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  1. #1

    Default Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Looking for some natural animalic absolute/tinctures, more specifically the Civet, Castoreum, Deer Musk, Hyraceum(Hyrax), what is the best place to get them? Not sure what size they came in, maybe 10 to 15ml?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Eden Botanical is considered one of the best.

    I recommend the isolates of tinctures for perfumery, Indole, Ambrinol, Cetalox etc it's all about consistency/repeatability for learning and absolutes are different usually. I am a minority here but I feel like naturals are to be avoided as often as possible.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    You can get castoreum and hyraceum at Hermitage Oils.
    As for the others, I wouldn't know. I haven't done the research, but I'm guessing they'll be somewhat difficult and expensive to source, given the ethical problems surrounding them. Especially the deer musk.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Junkie Mak-7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Perfumers supply house. Prices are very affordable

  5. #5

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Apothecary's Garden has some of these.

    https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/ApothecarysGarden

  6. #6

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Hermitage Essential Oils have a lot of stuff in stock that I was able to cross off of my list, everything except deer musk....guess I'll have to keep searching for that one, but I've added grey and white ambergris to my order as well. Perfumers supply house also seems to be a good alternative, the price is great too, thanks much for the all the suggestions.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    For Ambergris, Perfumer Supply House. I have only the White Gold but can say it it outstanding.

    You can also get civet absolute there.

    For civet or castoreum tinctures, I second elizadys' recommendation of Apothecary Garden.

  8. #8
    Basenotes Junkie Mak-7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Apothecary has very high price compared to PSH, thats my preferred place to shop.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    PSH does not sell castoreum tincture or civet tincture so far as I know, so I don't know how a price comparison was done on those.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    I bought 5 ml civet paste for $25, and i saw castoreum, but it might have been taken out. There is hyrax as well for like $6 for 5 ml. And all there are 100% and not tinctures, so price is just excellent.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    it would help if you could post links, because I do not grasp what you are talking about, and I shop at PSH all the time. No civet paste any time recently (I vaguely think it may have been sold briefly many years back), and no castoreum now if ever, certainly not recently. There is hyraceum but 60% not 100%, and it's $15 per 5 mL not $6.

    Are you possibly talking someplace other than Perfumer Supply House which is what here we generally mean by PSH?

  12. #12
    Basenotes Junkie Mak-7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    it would help if you could post links, because I do not grasp what you are talking about, and I shop at PSH all the time. No civet paste any time recently (I vaguely think it may have been sold briefly many years back), and no castoreum now if ever, certainly not recently. There is hyraceum but 60% not 100%, and it's $15 per 5 mL not $6.

    Are you possibly talking someplace other than Perfumer Supply House which is what here we generally mean by PSH?
    Of course.

    Civet: https://perfumersupplyhouse.com/prod...lute-robertet/

    Hyrax i purchased some beginning of this year and prob went for 2ml option but got full 5 ml bottle for $6, but even 60% is plenty with hyrax.

    Castoreum must have been taken down, since i was about to buy it, but then my friend found 300 ml at 70% in alcohol for like $20, so i bought that, and i started buying oils just last year, so wont be "years" back.

    I think that at PSH you need to go into search bar to find things that dont always show in categories.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    I never questioned the civet abs was there.

    Thank you.

    I also have sometimes been given a larger bottle by Christine than I paid for!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Hi xcaliber. If you are based in the UK I would be happy to send you samples of hyraceum, civet and castoreum absolute dilutions free of charge as I have a fair amount of them.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by amateurperfumer View Post
    Hi xcaliber. If you are based in the UK I would be happy to send you samples of hyraceum, civet and castoreum absolute dilutions free of charge as I have a fair amount of them.
    Thanks man, I would be happy to buy some from you as well since I'm here in the US.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    I've received a small order of the following animalic scent from Hermitage Essential Oils, all of them smell so weak and waterdowned, am i supposed to use the entire bottle of these on 50~100ml composition? lol These stuff are pretty damn sad.....

