #320
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    Wait till you try Kinam Attar, it's out of this world!!!
    Word of warning though.... Dont wear this stuff and then try and do work during the day.... My head is spinning smelling this stuff and cant concentrate
    Currently wearing: Kyara by Di Ser

  21. #321

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SOB111 View Post
    Word of warning though.... Dont wear this stuff and then try and do work during the day.... My head is spinning smelling this stuff and cant concentrate
    Are you getting much rose from the Al-Jazzab? Most definitely Oud/Rose done right.

  22. #322
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    Are you getting much rose from the Al-Jazzab? Most definitely Oud/Rose done right.

    No, not much rose at all. I am getting more of the dark pepper /spices that others have mentioned.
    Mainly medicinal, slightly smokey oud, with hints of pepper... Rose was in the opening, but largely gone after an hour...

    There isnt any Barnyard or other "offensive" elements.... however, i think one needs to be accustomed to how real oudh smells like to appreciate these fragrances.... they are magnificent
    Currently wearing: Kyara by Di Ser

  23. #323

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SOB111 View Post
    No, not much rose at all. I am getting more of the dark pepper /spices that others have mentioned.
    Mainly medicinal, slightly smokey oud, with hints of pepper... Rose was in the opening, but largely gone after an hour...

    There isnt any Barnyard or other "offensive" elements.... however, i think one needs to be accustomed to how real oudh smells like to appreciate these fragrances.... they are magnificent
    Same here, I'm so glad it's not rose heavy....lol he is using high quality clean Oud in this for sure!

    Out of all three from this first collection, Kinam Attar has the longest lasting power, it just keep going and evolving, after 6hr it is still incredible and intoxicating, for some reason I've also perceived some ambergris, leather, and dark fruit from the far dry down, simply can't stop sniffing my arm.
    Last edited by Xcaliber6685; 21st September 2020 at 09:39 AM.

  24. #324

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dothraki View Post
    All 3 are incredible oud quality. I saw mention of Kinam Attar 2 Cambodia or something...on IG.
    I'm really looking forward to the next one, after Kinam I'm willing to try pretty much anything he makes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post

    Out of all three from this first collection, Kinam Attar has the longest lasting power, it just keep going and evolving, after 6hr it is still incredible and intoxicating, for some reason I've also perceived some ambergris, leather, and dark fruit from the far dry down, simply can't stop sniffing my arm.
    I sprayed one spray of Kinam and I can still smell it on my wrist 14 hours later! It's beautiful!

  25. #325

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by qja View Post
    I'm really looking forward to the next one, after Kinam I'm willing to try pretty much anything he makes.

    I sprayed one spray of Kinam and I can still smell it on my wrist 14 hours later! It's beautiful!
    Same here, so far I'm 13 hours in and I can still smell it from 1in away from my arm, only 1 spray as well....this stuff is killer! Al-Jazzab and Soryo No Kaori are beautiful too but nowhere near the staying power as the Kinam.

  26. #326

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    Same here, so far I'm 13 hours in and I can still smell it from 1in away from my arm, only 1 spray as well....this stuff is killer! Al-Jazzab and Soryo No Kaori are beautiful too but nowhere near the staying power as the Kinam.
    That's really interesting about the different durations, it's awesome that you got all three!

  27. #327

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by qja View Post
    That's really interesting about the different durations, it's awesome that you got all three!
    They are all special, when you're not in the mood for Oud forward fragrance and just want something lighter, ethereal, and more uplifting scent to relax and chill, then Soryo No Kaori would be my go to scent. Doing yoga, or meditation and want some zen moment? This one is it.

    if you want something more playful, complex, and more Oud forward than the Soryo, then Al-Jazzab is great for those occasion.

    When you have time to dissect, enjoy, and experience the very fine ingredients and craftsmanship of Taha, then you can't go wrong with the Kinam, it's the most complex and longest lasting out of the three, certainly would leave a big smile on your face, and you'll be very satisfied from the beginning to the very end, this is like a five course meal.

    I'd call this collection the Three Musketeers!

  28. #328
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    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    Same here, so far I'm 13 hours in and I can still smell it from 1in away from my arm, only 1 spray as well....this stuff is killer! Al-Jazzab and Soryo No Kaori are beautiful too but nowhere near the staying power as the Kinam.
    I actually found Al-Jazaab to have incredible performance on my skin. I could detect it the next morning after wearing it. The projection was insane as well. I haven’t tried any of the others but I do feel like if Al-Jazaab has the least performance of the bunch, it’s still a step ahead of most Oud based perfumes in terms of longevity.

  29. #329

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Received my package today! The package had a pretty distinct smell of smoke, which made me really worried about what I would find inside. Fortunately when opening it looked like only a really small amount has leaked. Also included was a generous (~2ml) sample of Al-Jazzab, which got me very excited. Had zero expectations of extra samples. Oh well, the smoke smell wasn't only worrisome because of the potential leakage, but also because it signalled that Soryo is a smoke heavy scent, something that some people have mentioned and some have not. Fragrances with this smoke note tend to bore me after a while.

    I have just sprayed it, and there is definitely a distinct smoke note comparable to say Bois d'Ascese or Trudon Rèvolution and the likes. But, thankfully, it quickly fades. Still noticable, but there is so much more going on here. It's ethereal, green, smoky (which is now not only tolerable but pleasant in the mix with everything else), woody, damp, moist, watery. Need to experience this more thoroughly before putting more thoughts into writing, but I'm so glad that I had the chance to try this.

    A side note - since Kinam Attar is the only one I won't be able to smell as it stands now, is there anyone in the EU who would be interested in swapping a decant of Soryo for a smaller one of Kinam Attar? Is this even OK to post here? Just say the word otherwise and I'll edit this out.

  30. #330

    Default Re: Agar Aura - Official discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Castingshadows View Post
    I actually found Al-Jazaab to have incredible performance on my skin. I could detect it the next morning after wearing it. The projection was insane as well. I haven’t tried any of the others but I do feel like if Al-Jazaab has the least performance of the bunch, it’s still a step ahead of most Oud based perfumes in terms of longevity.
    If Al-Jazzab has incredible performance on you, then the Kinam is going to be absolutely Beast mode and Nuclear on you! lol The Ouds from Al-Jazzab is definitely more prominent, punchier, and meatier/heavier than the Soryo No Kaori though, at least on my skin the Soryo has the shortest longevity of the bunch, in relative term that is. ;-)




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