    White Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) - 5ml
    Hyraceum 10% Tincture - 5ml
    Grey Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) - 5ml
    Civet Paste 3.5% Tincture - 5ml
    Civet Absolute INDIA - 5ml
    Castoreum 6% Tincture - 10ml

  17. #17

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Seller on eBay I forget the name but has an amazing ambergris tincture, strong. I think it's silver or white gold, not sure what the terminology is I ran out a while back.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by chyprefresh View Post
    Seller on eBay I forget the name but has an amazing ambergris tincture, strong. I think it's silver or white gold, not sure what the terminology is I ran out a while back.
    The stuff I got is a complete joke, I don't even think they have enough concentration to make handsoap or candle, going to have to literally use gallons of these crap.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Odoralis on eBay. They are from Switzerland and good quality. Shipping is pretty slow to US though.

    Sent from my BLA-L29 using Tapatalk

  20. #20

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    I've received a small order of the following animalic scent from Hermitage Essential Oils, all of them smell so weak and waterdowned, am i supposed to use the entire bottle of these on 50~100ml composition? lol These stuff are pretty damn sad.....

    White Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) - 5ml
    Hyraceum 10% Tincture - 5ml
    Grey Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) - 5ml
    Civet Paste 3.5% Tincture - 5ml
    Civet Absolute INDIA - 5ml
    Castoreum 6% Tincture - 10ml
    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    The stuff I got is a complete joke, I don't even think they have enough concentration to make handsoap or candle, going to have to literally use gallons of these crap.
    That sounds like an even worse ripoff than the "Sacred Jasmine Sambac Absolute" from the same place which had not a single material in the GC/MS indicating any natural content whatsoever. Complete with heartstring-tugging story of the poor villagers whose very living depended on the sale of their Absolute. Plus the laborious flower gathering, etc. What a conjob that was.

    I'm sorry to hear you were ripped off. That wasn't a small order.

    The legit material would be far far stronger than you describe.

    Tinctures from Perfumer Supply House and from Apothecary's Garden have been excellent in my experience.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    If you used a credit card and if the civet and castoreum are not powerful, let alone if outright weak, do a chargeback.

    That is the only thing that those who pull cons understand. And if enough take action this way, they lose their privilege of being credit card merchants, which warns others.

    (Yes, it gets confusing when individuals sell good materials as well as bad. I know the place has also sold good or even excellent material. But that is like not stealing "most of the time." Not good enough.)

    It's not right to do a chargeback every time there's a problem, for example I got an utterly worthless sandalwood you can't even tell is sandalwood at a high price (fortunately I bought only minimum amount) from a supplier I've bought hundreds of things from successfully, so I just ate the loss, but what you've taken here is beyond acceptable. And since I know that the above will sell an obvious fake, that's simply a fact, there is no reason to cut any slack.

    Your bank will likely require you to attempt to get refund yourself first however.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    I am regularly impressed with Apothecary’s Garden on Etsy for resins and animalic materials!
    I don’t think you’ll be able to find deer musk though, at least not for an astronomical price.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    I do believe some of the grains being sold from overseas are fake, even if looking very natural to the eye and having an impressive top note effect.

    As I don't have indisputably-authentic material to compare to I don't wish to be specific as to a supplier I have a doubt on, but only to communicate that buying grains seems a gamble.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    I just received their (Hermitage Essential Oils) White Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) and I cant smell nothing. Its pretty weak.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by BonyMontana View Post
    I just received their (Hermitage Essential Oils) White Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) and I cant smell nothing. Its pretty weak.
    Glad to hear I'm not the only one, well not glad, but more like disappointed and am sorry to hear you too got scammed. everything I received from him is a complete ripped off! and not useable for perfumery, i even put a few drops of that civet and ambergris on the back of my hand....both times were barely detectable.

    I wonder if the stuff he sells is meant to be spray directly into the nasal cavity as is!! Or maybe they are made for the vaping community meant to be inhaled with a vaporizer like other e-juice.
    Last edited by Xcaliber6685; 10th October 2020 at 03:15 AM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    If you used a credit card and if the civet and castoreum are not powerful, let alone if outright weak, do a chargeback.

    That is the only thing that those who pull cons understand. And if enough take action this way, they lose their privilege of being credit card merchants, which warns others.

    (Yes, it gets confusing when individuals sell good materials as well as bad. I know the place has also sold good or even excellent material. But that is like not stealing "most of the time." Not good enough.)

    It's not right to do a chargeback every time there's a problem, for example I got an utterly worthless sandalwood you can't even tell is sandalwood at a high price (fortunately I bought only minimum amount) from a supplier I've bought hundreds of things from successfully, so I just ate the loss, but what you've taken here is beyond acceptable. And since I know that the above will sell an obvious fake, that's simply a fact, there is no reason to cut any slack.

    Your bank will likely require you to attempt to get refund yourself first however.
    Edited: I contacted the owner Adam to request for a refund, told him all these stuff are unusable for perfumery and would like to return them, he agreed to refund 237.54 Euros back to my CC once they've received everything back, glad at least it's not a total loss.
    Last edited by Xcaliber6685; 10th October 2020 at 01:44 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Hello, Adam here from Hermitage Oils. Seeing this post and reading the same issue being repeated time and time again by Bill Roberts, I feel that it might be time that also the other side of the story gets a place on this forum.

    First, on the issue of the animalic tinctures raised by Xcaliber6685, as already expressed on email, I’m clearly sorry you didn’t like the products and that you found them to be weak. If this is the first time you approach these kinds of materials and are used to working with synthetics, please take into account that none of these tinctures could have a comparable odour strength, especially as they are rather low percentage tinctures, as clearly stated in the product description of each material. If you want perfume ingredients that have a strong impact, maybe natural tinctures are just a waste of money for everybody involved and you might be happier using aroma chemicals, that should be able to live up to expectations. Or alternatively, I would suggest sourcing the raw materials and tincture them yourself at the desired strength, which can also be a nice experience in my opinion.

    On the ambergris tincture in particular, it is a very delicate scent material, and if you expect it to have the same strength of ambrofix you will be surely disappointed. Despite this, and despite being called a con person on every available occasion by Bill, we do not add ambrofix to the tincture like other operations have been doing, creating this idea among customers that true ambergris has a very strong oceanic scent. At 3% this is not true, and if it does, I would be suspicious. An alternative could be finding somebody who sells a folded material, but it would be crazily expensive, or once again aroma chemicals could be what does the job without breaking the bank.

    Moving onto other issues that I see being mentioned by Bill, as for the cock roach comment, it was wrong of me to say that. It was said in the heat of the moment when I had just discovered that what I thought was my business partner at the time had gone behind my back. Not an excuse to call somebody names by any means and I am sorry that happened, more so as until that moment I thought we were friends, but the fact that I was stabbed in the back stands. For its worth though, I think that at this point we have both moved on.

    Moving onto the sacred jasmine issue, back in the days when the product was sampled, concerns on its legitimacy were actually raised by myself because the absolute smelled unusual for a sambac. I was silenced by the supplier, a very well respected European vendor of Organic Essential oils that at the time was exploring the possibility of offering absolutes as well. I was also reassured by a perfumer that used to write on this forum, who sampled it, saw the paperwork and he absolutely loved the product. His wealth of knowledge was such that my mind was then put at ease. All the information that I had available at the time, including the GC/MS results were published on my website. These results were not kept secret and exposed afterwards, they were always public on the products page. That should make anyone reading realise that it was a bad mistake made in good faith and due to my inexperience at the time, for which I take responsibility and which has resulted in me no longer working with that supplier, whose reputation by the way has remained perfectly intact. Ultimately, however, it was my decision to sell the product and I should have known better, but what is genuinely offensive here and sometimes bordering on libel is this constant suggestion that I am out there to “steal” and “con” people, which I guess would make me a terrible con man because if my intention was to deceive, why would I publish the GC/MS for that product?

    One last comment on the Mumsy tinctures deal mentioned on the other post, where Bill is suggesting that I have offended her. If that is the case then I have no issues saying sorry for that because it couldn’t have been further from my intentions. Simply, her products were not financially viable for me to resell, regardless of how nice she is as a person. When running a business the decisions must make sense business wise and that unfortunately just wasn’t the case in that instance, more so because despite having a quite large catalogue we are a tiny operation, and we cannot function on selling products with insufficient margins in place.

    Hopefully this can bring some balance to this conversation. Thanks, Adam

  28. #28

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Thanks for the brutal honestly HermitageOils, everyone should have the right to defend themselves on Basenotes, imo. As long as the drama is nipped in the bud or dealt with in private. You make good points, real ambergris is a very hard-to-gauge material. You can't blame some for adding ambroxan to theirs to prevent complaints lol.

    I won't comment on anything further, it's not my fight to lose.
    Last edited by chyprefresh; 10th October 2020 at 10:02 PM.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Adam, to be clear on your "Sacred Jasmine Sambac Absolute":

    Not only was it an instantly-obvious patent fake from your own GC/MS -- even the most novice person knows real jasmine absolute isn't built from hexyl cinnamic aldehyde and Hedione -- but I informed you of it at the time in a very respectful way, citing which components of it do not occur in jasmine and naming components always found in natural jasmine but lacking in the GC/MS.I provided you at least one source to check the truth of what I said, and further suggested if doubting me, ask anyone who is familiar with GC/MS's of jasmine.

    You continued selling it for a long time with the same claims anyway.

    Each can determine as they see fit from those facts.

    I will add that in my e-mail to you I made clear to portray it with no assumption you knew it was fake, instead as something needing to be brought to your attention. However, I will say now that if anyone in the essential oils business for decades says they really believed that GC/MS was of genuine product, there are really only 2 conclusions one can arrive at from that. Neither leaves the buyer able to trust.

    It may be that the two people who have posted recently about receiving what they perceive as worthless simply don't know what they are talking about, or it may be that you sent them patently bad stuff. You have of course also -- which I have said many times -- often sent very good stuff by other people's reports. I have never said everything you sell was bad, quite the contrary, but rather that clearly stuff is sold which is either outright fake and you had basis to know was fake, and otherwise poor.

    I didn't say Mumsy was offended by your statement. I said that your characterization there as well as your calling your suppliers "cockroaches" was enough for me, personally, to come to my conclusion even without fake, adulterated, or over-diluted products sometimes being sold as well.

    I saw what your markups were on aromachems back when you were selling them, as I know per kilo prices, far higher than anyone else in the business, so on top of the fact I would have disliked that characterization no matter what, I found it hypocritical.

    One type of person finds an offered price they don't, for business reasons, want to pay and they leave it at that. Another publicly uses the word "greedy."

    One type of person has a business trouble and handles it one way, another publicly labels his suppliers generally, or anyone, I wouldn't like it no matter who it was, as "cockroaches."

    Each can come to their opinion, I don't say mine is the only one, but I do say the facts I have related are indeed facts on the fake "jasmine" absolute sold at high price with fake story, the quotes I cite are real, and the other reports of bad product have indeed been made.

    And it is a fact that personally I don't see those things from other suppliers well known on this forum.

    You have at least addressed the fake jasmine issue for the first time (so far as I know: it's been in at least one thread you've participated in before but you did not address it.) So that is a good thing.

    I believe I have brought out everything necessary on that point and will not be replying further if you do. I do hope you fully refund the people sent tinctures they find absurdly weak, which for example genuine civet or castoreum tinctures at the claimed percentages absolutely will not be, and take down the bad product, unlike with the "Sacred Jasmine Sambac Absolute" which you did not take down.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Where can i get some animalic tinctures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber6685 View Post
    I've received a small order of the following animalic scent from Hermitage Essential Oils, all of them smell so weak and waterdowned, am i supposed to use the entire bottle of these on 50~100ml composition? lol These stuff are pretty damn sad.....

    White Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) - 5ml
    Hyraceum 10% Tincture - 5ml
    Grey Ambergris 3% Tincture (IRELAND) - 5ml
    Civet Paste 3.5% Tincture - 5ml
    Civet Absolute INDIA - 5ml
    Castoreum 6% Tincture - 10ml
    You aren't a perfumer and you don't know how to use these materials. In these concentrations, these are meant as fixatives and exaltants.

    Not sure what you are trying to do with these materials. I take it you don't feel your ALDs or whatever are animalic enough and you want to layer with these materials? You'd have to make your own high concentration tinctures or macerations to do that. But even then, unless you know what you are doing, it will be a waste of time and money.




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